I looked at eBay last night. In the Eisenhower dollars there were a set of 4 1972 type 2's for sale (including 1 D!) and 2 offerings for a pair of type 2.
The pictures don't look like 2's to me. Maybe the type 2 is king. There are pretenders to the throne around.
<< <i><<I have no doubt at all that this "pattern" die was intended for proof production in San Francisco and inadvertantly shipped to Denver.>>
Lee, I am going to nitpick one word there. San Francisco sent so much stuff that shouldn't have been used at Denver to Denver, that I doubt that it was an accident. Creative accounting or inventory control might be more like it. We can't use it here so ship it out and take a credit. Denver actually using these items might have been inadvertent. They certainly did regret using the quarter planchets on dime stock obtained from San Francisco (1970).
There are other very interesting items likely originating from San Francisco. There was a 1971-D quarter produced from a proof artwork reverse (type die with a die gouge. I find this artwork very obvious to the naked eye and can distinguish the high relief coin by touch alone. It is also very scarce. Likewise there is a similiar 1972-D quarter. Just think, these are the same years as the FEP and the 1972- P type 2. >>
PAC, you know your proof artwork! I'm going to bump this thread to Herbert Hicks who has had a passion for the 1971-D and 1972-D proof artwork quarters in case he is not aware of your interest and expertise.
"The Ike Group" will have a lot to say about the reverse of the 1972 TYPE 2 Ike in an up-comming article if our research doesn't throw us a curve ball at the last minute.
Returning to the FEP, since there are at least 4 different "D" Mintmark placements and at least that many DD versions, it is challenging to explain the scarcity of the DD versions.
DRG, the FEP Guru and also a member of The Ike Group, wrote in another FEP thread that there are several possible explanations including the Denver Mint pulling much of the mintage but it remains one heck of an open-ended question!
I am reasonably certain that no FEPs were minted at the Philly mint (unless subsequently shipped to Denver for distribution) (the Philly Mint had a four chamber testing room were many dies were tested through full die runs: if the coins looked OK, they were released into circulation (Mike Lantz, personal communication) as there are darn few FEP's kicking around on the East Coast except down South (GA and FL FRB's were often supplied by the Denver Mint). Rob
Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....
Reminds me of trying to see the buck teeth on a 55 Bugs Bunny Franklin. I need a science microscope and it takes me an hour to see it. If I don't see it with the naked eye,its el paso.
<< <i>Reminds me of trying to see the buck teeth on a 55 Bugs Bunny Franklin. I need a science microscope and it takes me an hour to see it. If I don't see it with the naked eye,its el paso. >>
The FEP is a remarkable Ike in part because it is SO EASILY PICKED OUT OF A PILE OF IKES WITHOUT A LOUPE, let alone a microscope.
(Sorry 'bout the CAPS, got carried away...)
As DRG pointed, the large Gulf of Mexico is easy to see, the absence of a brow line is easy to see, the more southern-pointing Florida is easy to see, the exaggerated "teeth" on the lower right crater jump right out and the string of islands seals the deal.
Of course, you do have to look: actually, please don't , more for the rest of us to find Rob
Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....
<< <i>However, this someone (TDN) based their opinion solely on looking at pictures and he has little if any experience with the Eisenhower varieties
You're right - I forgot you modern guys embrace varieties that require significant magnification to spot. Something discernable with the naked eye, no matter how minor, is cause celebre' >>
Totally unfair. I like the Wisconsin extra leaves I have found that many modern AND classic collectors like varities that require significant magnification.
If you are going to throw stones, don't aim at just one house around here if both are well lived in
The type 2 islands are incuse, mere dimples in the sea, not in relief like the other types. They are there, but I find them somewhat hard to see on an actual coin. They seem to show up better on photos. To a first approximation for me, "no islands" is a type 2.
Therefore I recommend caution on the current ebay offering of a type 2 whose claim to fame is "islands below Florida". These look a lot like a type 1. This is being sold "as is" with a starting price of $9.99. I note items like this seldom get any bids.
You are very right in your observation so you need to look at more than just the islands. Look closely and compare the shape of Florida. You should see that Florida has a somewhat triangular or tornado shape to the Type 2 which is unique to the coin.
The actual Earth Types can be observed on common Silver IKEs where the Type 1 is the 1971-S, the Type 2 is the 1972-S, and the Type 3 is the 1973-S.
