Accented Hair Kennedy Question

LeeG · July 16, 2007 6:25AM

Someones hoping for an upgrade. Looks pretty rough to me and a tough one to clean up to get the upgrade. Do you agree?

Accented Hair Kennedy

Connecticoin · July 16, 2007 6:30AM

Obverse looks hazed, reverse looks like bleeding of artifical frost.

Russ · July 16, 2007 6:33AM

It's one I've been watching since it was in the "upcoming" section. I believe that the haze was caused by submission in a bad flip, and that it can be corrected. However, the risk here is that the haze developed after it was graded and that it went PR65 due to hairlines.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · July 16, 2007 6:35AM

<< Obverse looks hazed, reverse looks like bleeding of artifical frost. >>

I had that initial impression, but after extensive close scrutiny I concluded that it isn't artificially frosted.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 6:36AM

<< I believe that the haze was caused by submission in a bad flip, and that it can be corrected.

Russ, NCNE >>

Soooo ... does that mean soak it in acetone to make it look better? Just like NCS does?

Paging Dr. Russ, paging Dr. Russ ... we need a coin doctored STAT!

Russ · July 16, 2007 6:37AM

PS: The price it's at currently, $805, is still less than the last PR65DCAM sold on eBay.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · July 16, 2007 6:39AM

<< <>

Soooo ... does that mean soak it in acetone to make it look better? Just like NCS does?

Paging Dr. Russ, paging Dr. Russ ... we need a coin doctored STAT! >>

Drop dead, moron.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 6:49AM

<< Drop dead, moron.

Russ, NCNE >>

Ooops ... my mistake. I guess that dipping coins to alter the surfaces and make them look shiny and new isn't coin doctoring after all ... hypocrite.

Russ · July 16, 2007 6:51AM

On second thought, telling you to drop dead was wrong. If you dropped dead, all the dealers that have been bending you over would miss their Ferrari payments.

Russ, NCNE

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 7:00AM

Well Russ, you can have it... I have bigger fish to fry!!

Connecticoin · July 16, 2007 7:05AM

<< 

<< Drop dead, moron.

Russ, NCNE >>

Ooops ... my mistake. I guess that dipping coins to alter the surfaces and make them look shiny and new isn't coin doctoring after all ... hypocrite.

>>

Seriously, you are totally clueless in the instance.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 7:10AM

<< On second thought, telling you to drop dead was wrong. If you dropped dead, all the dealers that have been bending you over would miss their Ferrari payments.

Russ, NCNE >>

Hmmmm, since those are the only dealers that I have done business with in the last year are Don Rinkor, Steve Twitty, Legend, RCNH, Coin Rarities Online, Anaconda, and McIntosh, I guess that you must be referring to them. Those B4st4rds sure have set me up with some crappy coins! You are right ... I will forego their expertise and start listening to you. Maybe I'll just staring hoarding the dipped and stripped moderns that you brag about doctoring ...

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 7:11AM

<< Seriously, you are totally clueless in the instance. >>

I know, I know ... it is OK because Russ is doing the doctoring this time

Connecticoin · July 16, 2007 7:15AM

<< 

<< Seriously, you are totally clueless in the instance. >>

I know, I know ... it is OK because Russ is doing the doctoring this time

>>

Absolutely not. Rick Tomaska would likely say you are clueless as well.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 11:32AM

Hmmm ... this thread has been up for 5 hours now and no dealers have showed up to condone Russ' dipping and stripping. Why is that???

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 11:37AM

<< Hmmm ... this thread has been up for 5 hours now and no dealers have showed up to condone Russ' dipping and stripping. Why is that??? >>

Giving a proof a bath in MS-70 (soap) and a acetone rinse is not dipping and stripping.

Russ · July 16, 2007 11:46AM

<< << Hmmm ... this thread has been up for 5 hours now and no dealers have showed up to condone Russ' dipping and stripping. Why is that??? >>

Giving a proof a bath in MS-70 (soap) and a acetone rinse is not dipping and stripping. >>

Just one more indication of how utterly clueless this chump is about coins.

Russ, NCNE

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 11:54AM

Oh Fletcher!!!

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 11:58AM

Well Russ. On BB's site you stated:

"From: Russ (Mon 16 Jul 15:35:06 2007)
Real collector? LOL! He's a clueless nitwit with a fat wallet, and an empty head. The dealers salivate like Pavlov's dogs every time they see him. He's been screwed more times than Paris Hilton."

Care to back that up??? Please name ONE coin that a dealer has screwed me with! JUST ONE!!! Put your money where your mouth is handsome. What's that ... once again you have nothing substantive to back up your Elmo with??? Typical ... now go doctor some more Kennedies for eBay YA BIG STUD!!!

