Just received my 2007 Buff grades...OUCH!!!

FloridaBill · June 28, 2007 1:05AM

1 1 11785061 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 2 11785062 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 3 11785063 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 4 11785064 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 5 11785065 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 6 11785066 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 7 11785067 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 8 11785068 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 9 11785069 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC
1 10 11785070 149586 2007-W $50 American Buffalo - First Strike US PR69DC

Oh well...win some and lose some....

FloridaBill

JoeLewis · June 28, 2007 1:07AM

It's so funny that getting a grade of PR69DCAM is an "OUCH."

123cents · June 28, 2007 1:08AM

Not bad but not great. At least you didn't receive any 68's.

FloridaBill · June 28, 2007 1:09AM

on eBay, a 69 goes for $750, a 70 for $1500+

Issue Price...$825

Of course, add $40 each for grading, plus shipping both ways...

FloridaBill

jmj3esq · June 28, 2007 1:10AM

I hope you are kidding. Its all a sudden an "ouch" when one does not get a 70? I dont think you "lost" anything there. I love how the modern coin market has turned into a scracth off lottery ticket game.

mcheath · June 28, 2007 1:12AM

>>>>>>>>I hope you are kidding. Its all a sudden an "ouch" when one does not get a 70? I dont think you "lost" anything there. I love how the modern coin market has turned into a scracth off lottery ticket game.
>>>>>>>>>

$75+ grading fees is what he lost.

fc · June 28, 2007 1:18AM

thanks for posting about your misadventure.
you stepped up to the plate and admitted a small defeat.
for your one post, how many are we not seeing?

Cladiator · June 28, 2007 1:19AM

<< It's so funny that getting a grade of PR69DCAM is an "OUCH."

>>

Honestly, that was exactly what I was thinking when I looked at the OP.

pf70collector · June 28, 2007 1:35AM

Are these tough in 70's?

Doogy · June 28, 2007 1:42AM

<< I hope you are kidding. Its all a sudden an "ouch" when one does not get a 70? I dont think you "lost" anything there. I love how the modern coin market has turned into a scracth off lottery ticket game. >>

YUP, my thoughts exactly. the OP may want to learn how to tell a 69 from a 70 (or at least, how the TPGs can) or give up on resubmitting any more bullion coins.

Rampage · June 28, 2007 2:00AM

So, I am curious. Had you left the coins in the original mint packaging, how much would the coin sell for? Above or below issue price?

Wolf359 · June 28, 2007 2:02AM

<< on eBay, a 69 goes for $750, a 70 for $1500+

Issue Price...$825

Of course, add $40 each for grading, plus shipping both ways...

FloridaBill >>

So, if my math is right:

Your cost was 8650. You lose 1150 (not counting eBay or PayPal fees of 5-6%) here.
If one of those coins had made PR70DCAM and sold for $1500 on eBay, you still lost $400 (not couting eBay/PayPal again).
So you needed 2 of those coins to make PR70 to make make a $350 profit on an $8650 investment and probably zero after eBay/PayPal fees.

No offense, but it's easier to make money in classics at that rate.

Wolf359 · June 28, 2007 2:05AM

However, kudos to you for admitting your loss. We all get shafted sometimes....

Bochiman · June 28, 2007 2:05AM

No offense to anyone (since I flip too) but I do find it funny when people go "flip flip flip" and think things can never go wrong.
This didn't even go wrong and it still hurts the pocketbook.
It's like going to vegas....and, everyone knows who is the actual winner there...the house!

It's just not smart, nor sane, to continually go for the PR70 grade, or else you lose money, imho.

Russ · June 28, 2007 2:11AM

My how things have changed. It used to be that nobody expected a PR70, but when they got one it was a cause for celebration. Now, people submit expecting PR70's and feel they got screwed when they don't get them.

Russ, NCNE

TomB · June 28, 2007 2:20AM

I don't find the fault in FLB's logic the way some others do in this thread. The only data point we have to go by is the PCGS population report and this shows that of the 2006-W proof Buffalo issue that 19% were graded PF70DCAM, which works out to two coins out of ten. I would assume that many of those 2006-W coins were pre-screened, but that many more were not. Therefore, if you believe you know what you are doing and you believe that PCGS will be consistent in grading standards, two dangerous assumptions that must be made, then one might believe they may match or exceed 19% for PF70DCAM.

