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If PCGS holders are more desireable than NGC holders, is it reasonable to assume...
ram1946
Posts: 762 ✭✭
...that coins residing in NGC holders offered by quality, knowledgeable dealers will not upgrade at PCGS? In other words, is the existing NGC grade the pinnacle of success for that coin? I'm not suggesting that an NGC coin can't cross at a higher grade, only that the quality, knowledgeable dealer/collector has determined the coin has reached the high point in the food chain of grading. Consequently, it will be offered in the NGC holder rather than attempt to cross to PCGS and (presumably) command more money.
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<< <i>...that coins residing in NGC holders offered by quality, knowledgeable dealers will not upgrade at PCGS? In other words, is the existing NGC grade the pinnacle of success for that coin? I'm not suggesting that an NGC coin can't cross at a higher grade, only that the quality, knowledgeable dealer/collector has determined the coin has reached the high point in the food chain of grading. Consequently, it will be offered in the NGC holder rather than attempt to cross to PCGS and (presumably) command more money. >>
Not necessarily. For one thing, even if you like Kool-Aid, not all series are alike. There are some for which NGC and PCGS are more or less equal. And then there are others where PCGS is a lot tighter.
(Interestingly, aside from relative tightness, I find NGC to be more *consistent*.)
You need to know the series and know your coins and know your own grading. Yes, an NGC coin has to be really "all the shiznit" to cross over to PCGS in the holder.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
You buy 1 coin at a time (presumably) - I'd suggest evaluating that 1 coin on it's own merits.
I did not read anything you typed after the title.
<< <i>okay so I know I'm new and will get crap for this...what the heck does kool-aid mean? >>
It's a tasty beverage that was popular in Jonestown.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>okay so I know I'm new and will get crap for this...what the heck does kool-aid mean? >>
Drink the Kool-Aid
<< <i>Your premise is wrong and therefor everything you type following that incorrect premise is flawed. >>
His premise is perfectly correct. PCGS holders are more desirable than NGC holders. The plastic is clearer than NGC, and the coins don't get buried in a thick white insert.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Your premise is wrong and therefor everything you type following that incorrect premise is flawed. >>
His premise is perfectly correct. PCGS holders are more desirable than NGC holders. The plastic is clearer than NGC, and the coins don't get buried in a thick white insert.
Russ, NCNE >>
You know something Russ, you are totally correct.
I did not read past the title and assumed (now now...) that the KoolAid was just flowing strong. If the subject is the plastic itself--hands down you are right, PCGS makes a much better slab.
I apologize.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Well, that wasn't actually his premise.
Russ, NCNE >>
Please Russ....don't make me read the post........
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Yep, that's what I asked. >>
Great! I stand by my answer.
You see a raw key coin worth $5K on ebay (unknown seller) in the grade they claim and based on the photo it looks good but it's selling for $2K. Do you assume that the coin might have been already sent in for grading but got a low grade or BB for some reason that you can't see the reason in the photo (or they made sure you can't see the problem) so the seller thinks it will get more raw?
<< <i>Do you assume that the coin might have been already sent in for grading but got a low grade or BB for some reason that you can't see the reason in the photo >>
Yep.
Russ, NCNE
Seems dissimilar to me.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Who is John Galt?
<< <i>Seems dissimilar to me. >>
Go drink your kool aid!
It's a very similar thing, the seller is trying to get the max for the coin in the holder of choice or raw if he thinks that will achieve the best sale price.
Freebies get used across the street a lot more than here !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The premise is either true or not regardless of a prospective buyer's grading eye. I guarantee that there are coins graded by NGC in the inventories of knowledgeable dealers that will cross to PCGS.
Edited to add: And I just bought a coin in an NGC holder at a price higher than PCGS guide.
And one more edit for the Grumpy One:
Many sharp and competent grading dealers are ok with selling an
all-there NGC coin for all the money......no need to cross it. And a knowledgeable buyer will come by and be more than happy to find that coin. You got an NGC MS64 1839 no drapery that looks great for the grade? NO need to cross it. It will bring all the money.
You can have an excellent coin for the grade worthy of upgrading and many sharp dealers (including crackout dealers) will pass on that coin for whatever reason. This happened to me on a couple of coins recently where lots of the best dealers passed, ones that I considered to be in the top 50 graders. Each of these coins eventually upgraded and crossed over. So why did those earlier players pass on these coins? Who knows? But they did not see the opportunity that at least one other dealer did.
The only thing you can say about upgrades, downgrades and crossovers is that there are no set rules. There are certainly trends.....but no hard and fast rules by any stretch. It still comes down to the coin whether it looks good or not in the white plastic.
When it comes down to choosing between PCGS or NGC in the same plastic.....I'll choose the better coin most every time, and most others here would do as well......at least I hope they would. And there are dealers that basically shun NGC coins because they are a tougher sell to a newbie or REG set collector.
The fact that I've never been able to personally cross a seated coin from NGC to PCGS speaks volumes imo. Yet I've had no trouble getting upgrades at PCGS on both cracked out PCGS and NGC coins. I also have had no problems selling nicer NGC coins for PCGS-type money. What really matters to me is that a lot of PCGS and NGC coins don't cross to roadrunner standards.
roadrunner
<< <i>The fact that I've never been able to personally cross a seated coin from NGC to PCGS speaks volumes imo. >>
Why is this, was it because of how they each grade differently within a serries?
And in that case, the coins would be worth much more than if they crossed.
It also may be that since 95% of my lifetime submittals have been toned coins sent strictly to NGC, that my eye is biased towards coins NGC tends to like, and PCGS tends to discount. Yet at the same time, PCGS is not necessarily the voice of the market when it comes to paying up for a gem toned type coin. PCGS would often rather see that kind of coin stark and blazing white.
roadrunner
<< <i>I have had several coins in NGC holders upgrade at PCGS. >>
Precisely. And some cross straight across the board. The most beautiful thing about PCGS is that they won't crack it out if it will cost you money because it doesn't cross. It's true, we still pay the fee as it's looked at and determined, but .... at least we don't get "downgraded" unless we specifically ask to "cross at any grade". PCGS offers some real advantages and so does NGC. We are fortunate in our country to have PCI, ANACS, and ICG, too.
Now , if we could all get together for the STANDARDIZATION of grading.
I got it all worked out in my head.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Too bad it is a party of one.
<< <i>I got it all worked out in my head.
Too bad it is a party of one. >>
funny;
LOL
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Your best NGC and PCGS graders already know how to grade the same. There is essentially no difference in their skill levels. You could probably swap them between services without anyone knowing. Either could pick up the nuances of the other in short order. But it doesn't happen. Everything is in place to allow it to happen. And it would not be hard to let it happen....other than it would be negative to each company's overall business model.
roadrunner