Russ · July 16, 2007 12:02PM

You've been screwed so many times, it's tough to pick just one. How about that obviously cleaned "original" Bust you posted?

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:04PM

<< Giving a proof a bath in MS-70 (soap) and a acetone rinse is not dipping and stripping. >>

Definition from the PCGS lingo page:

"Dipped" = A term applied to a coin that has been placed in a commercial "dip" solution, a mild acid wash that removes the toning from most coins. Some dip solutions employ other chemicals, such as bases, to accomplish a similar result. The first few layers of metal are removed with every dip, so coins repeatedly dipped will lose luster, hence the term "overdipped".

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:04PM

<< You've been screwed so many times, it's tough to pick just one. How about that obviously cleaned "original" Bust you posted?

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, you'll be eating crow when Laura personally puts a CAC seal of approval on it!!!

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:05PM

<< 

<< Giving a proof a bath in MS-70 (soap) and a acetone rinse is not dipping and stripping. >>

Definition from the PCGS lingo page:

"Dipped" = A term applied to a coin that has been placed in a commercial "dip" solution, a mild acid wash that removes the toning from most coins. Some dip solutions employ other chemicals, such as bases, to accomplish a similar result. The first few layers of metal are removed with every dip, so coins repeatedly dipped will lose luster, hence the term "overdipped". >>

There is no ACID in MS70 or in acetone.

Russ · July 16, 2007 12:06PM

I'm not too worried. Most of the stuff the chump has bought wouldn't even make it past the receptionist.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:06PM

<< You've been screwed so many times, it's tough to pick just one. How about that obviously cleaned "original" Bust you posted?

Russ, NCNE >>

No dealer sold me that coin ... and, I sold it for a profit. Like I said, please name ONE coin that a dealer has screwed me with! JUST ONE!!! You can't can you??? That is because you are full of crap ...

Russ · July 16, 2007 12:10PM

<< No dealer sold me that coin ... and, I sold it for a profit. >>

Ah, so you got screwed and then screwed the next guy. No surprise there.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:14PM

Keep trying to turn this around Doctor Russ ... you still have not answered the question or provided any evidence to substantiate your lies. Still waiting ...

Russ · July 16, 2007 12:18PM

<< Keep trying to turn this around Doctor Russ ... you still have not answered the question or provided any evidence to substantiate your lies. Still waiting .. >>

My gawd, you're stupid. First, removing haze from a modern proof is not coin doctoring. If you hadn't just fell off the turnip truck less than two years ago by buying a $10,000 "unsearched" lot on eBay, you'd know that. And second, if you didn't buy all these crap coins you posted in the past from dealers, where did they come from? The tooth fairy?

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:19PM

Still waiting for any dealers to chime in and applaud the use of "MS-70 Industrial Strength Coin Brightener" and Acetone "the strongest consumer-grade solvent available." Anyone???

TAClough · July 16, 2007 12:20PM

Words of advice that my great granfather told me would apply here Russ: "Don't get into a pissing contest with a 'skunk', it is a no win situation"

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:21PM

<< Still waiting for any dealers to chime in and applaud the use of "MS-70 Industrial Strength Coin Brightener" and Acetone "the strongest consumer-grade solvent available." Anyone??? >>

Dealers like jewelluster better

Russ · July 16, 2007 12:22PM

<< Words of advice that my great granfather told me would apply here Russ: "Don't get into a pissing contest with a 'skunk', it is a no win situation" >>

Yeah, you're right. I'm heading home for the evening anyway, so he'll just have to play with himself.

Russ, NCNE

StrikeOutXXX · July 16, 2007 12:22PM

<< Still waiting for any dealers to chime in and applaud the use of "MS-70 Industrial Strength Coin Brightener" and Acetone "the strongest consumer-grade solvent available." Anyone??? >>

I'm not a dealer, but acetone has come in handy to take some masking tape residue off a circulated Barber quarter, and some green gunk off one of my son's large cents. Think I tried it on some metal detecting Indian Head cents too. I didn't think the majority of the industry considered Acetone in a negative manner. I didn't think it reacted with the coin at all. No idea on MS-70.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:23PM

<< First, removing haze from a modern proof is not coin doctoring.

Russ, NCNE >>

Hmmm ... PCGS provides the following definition: "Doctored = Term used for a numismatic item that has been enhanced by chemical or other means. Usually, this is used in a derogatory way."