The Type 2 reverse also is present on the 1971-S Silver Proof.
What you really need to watch for is a Type 1 reverse on a 1971-S Silver Proof and a Type 2 reverse on a 1971-S Silver Business strike. The coins are supposed to exist although I have never come across either one.
To fill in the blanks, the Type 4 reverse is the BiCentennial reverse on the Type 1 1976 IKE produced in 1975 and the Type 5 reverse is the BiCentennial reverse of the Type 1976 IKE produced in 1976. The Type 4 reverse has broad flat lettering with no serifs on the reverse while the Type 5 has the narrow higher lettering with serifs on the reverse. The shapes of the M's are different as well where the Type 4 M's come to points at the top and the Type 5 is flattened. The photo's below are labeled with their common names (Type 1 and Type 2) yet when considering the series as a whole, they are RDV-004 (Type 4) and RDV-005 (Type 5).
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Two MS64 ANACS attributed examples recently sold for around $180 and $175 on ebay.
An unattributed MS64 PCGS coin sold just last week for $115
A raw coin sold for $78
These will command strong money once they get attributed by PCGS which, hopefully, will be soon.
Mintage estimates are near 500,000 but very little is known about the die's. No documentation or recognition to their existence can be confirmed by the mint and its possible that of the quantity minted, only a small amount was actually released.
Lots and lots of unknown's.
I can tell you that I have searched for these almost exclusively for the past couple of years and found very few in any kind of grade.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Shark, my best guess (and it's as good a guess as you will obtain at this point) is the mintage of the FEP is comparable to the 1972 T2. MS examples one finds are roughly one grade higher than the 1972 T2. Pricing, therefore, should be around T2 prices down a grade. For example, MS65 and 66 examples (PCGS grading) are tough but not quite as tough as the T2.
In my somewhat obcessive searching for T2's and FEPs the past 18 months I have cherried about 50 T2's, 35 MS that PCGS graded mostly 62 and 63 with a three 64's. This is from plowing through dealer's bags, bins and BU rolls and from buying maybe 20 Internet BU rolls.
I've found roughly 50 MS FEPs from around 100 purchased 1971-D rolls over this time, and, roughly 30 circ FEPs from purchases of large batches of circ 71-D's. ONLY 10 Circ FEPs from all the bags and bins but all such searching has been on the East Coast.
Concentrations of T2's are geographically different than concentrations of FEPs so it will take a few years for price-supply to settle down. I do expect for the near term that circ. FEPs will fall in price to $25-35 as initial cherrying should supply the market for a while.
It's interesting that we do not know the mintage of the 1979-S WR SBA! My searches of dozens of 100 coin bags of 79-P's has yielded about one per hundred but WR's have appeared in fairly high concentrations in rare'79-P bags. A reliable source at the Philly Mint wrote around 1980 that over 1/3 of 1979-P dies were WR dies, but I have to question this figure unless the great majority of these dies were never used.
Ikes are fairly hot right now and will get hotter over the next several years. SBAs are not, but if/when they take off, the price of Wide Rims should accellerate. Rob
Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....
Earl, I didn't see where this ever got answered, so I did some diggin' on it. According to Wikipedia, it stands for Friendly Eagle Pattern (1971-D Ike verity).
Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up. Joe G. Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Earl, I didn't see where this ever got answered, so I did some diggin' on it. According to Wikipedia, it stands for Friendly Eagle Pattern (1971-D Ike verity). >>
Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized.
<< <i>Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized. >>
I saw a raw coin advertised as MS on eBay a number os days ago. If I recall correctly, the hammer price was $31 and some cents. I currently have about a dozen of these raw in various grades from XF to lower MS. Additionally, I have four slabbed by PCGS in MS63 to MS64.
If I remember correctly, some of the big IKE guys were expecting PCGS to start designating these as varieties back in 2007 some time, which helped with the run up in the pricing in my opinion. It never happened. It's too bad, ebcause it really is a cool variety. The few that I have found over the years ia after searching thousands of IKEs. In fact, I recently searched 4,000 IKEs and walked away with one of these and five 1972 Type 2. So...
<< <i>Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized. >>
I saw a raw coin advertised as MS on eBay a number os days ago. If I recall correctly, the hammer price was $31 and some cents. I currently have about a dozen of these raw in various grades from XF to lower MS. Additionally, I have four slabbed by PCGS in MS63 to MS64.