At the standard 19% PF70DCAM rate we would have had $9,000 in ebay sales with $9,200 expenses (Buffalo purchase price plus grading fees plus combined 6% sales total ebay fees and PayPal fees plus reasonable postage fees). However, if one is skilled at grading and can anticipate PCGS grades then simply getting one more PF70DCAM than average would yield $450 profit instead of $200 loss. Truly, this doesn't seem like too bad of a play if you have confidence in yourself.

An anecdotal observation of this would be my experience in buying a single US Mint issue within the last two years. The PCGS rate for MS70 was less than 20%, but I went through the pieces I purchased and submitted only those that I believed had a good chance at MS70 from PCGS. It turned out that I doubled the rate of MS70 coins and made good money on those pieces. The coins that were not submitted were sold to a dealer in their original packaging at one price and the group that was submitted was sold to another dealer in slabs at a far higher price. In this case, it worked quite well for me, but this is only a singular experience for me.

wondercoin · June 28, 2007 2:54AM

FB: Your grades are "in line" with grading results over the past couple weeks where I have seen orders (with larger quantities) coming back with as little as 2%-4% PR70DC. And, here is a perfect example of a modern US Mint product that requires massive sums of money to get a meaningful return for "all the trouble". I came very close to not wanting to even "play" at all on this one, but decided I needed some PR70DC coins for customers so "what the heck". I can only imagine what the remainder of the year is going to be like on the non-FS examples in PR69DC and PR70DC - amazing how a product as cool as a pure gold Buffalo 1 oz. can fall below Us Mint issue price so quickly (I am now buying 2006 proof examples for nearly $100 BELOW mint issue price (when I even want to mess with them), while passing on others being offered to me at $50-$75 back of issue price. Wondercoin.

Doogy · June 28, 2007 3:06AM

<< I don't find the fault in FLB's logic the way some others do in this thread. The only data point we have to go by is the PCGS population report and this shows that of the 2006-W proof Buffalo issue that 19% were graded PF70DCAM, which works out to two coins out of ten. I would assume that many of those 2006-W coins were pre-screened, but that many more were not. Therefore, if you believe you know what you are doing and you believe that PCGS will be consistent in grading standards, two dangerous assumptions that must be made, then one might believe they may match or exceed 19% for PF70DCAM.

At the standard 19% PF70DCAM rate we would have had $9,000 in ebay sales with $9,200 expenses (Buffalo purchase price plus grading fees plus combined 6% sales total ebay fees and PayPal fees plus reasonable postage fees). However, if one is skilled at grading and can anticipate PCGS grades then simply getting one more PF70DCAM than average would yield $450 profit instead of $200 loss. Truly, this doesn't seem like too bad of a play if you have confidence in yourself.

An anecdotal observation of this would be my experience in buying a single US Mint issue within the last two years. The PCGS rate for MS70 was less than 20%, but I went through the pieces I purchased and submitted only those that I believed had a good chance at MS70 from PCGS. It turned out that I doubled the rate of MS70 coins and made good money on those pieces. The coins that were not submitted were sold to a dealer in their original packaging at one price and the group that was submitted was sold to another dealer in slabs at a far higher price. In this case, it worked quite well for me, but this is only a singular experience for me. >>

Tom, i think the opeartive words here are "pre-screening". if a person can identify which ones have the best chance of a top grade (by learning what PCGS/NGC looks for in assigning such a grade; in this case, perfection), it is much less of a crap shoot. If a person simply buys a bunch, as it appears that Bill has done, and submits them all at once; it is simply akin to buying your Powerball ticket. Luck plays a bit of a part in coin collecting (and making money in it), but skill accounts for the majority of it IMHO.

mfcobra · June 28, 2007 3:09AM

I think you would be better off cracking the coins out & returning them to the mint for a refund, you would only be out grading fees then. Just a thought.

FLBuffaloHunter · June 28, 2007 3:18AM

PCGS pop report as of 06/24

Since the First Strike cut-off has passed, the First Strike 2007-W may turn out to be as scarce in a 70 as the 2006-W. Those that got in early were fetching ~$2,500 for a 2007-W PCGS PR70DCAM. The First Strike 2006-W PR70DCAM has been selling for ~$3,000.-

57loaded · June 28, 2007 3:34AM

<< on eBay, a 69 goes for $750, a 70 for $1500+

Issue Price...$825

Of course, add $40 each for grading, plus shipping both ways...

FloridaBill >>

when you put it that way, yes a huge one sorry

lotto1717 · June 28, 2007 5:15AM

OUCH.....I bought 2 and sent them in for grading and received 1 70 and 1 69 first strike.

Just received my 2007 Buff grades...OUCH!!!

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