Was the $4 Gold Stella design stolen or a form of tribute?

Comments

• boiler78 Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭✭✭

  June 27, 2007 2:01AM

  Oreville,
  I doubt we will ever know for sure but one thing is "for sure" That's a great Half Eagle pattern! I know someone who would be interested if you ever get tired of owning it.
  
  Mark

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• Artist Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭

  June 27, 2007 3:14AM

  Walter Breen makes many characterizations of Charles Barber in his Encyclopedia - my favorite one is: "Banal."
  
  To glimpse another example of his 'borrowing' an idea, take a picture of one of his Halves (1892 to 1916), reverse it, then make it the same size as a picture of Morgan dollar - the facial resemmblance is uncanny!
  
  Worse, is that from 1907 to 1916 (the years of America's 'Coin Rennaissance') instances where Charles Barber managed impede or altogether squelch the design process are rampant.

  
  >>>My Collection

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• fc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭

  June 27, 2007 3:51AM

  i say the design was borrowed and the timing of his
  father's death may very well be a good guess of why it is there.
  
  interesting post.

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• GD Posts: 13

  June 27, 2007 4:04AM

  Interesting conjecture.
  
  There's a Stella on eBay now - $250,000

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• oreville Posts: 12,148 ✭✭✭✭✭

  June 27, 2007 1:44PM

  
  
  << <i>Interesting conjecture. There's a Stella on eBay now - $250,000 >>
  
  
  
  The one that is for sale on ebay is the same one pictured in my post. Just to make sure that I did not violate any rules, I have no relationship to the Stella being sold on ebay, or the owners of the coin dealership selling the Stella, or the coin dealership selling the Stella, or to Ebay hosting the sale of the Stella, or to the internet server hosting ebay.com.
  
  Whew! I must have forgotten some other disclosure.

  A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!

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• RWB Posts: 8,082 ✭

  June 28, 2007 3:27AM

  There was quite a bit of borrowing going on at the Philadelphia Mint during the late 1870s, particularly between William Barber and his son Charles. In this case, the mint was told by House Coinage Committee Chairman Stephens to use something similar to the Goloid Liberty head. Later, Morgan and Barber often collaborated on designs (particularly medals) and it’s frequently difficult to determine which engraver to credit with the final product. The PPIE half dollar is a good example: contemporary mint documents credit Barber with both sides, but later letters (1930s) say that both engravers worked on the coin.
  
  FYI – newer research indicates that Charles Barber created both Stella designs. (Per 1910 hub destruction list.)
  
  RE: Charles Barber’s negative influence on the 1907-1921 “renaissance” designs appears to have been much less than Breen and some others have suggested. Here’s a simplified scorecard:
  
  1907 – Objected to $20 due to relief not being coinable and models too large for sharp reductions. He made no objection to the design. First EHR hubs cut by Henri Weil (not Barber). Barber’s objections were confirmed.
  
  1907 – Objected to $10 due to relief not being coinable and models too large for sharp reductions. Approved 3rd version sent by S-G Estate and supported its use.
  
  1908 – Made no objection to either design or sunken-relief. Heavy-handed retouching of hubs with encouragement from Dir. Leach.
  
  1909 – Insisted on letter Brenner have hubs cut by outside company. Reverse was fully successful, obverse lettering was too weak and Brenner redid this. Final hubs cut at mint by Barber when Brenner failed to follow Dir Leach’s instructions to lower head on coin. Later stated he did not like the design.
  
  1913 – Consistently sided with Fraser and was praised by Fraser on multiple occasions. Later stated he did not like the design.
  
  1916 – Trial production mechanical problems on all three designs. Alterations were result of artists requests to redesign, not Barber. Overall workmanship on patterns was sloppy. Apparently Morgan made the 1917 Ty-I design.
  
  1921 – Barber was dead, so cannot be blamed for anything.
  

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