If I remember correctly, some of the big IKE guys were expecting PCGS to start designating these as varieties back in 2007 some time, which helped with the run up in the pricing in my opinion. It never happened. It's too bad, ebcause it really is a cool variety. The few that I have found over the years ia after searching thousands of IKEs. In fact, I recently searched 4,000 IKEs and walked away with one of these and five 1972 Type 2. So... >>
Back in 2007, I would randomly order 5 or 6 1971-D's from various online dealers at the usual $3.95 asking price.
One dealer I ordered from delivered 5 of 5 BU RDV-006's! I quickly ordered 40 more and then ordered an additional 40 in a subsequent order.
Walked away with close to 4 rolls of nice BU coins.
Did I think they were not as rare as some folks think because I stumbled across a mini hoard?
Not even for a second! I understand that these came from specific dies which were more than likely all bagged together and more than likely were distributed in $1,000 bags to similar locations. Estimates are 500,000 to 750,000 produced which is not a whole lot compared to the 68.5 Million 1971-D's which were produced.
These coins are certainly not ultra rare but I see way more 1972 Type 2's for sale than these coins. Of course, that could very well be that the Type 2 is a sure money maker while the RDV-006 is a little iffy but I feel confident that the coin will show in increase in popularity should PCGS get off their butts and start attributing them.
Lastly, high grade versions of these coins are extremely scarce as I know of less than 15-20 MS66's. There is 1 MS67 NGC coin floating around but no PCGS coins. The folks in the IKE group have been searching for these since late 2005 and submitting the high grade coins so it's not like folks aren't trying. They are just danged hard to find in MS66.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<<Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized.>>
I am not a guru in the pricing of this item. But I do have the impression that high grade specimens are quite desireable and expensive.
Another separate item is the Re-entry Vehicle, REV, which shows only on early die state FEV's. If you have a sharp REV, I would say you have a very desireable item that should be worth something.
I hope somebody else can chime in with some specific pricing.
Comments
The pictures don't look like 2's to me. Maybe the type 2 is king. There are pretenders to the throne around.
<< <i><<I have no doubt at all that this "pattern" die was intended for proof production in San Francisco and inadvertantly shipped to Denver.>>
Lee, I am going to nitpick one word there. San Francisco sent so much stuff that shouldn't have been used at Denver to Denver, that I doubt that it was an accident. Creative accounting or inventory control might be more like it. We can't use it here so ship it out and take a credit. Denver actually using these items might have been inadvertent. They certainly did regret using the quarter planchets on dime stock obtained from San Francisco (1970).
There are other very interesting items likely originating from San Francisco. There was a 1971-D quarter produced from a proof artwork reverse (type
PAC, you know your proof artwork! I'm going to bump this thread to Herbert Hicks who has had a passion for the 1971-D and 1972-D proof artwork quarters in case he is not aware of your interest and expertise.
"The Ike Group" will have a lot to say about the reverse of the 1972 TYPE 2 Ike in an up-comming article if our research doesn't throw us a curve ball at the last minute.
Returning to the FEP, since there are at least 4 different "D" Mintmark placements and at least that many DD versions, it is challenging to explain the scarcity of the DD versions.
DRG, the FEP Guru and also a member of The Ike Group, wrote in another FEP thread that there are several possible explanations including the Denver Mint pulling much of the mintage but it remains one heck of an open-ended question!
I am reasonably certain that no FEPs were minted at the Philly mint (unless subsequently shipped to Denver for distribution) (the Philly Mint had a four chamber testing room were many dies were tested through full die runs: if the coins looked OK, they were released into circulation (Mike Lantz, personal communication) as there are darn few FEP's kicking around on the East Coast except down South (GA and FL FRB's were often supplied by the Denver Mint).
Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The name is LEE!
<< <i>What happened to Type 4 & 5?
These are just the Earth types that appear on the T1, T2, T3, and T6 coins.
Type 4 is the 1976 BiCentennial Type 1 reverse produced in 1975
Type 5 is the 1976 BiCentennial Type 2 reverse produced in 1976
<< <i>How come they keep moving Cuba? >>
I think they just wanted Cuba to go away since this was the Cold War era!
The name is LEE!
I need a science microscope and it takes me an hour to see it.
If I don't see it with the naked eye,its el paso.
Please allow an old man the use of his reading glasses though.
edited to addd an missing "a" and "e".
