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Is it ever affordable to buy from Heritage?
MajorDuty
Posts: 1,998
To expand on that vague question, when you consider the buyer's premiums which appear to be 20%, and if we are not talking an ultra rare coin but say a nice commemorative, or any other coin you can get from other sources, can one ever purchase coins from Heritage and not pay many dollars over market average?
I'm sure there are those stories of people scoring decent deals here and there, but I'm wondering, in general, is it worth it to shop for coins from Heritage if you can get the same coin elsewhere where they won't sell the coin out from under you at a live floor auction and where you don't have to pay that large buyer's premium.
I've always skipped by Heritage's auctions mostly because I didn't want to "bother" with signing up with them, but time and time again I see coins I'd like to bid on, but frankly I just don't see how one could get a coin at a fair price when you add everything up, but I don't know because I've never done it so I'm asking the experts here.
To narrow the target coins down a bit, I'm specifically talking about commemoratives in the $300 - $600 range or so. Heritage has a plethora of sweet commemoratives up for auction now, btw.
I'm sure there are those stories of people scoring decent deals here and there, but I'm wondering, in general, is it worth it to shop for coins from Heritage if you can get the same coin elsewhere where they won't sell the coin out from under you at a live floor auction and where you don't have to pay that large buyer's premium.
I've always skipped by Heritage's auctions mostly because I didn't want to "bother" with signing up with them, but time and time again I see coins I'd like to bid on, but frankly I just don't see how one could get a coin at a fair price when you add everything up, but I don't know because I've never done it so I'm asking the experts here.
To narrow the target coins down a bit, I'm specifically talking about commemoratives in the $300 - $600 range or so. Heritage has a plethora of sweet commemoratives up for auction now, btw.
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Don't forget to check the Heritage Final Session auctions, where you might be able to find a better deal than at their signature sales for that particular area.
Coin Rarities Online
Why does this major misconception still live on? Buyer's do not pay the "buyer's premium," the seller does. The buyer, if intelligent, backs off his bid by the typical 15%. At least this is how 99% of the auction bidders do it.
Auction houses are where many of the sharpest dealers shop. They would prefer that you don't show up or bid on line. If it wasn't affordable (ie they can buy at wholesale levels) why would they go?
Heritage handles tons of slabs, esp commems. If you want to get decent commems cheap, I can't think of a better source.
Final answer: it is often very affordable to shop Heritage and other auction houses. Typical prices realized are often low to high wholesale.
roadrunner
The rarer the item, the less of a "market" that there is.
When you find a coin that is acceptable for your collection, figure out the fair retail value for the coin, or the value that you do not wish to exceed, multiply it by .86 and execute it on either the Heritage site or wherever you found it.
Virtually all of the internet auction sites are computer driven and you should either be able to save some money, buy it, or lose it to someone that liked the coin more than you did.
The reason that I used .86 is that after adding the 15% and a little for postage, that should get you to the price that you had previously decided on.
Heritage is one of the best numismatic auction sites, if not the best, and I can promise you that they do not fool around with the bids. I have utilized the web site for bidding myself.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Just remember to view the coins in person and remember that you don't get a return privilege.
<< <i>Heritage and TT suck if you're in California
Great responses. Thank you.
I am in CA. Why does it (Heritage) suck then?
<< <i>Heritage and TT suck if you're in California
I agree!!! An 8.25% tax can make it hard to compete in some bids!!!
<< <i>Taxes for those in CA. Hasn't stopped me from buying from them in the past but it is annoying. >>
Not sure about California, but in Texas the 8.25% tax does not apply to invoiced amounts over $1000. So if I'm going to spend several hundred there anyway, I usually do a little more shopping to kick me just over a grand.
<< <i>I can't comment on your commemoratives but auction houses are the single best place to procure coins. Heritage, Superior, Stacks, Bowers & Merena, and Goldberg are all top notch. Just check their selling policies before plunging in, and remember don't be concerned with the fees charged by the auction houses for selling the coins for the seller, just beconcerned with the price you end up paying. Also this is the vehicle that dealers use to buy their inventory, don't you want to buy it before the dealers get their hands on it and then bumping it up by some %? >>
If you are unable to find that much at one time, then ask the auction house if they can sell you a gift certificate for $1000 and just deduct your purchases from that.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>
<< <i>Taxes for those in CA. Hasn't stopped me from buying from them in the past but it is annoying. >>
Not sure about California, but in Texas the 8.25% tax does not apply to invoiced amounts over $1000. So if I'm going to spend several hundred there anyway, I usually do a little more shopping to kick me just over a grand. >>
California, too. Twice I've won coins from Heritage where the total including BP came out to $977.50. If they'd round it up to $1000, I'd end up paying less, and Heritage would get more. But they said no to me
<< <i>If you are unable to find that much at one time, then ask the auction house if they can sell you a gift certificate for $1000 and just deduct your purchases from that. >>
I don't think that works. Gift certificates are typically not taxable at all, but the items you purchase with them are.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are unable to find that much at one time, then ask the auction house if they can sell you a gift certificate for $1000 and just deduct your purchases from that. >>
I don't think that works. Gift certificates are typically not taxable at all, but the items you purchase with them are. >>
So you pay $1000 for the gift certificate and buy a $600 coin on it. Your certificate will get charged $600 + the sales tax.
Not for me. I have to pay an additional 8.25% on invoices below $1000. I dont even go to their web site to look for coins unless I get a the money and desire to buy a $1500+ coin.... and then they rarely have what I want. And on that rare occasion that they do, I either have to wait 20 days to see if I'm going to win the auction, or it's at some laughably high buy-now price.
-David
I always add the $9 minimum buyers premium to get final value - these are common coins - all with 6 completed comparables in the last 30 days
much to my surprise, 3 were outbid -
I checked the outbids again to see if I could justify bumping my bid a few dollars
I did on 2 - making them $5 to $7 higher than top sales price in last month (on coins that have been selling at $20-$30 - >NGC pop 2000 with 1000 higher)
still outbid - I hope the only item I am high bidder on gets bumped up as well
does anyone know about regulatory agencies that check up on auction houses and shill bidding? a huge retailer/auctioneer could make thousands more every day just by bumping up bids on their "no reserve" auctions
PS - I have gotten some nice coins from there before but can't remember how many have been for below my maximum bid
I am not making any libelous accusations but just curious
(as well as if this post will still be here on Wednesday because of the business relationship Heritage has with PCGS - I wonder how many millions of dollars in business the Omaha Bank Hoard has brought PCGS and NGC)
As usual...great practical advice from Julian on how to set your bids. I like the .86 multiplier idea. My method was a little more complex...but unecessarily so. His 'back of the envelope' way of arriving at the correct amount to bid is simple, easy to use, and gets you to the correct result 100% of the time.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Like Cramer says: "don't buy, don't buy, don't buy".
(Yeah, I am a cheapskate!)
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>does anyone know about regulatory agencies that check up on auction houses and shill bidding? a huge retailer/auctioneer could make thousands more every day just by bumping up bids on their "no reserve" auctions >>
Because it is not worth what would happen to them if they were ever caught at it. What would happen to a major auction houses sales if it became widely known that they regularly shilled their own auctions? Who would bid? And then who would consign?