Long Beach--Toner Topic
DRUNNER
Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭✭✭
First . . my collector's perception of Long Beach. I've attended 3 of them . . . usually one every two years or so. I definitely DO NOT have the long-range perspective of many others, but I do get around a little for numismatic perspective, so, for what it's worth . . . my rant.
I attended with another collector looking for nice 7070 material in "collector grades". Bottom line . . not too much available,. If you are looking for PCGS/NGC graded mid-range stuff (Seated in XF-AU, decent Barber, obsolete denoms), you can write it off. You need to know your location before digging through stock boxes (one gomer in the back from Oregon mentioned he was doing "$20k an hour" and we were taking up valuable space. Uh . . yeah. Plenty of everything in 65-67 Cam and DCAM . . . and boxes of cleaned and processed schlock, but I can see why I got torn up when I set up at a local show . . . the better stuff for the non-Registry guy is hard to find. Raw stuff? Equally difficult if you add originality as a qualification.
Now the guts of it . . .
The toned stuff (Morgans, copper, and nicer Type) has always been my forte. Since about 1995, I've searched all over for it and had some success. Also loved the toned SAEs . . . and have put quite a few away. Well . . . several years ago I took a chance (prior to the latest weeping/wailing/gnashing of teeth on toning) and fired off about 30 of them to PCGS (pix when I can figure out the camera) expecting maybe a few might get into holders. Short version . . . all 30 did. Gonzo. Monochromes. Target monstrosities. Iridescent bullseyes. They are primarily from the "Snap-Fit" holders, but a few are too wild to even understand. OK, so?
Well, I toured the floor as always looking for anyone who has a killer-toned SAE, hoping to get some idea on pricing of these PCGS examples. I've looked at all shows and asked many leading questions, but it's quite difficult to get a straight answer on toning. I found one guy with two PCGS SAE toners (and the obligatory AT'ed PCI). Just some fugly brown rim toning fading to peach. How much? $125. I'm carrying a half -dozen of my mid-range SAEs and don't show him, but DO show some other dealer friends. After the stammering and hyperventilating is over, I get offered $75 (from the NICE guys). I figure I'll feel a bit bad if I part with them and then see them for intergalactic money later, so I hold on and keep quiet on the floor until the last hour or two. I finally see another decent dealer acquaintance who evaluates them and offers to consign. He figures moon money as I expected. High three figures on each, but they will be disposed of with me being conveniently in the dark. The point of value is not that they are rare, it's that you won't be getting any into PCGS holders anymore. I've tried.
Point (s) ?
1. If you collect SAE toners, plan on doing it for enjoyment. You'll pay through the nose (or other orifice) if you can ever find one, but the market on the re-sale is 'interesting' to say the least. Not necessarily "one-way" . . . just covert.
2. There is a numismatic 'black hole' where the PCGS SAE toners go to die.
3. I am a small fish in a sea of hammerhead toner sharks. Time to move along now Drunner, there is nothing for you here.
LoBex was fun though . . . the bigger shows give a nice perspective on many aspects of the market.
Drunner
I attended with another collector looking for nice 7070 material in "collector grades". Bottom line . . not too much available,. If you are looking for PCGS/NGC graded mid-range stuff (Seated in XF-AU, decent Barber, obsolete denoms), you can write it off. You need to know your location before digging through stock boxes (one gomer in the back from Oregon mentioned he was doing "$20k an hour" and we were taking up valuable space. Uh . . yeah. Plenty of everything in 65-67 Cam and DCAM . . . and boxes of cleaned and processed schlock, but I can see why I got torn up when I set up at a local show . . . the better stuff for the non-Registry guy is hard to find. Raw stuff? Equally difficult if you add originality as a qualification.
Now the guts of it . . .
The toned stuff (Morgans, copper, and nicer Type) has always been my forte. Since about 1995, I've searched all over for it and had some success. Also loved the toned SAEs . . . and have put quite a few away. Well . . . several years ago I took a chance (prior to the latest weeping/wailing/gnashing of teeth on toning) and fired off about 30 of them to PCGS (pix when I can figure out the camera) expecting maybe a few might get into holders. Short version . . . all 30 did. Gonzo. Monochromes. Target monstrosities. Iridescent bullseyes. They are primarily from the "Snap-Fit" holders, but a few are too wild to even understand. OK, so?
Well, I toured the floor as always looking for anyone who has a killer-toned SAE, hoping to get some idea on pricing of these PCGS examples. I've looked at all shows and asked many leading questions, but it's quite difficult to get a straight answer on toning. I found one guy with two PCGS SAE toners (and the obligatory AT'ed PCI). Just some fugly brown rim toning fading to peach. How much? $125. I'm carrying a half -dozen of my mid-range SAEs and don't show him, but DO show some other dealer friends. After the stammering and hyperventilating is over, I get offered $75 (from the NICE guys). I figure I'll feel a bit bad if I part with them and then see them for intergalactic money later, so I hold on and keep quiet on the floor until the last hour or two. I finally see another decent dealer acquaintance who evaluates them and offers to consign. He figures moon money as I expected. High three figures on each, but they will be disposed of with me being conveniently in the dark. The point of value is not that they are rare, it's that you won't be getting any into PCGS holders anymore. I've tried.
Point (s) ?
1. If you collect SAE toners, plan on doing it for enjoyment. You'll pay through the nose (or other orifice) if you can ever find one, but the market on the re-sale is 'interesting' to say the least. Not necessarily "one-way" . . . just covert.
2. There is a numismatic 'black hole' where the PCGS SAE toners go to die.
3. I am a small fish in a sea of hammerhead toner sharks. Time to move along now Drunner, there is nothing for you here.
LoBex was fun though . . . the bigger shows give a nice perspective on many aspects of the market.
Drunner
0
Comments
<< <i>The point of value is not that they are rare, it's that you won't be getting any into PCGS holders anymore. I've tried. >>
An interesting perspective. As a collector I would be reluctant to pay moon money for these toners knowing that I am so dependent on the climate at PCGS. If PCGS changes course again and decides to start slabbing the pretty toners, the value for existing ones will likely go down.
As a collector, if I liked these things, it might be more fun to collect them raw, or in some other company's holders where they are more plentiful, or maybe even try to make them myself. The downside is a lot less.
Drunner
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