<< <i>Reminds me of trying to see the buck teeth on a 55 Bugs Bunny Franklin.
I need a science microscope and it takes me an hour to see it.
If I don't see it with the naked eye,its el paso.
The FEP is a remarkable Ike in part because it is SO EASILY PICKED OUT OF A PILE OF IKES WITHOUT A LOUPE, let alone a microscope.
(Sorry 'bout the CAPS, got carried away...)
As DRG pointed, the large Gulf of Mexico is easy to see, the absence of a brow line is easy to see, the more southern-pointing Florida is easy to see, the exaggerated "teeth" on the lower right crater jump right out and the string of islands seals the deal.
Of course, you do have to look: actually, please don't , more for the rest of us to find
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>However, this someone (TDN) based their opinion solely on looking at pictures and he has little if any experience with the Eisenhower varieties
You're right - I forgot you modern guys embrace varieties that require significant magnification to spot. Something discernable with the naked eye, no matter how minor, is cause celebre'
Totally unfair. I like the Wisconsin extra leaves
I have found that many modern AND classic collectors like varities that require significant magnification.
If you are going to throw stones, don't aim at just one house around here if both are well lived in
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Therefore I recommend caution on the current ebay offering of a type 2 whose claim to fame is "islands below Florida". These look a lot like a type 1. This is being sold "as is" with a starting price of $9.99. I note items like this seldom get any bids.
The actual Earth Types can be observed on common Silver IKEs where the Type 1 is the 1971-S, the Type 2 is the 1972-S, and the Type 3 is the 1973-S.
The Type 2 reverse also is present on the 1971-S Silver Proof.
What you really need to watch for is a Type 1 reverse on a 1971-S Silver Proof and a Type 2 reverse on a 1971-S Silver Business strike. The coins are supposed to exist although I have never come across either one.
To fill in the blanks, the Type 4 reverse is the BiCentennial reverse on the Type 1 1976 IKE produced in 1975 and the Type 5 reverse is the BiCentennial reverse of the Type 1976 IKE produced in 1976. The Type 4 reverse has broad flat lettering with no serifs on the reverse while the Type 5 has the narrow higher lettering with serifs on the reverse. The shapes of the M's are different as well where the Type 4 M's come to points at the top and the Type 5 is flattened.
The photo's below are labeled with their common names (Type 1 and Type 2) yet when considering the series as a whole, they are RDV-004 (Type 4) and RDV-005 (Type 5).
The name is LEE!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
so is this like a 79 p near date worth 10 bucks or so in unc or is this coin
only going to be worth money in real high grade? registy quality ect....
Two MS64 ANACS attributed examples recently sold for around $180 and $175 on ebay.
An unattributed MS64 PCGS coin sold just last week for $115
A raw coin sold for $78
These will command strong money once they get attributed by PCGS which, hopefully, will be soon.
Mintage estimates are near 500,000 but very little is known about the die's. No documentation or recognition to their existence can be confirmed by the mint and its possible that of the quantity minted, only a small amount was actually released.
Lots and lots of unknown's.
I can tell you that I have searched for these almost exclusively for the past couple of years and found very few in any kind of grade.
The name is LEE!
didn't realize how banged up most ikes get until I started looking at some with a 10x.
I think the series is great, can't believe it's not more popular.
chris
<< <i>Anacs liked my toners, but only one 65.
Shark, my best guess (and it's as good a guess as you will obtain at this point) is the mintage of the FEP is comparable to the 1972 T2. MS examples one finds are roughly one grade higher than the 1972 T2. Pricing, therefore, should be around T2 prices down a grade. For example, MS65 and 66 examples (PCGS grading) are tough but not quite as tough as the T2.
In my somewhat obcessive searching for T2's and FEPs the past 18 months I have cherried about 50 T2's, 35 MS that PCGS graded mostly 62 and 63 with a three 64's. This is from plowing through dealer's bags, bins and BU rolls and from buying maybe 20 Internet BU rolls.
I've found roughly 50 MS FEPs from around 100 purchased 1971-D rolls over this time, and, roughly 30 circ FEPs from purchases of large batches of circ 71-D's. ONLY 10 Circ FEPs from all the bags and bins but all such searching has been on the East Coast.
Concentrations of T2's are geographically different than concentrations of FEPs so it will take a few years for price-supply to settle down. I do expect for the near term that circ. FEPs will fall in price to $25-35 as initial cherrying should supply the market for a while.