I guess that must not apply to you ... or maybe it just doesn't apply to Kennedies??? Interesting

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:25PM

There isn't no better sight than dealers at a show lined up in the bathroom dipping coins! Then running them to PCGS for $100 walk throughs.

Mixing MS70 and water is not dipping coins. Geeze.

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:26PM

<< 

<< First, removing haze from a modern proof is not coin doctoring.

Russ, NCNE >>

Hmmm ... PCGS provides the following definition: "Doctored = Term used for a numismatic item that has been enhanced by chemical or other means. Usually, this is used in a derogatory way."

I guess that must not apply to you ... or maybe it just doesn't apply to Kennedies??? Interesting

>>

So what you are saying is that any person who has used acetone, MS70 or dip on a coin is a coin doctor?

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:27PM

<< Words of advice that my great granfather told me would apply here Russ: "Don't get into a pissing contest with a 'skunk', it is a no win situation"

>>

Well, there you go Russ ... you have another satisfied client

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:29PM

Answer my question please.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:33PM

<< So what you are saying is that any person who has used acetone, MS70 or dip on a coin is a coin doctor? >>

No, please stick to the facts and do not make things up. I said Russ is a coin doctor for using, and for advocating the use of, the chemicals "MS-70 Industrial Strength Coin Brightener" and "Acetone" to artificially enhance the surfaces of of coins. However, he says that it is not coin doctoring because they are modern proofs and I am seeking confirmation of his assertion by any credible dealer. None have come forth as of yet ...

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:35PM

<< 

<< So what you are saying is that any person who has used acetone, MS70 or dip on a coin is a coin doctor? >>

No, please stick to the facts and do not make things up. I said Russ is a coin doctor for using, and for advocating the use of, the chemicals "MS-70 Industrial Strength Coin Brightener" and "Acetone" to artificially enhance the surfaces of of coins. However, he says that it is not coin doctoring because they are modern proofs and I am seeking confirmation of his assertion by any credible dealer. None have come forth as of yet ... >>

Hmmmm, I'm a PCGS and NGC dealer and I also use MS-70 (with water) and acetone on proofs to remove haze. I guess I'm just not credible.

jmski52 · July 16, 2007 12:39PM

I don't know the composition of MS-70, however, acetone won't damage a coin. It will remove oils, waxes, pvc, crayon, grease, tar, some resins. I can state definitively that acetone would not be categorized as "cleaning" per your PCGS definition.

Oh, and I am a chemist, or at least I used to be one.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:39PM

<< I guess I'm just not credible.

>>

If the shoe fits ...

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:40PM

<< 

<< I guess I'm just not credible.

>>

If the shoe fits ... >>

Your opinion.

Fletcher · July 16, 2007 12:41PM

<< 

<< 

<< I guess I'm just not credible.

>>

If the shoe fits ... >>

Your opinion. >>

I never claimed it to be anything else

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:43PM

So if Russ is a coin doctor becuase he uses MS70 and Acetone, does that mean that everyone who has used MS70 or acetone is a coin doctor?

LeeG · July 16, 2007 12:48PM

To those that this concerns:

Take it somewhere else. Don't need, or want, it in any of my posts.

Thank You

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:51PM

Sorry Lee. I was a bidder on the AH, but I'll leave it for Russ.

jmski52 · July 16, 2007 12:52PM

The germaine point in this discussion ought to be the proper care and preservation of a coin. If I knew that I had a layer of pvc on a really nice silver proof coin that resulted in a hazed appearance, I wouldn't hesitate a split second in getting that crap off of my coin (with acetone, incidently). The point is, that any pvc on a coin is not finished doing its damage.

And Fletcher, same goes for a pvc film on any of your nice coppers. If you don't want to see a significant part of your investment go down the tubes, keep monitoring your coins, store them in an inert environment (preferably in Intercept Shield boxes) and read Susan Maltby's column in Coin World from time to time - she's got good stuff. If you were to have a pvc deposit on an important copper, acetone would be the removal agent of choice.

tmot99 · July 16, 2007 12:56PM

Fletcher, following the definition that you chose from the PCGS site, MS70 nor acetone remove any part of the coin's surface. Acetone is a very strong solvent. You are absolutely correct. Too bad it has no effect on most metals.

MadMarty · July 16, 2007 12:58PM

<< Fletcher, following the definition that you chose from the PCGS site, MS70 nor acetone remove any part of the coin's surface. Acetone is a very strong solvent. You are absolutely correct. Too bad it has no effect on most metals. >>

You should try some, fill a glass bowl up to the top, light up a nice cuban cigar and have at it...

DUIGUY · July 16, 2007 1:05PM

OH MY !

MY! MY! MY!

Accented Hair Kennedy Question

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