It's interesting that we do not know the mintage of the 1979-S WR SBA! My searches of dozens of 100 coin bags of 79-P's has yielded about one per hundred but WR's have appeared in fairly high concentrations in rare'79-P bags. A reliable source at the Philly Mint wrote around 1980 that over 1/3 of 1979-P dies were WR dies, but I have to question this figure unless the great majority of these dies were never used.
Ikes are fairly hot right now and will get hotter over the next several years. SBAs are not, but if/when they take off, the price of Wide Rims should accellerate. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
<< <i>Ok, I'll ask the obvious.....
What the heck does FEP stand for? >>
Earl, I didn't see where this ever got answered, so I did some diggin' on it. According to Wikipedia, it stands for Friendly Eagle Pattern (1971-D Ike verity).
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ok, I'll ask the obvious.....
What the heck does FEP stand for? >>
Earl, I didn't see where this ever got answered, so I did some diggin' on it. According to Wikipedia, it stands for Friendly Eagle Pattern (1971-D Ike verity). >>
Really? It's in Wikipedia?
Well I'll be doggoned!
The name is LEE!
I'm in the perfect place to find a few.
chris
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
FEV = Friendly Eagle Variety instead of
FEP = Friendly Eagle Pattern.
Call it what you want, it's a great story and a great variety as far as I'm concerned....Mike
<< <i>Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized. >>
I saw a raw coin advertised as MS on eBay a number os days ago. If I recall correctly, the hammer price was $31 and some cents. I currently have about a dozen of these raw in various grades from XF to lower MS. Additionally, I have four slabbed by PCGS in MS63 to MS64.
If I remember correctly, some of the big IKE guys were expecting PCGS to start designating these as varieties back in 2007 some time, which helped with the run up in the pricing in my opinion. It never happened. It's too bad, ebcause it really is a cool variety. The few that I have found over the years ia after searching thousands of IKEs. In fact, I recently searched 4,000 IKEs and walked away with one of these and five 1972 Type 2. So...
<< <i>
<< <i>Did these dollars ever find an excepted pricing level? They started out well as I remember, but the value seems to have dropped quite a bit since they became recognized. >>
I saw a raw coin advertised as MS on eBay a number os days ago. If I recall correctly, the hammer price was $31 and some cents. I currently have about a dozen of these raw in various grades from XF to lower MS. Additionally, I have four slabbed by PCGS in MS63 to MS64.
If I remember correctly, some of the big IKE guys were expecting PCGS to start designating these as varieties back in 2007 some time, which helped with the run up in the pricing in my opinion. It never happened. It's too bad, ebcause it really is a cool variety. The few that I have found over the years ia after searching thousands of IKEs. In fact, I recently searched 4,000 IKEs and walked away with one of these and five 1972 Type 2. So... >>
Back in 2007, I would randomly order 5 or 6 1971-D's from various online dealers at the usual $3.95 asking price.
One dealer I ordered from delivered 5 of 5 BU RDV-006's! I quickly ordered 40 more and then ordered an additional 40 in a subsequent order.
Walked away with close to 4 rolls of nice BU coins.
Did I think they were not as rare as some folks think because I stumbled across a mini hoard?
Not even for a second! I understand that these came from specific dies which were more than likely all bagged together and more than likely were distributed in $1,000 bags to similar locations. Estimates are 500,000 to 750,000 produced which is not a whole lot compared to the 68.5 Million 1971-D's which were produced.
These coins are certainly not ultra rare but I see way more 1972 Type 2's for sale than these coins. Of course, that could very well be that the Type 2 is a sure money maker while the RDV-006 is a little iffy but I feel confident that the coin will show in increase in popularity should PCGS get off their butts and start attributing them.
Lastly, high grade versions of these coins are extremely scarce as I know of less than 15-20 MS66's. There is 1 MS67 NGC coin floating around but no PCGS coins. The folks in the IKE group have been searching for these since late 2005 and submitting the high grade coins so it's not like folks aren't trying. They are just danged hard to find in MS66.
The name is LEE!
I am not a guru in the pricing of this item. But I do have the impression that high grade specimens are quite desireable and expensive.
Another separate item is the Re-entry Vehicle, REV, which shows only on early die state FEV's. If you have a sharp REV, I would say you have a very desireable item that should be worth something.
I hope somebody else can chime in with some specific pricing.