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Hard Times Token, Feuchtwanger Cent, and Civil War Token thread!
lordmarcovan
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It's time for a Hard Times Token, Feuchtwanger cent, and Civil War Token thread!
Here is a Liberty Head/Not One Cent HTT I just found in my antique mall inventory, which I had forgotten I owned. It was the last remaining one out of a half dozen or so I got about two years ago. The others were lower grade and therefore cheaper and therefore sold quickly. This was the best of the lot, but ironically, the only one to remain unsold. Perhaps I was asking too much for it at forty bucks? No matter- I am preparing to toss into the Bay of E at one cent and see where it goes.
Using the Rulau token encyclopedia, I have the variety as HT47. What do you specialists use as a reference on these? What can you add in terms of knowledge, on this piece and any others that get posted here? Got grading tips? Buying tips? What to look for? What to avoid? I guess a lot of the buying tips are pretty much the same as they'd be for these tokens' official counterparts- the copper large cents.
Got some nice ones you'd like to share? Sounds weird to say it, but I guess I'm in the mood for some Hard Times!
I called this one EF40-ish but there's a little granularity/roughness to the surfaces. (Not enough for me to call it a problem piece, though- I think it makes it look "original", to use an overused term.)
If I knew the secrets of the EAC copper people with their camel hair brushes or whatever magic tricks they have, I might say this piece could benefit from a gentle brushing. But all I have is a brass wire brush, and rest assured that ain't coming anywhere near this! I have left this piece unmolested. Actually, it is not unattractive to my eye.
What say ye, those who are In The Know? Comment on mine, and post yours!
Here is a Liberty Head/Not One Cent HTT I just found in my antique mall inventory, which I had forgotten I owned. It was the last remaining one out of a half dozen or so I got about two years ago. The others were lower grade and therefore cheaper and therefore sold quickly. This was the best of the lot, but ironically, the only one to remain unsold. Perhaps I was asking too much for it at forty bucks? No matter- I am preparing to toss into the Bay of E at one cent and see where it goes.
Using the Rulau token encyclopedia, I have the variety as HT47. What do you specialists use as a reference on these? What can you add in terms of knowledge, on this piece and any others that get posted here? Got grading tips? Buying tips? What to look for? What to avoid? I guess a lot of the buying tips are pretty much the same as they'd be for these tokens' official counterparts- the copper large cents.
Got some nice ones you'd like to share? Sounds weird to say it, but I guess I'm in the mood for some Hard Times!
I called this one EF40-ish but there's a little granularity/roughness to the surfaces. (Not enough for me to call it a problem piece, though- I think it makes it look "original", to use an overused term.)
If I knew the secrets of the EAC copper people with their camel hair brushes or whatever magic tricks they have, I might say this piece could benefit from a gentle brushing. But all I have is a brass wire brush, and rest assured that ain't coming anywhere near this! I have left this piece unmolested. Actually, it is not unattractive to my eye.
What say ye, those who are In The Know? Comment on mine, and post yours!
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Edited to say that "the trigger" for me was the phrase "Hard Times". I'd say being on Welfare is pretty much
"Hard Times", wouldn't you?
The "Hard Times" we're talkin' about in this case took place during Andy Jackson's presidency.
Here is one page I Googled up. The timeframe you asked about on these would be circa 1834-1844. There are many different types, and if I recall correctly, not all are dated. Most are the same size and approximate weight as a large cent, as they circulated in place of the cents that were so hard to find in circulation at the time. (Just as later, the Civil War tokens were similar to the small cents of their time, which had vanished from circulation due to wartime hoarding.)
Edit: this article seems to be longer on info but much shorter on pictures.
(Just with a little bit of added ventilation. Heh.)
Here's my first Feuchtwanger cent, holed of course, from the Holey Coin Vest. I just sold this one when I upgraded to a higher grade piece.
CoinJP, who bought this one, told me was HT-268 obverse Die 3, after I noted the strange 7 in the date. After he got it, he was quite pleased, and said, "It's variety 3E, which ranks an R-3 in rarity". Whatever that means, haha.
The HT number he gave me makes me suppose these Feuchtwangers are catalogued with the Hard Times Tokens? I wonder if they are in my Rulau encyclopedia, which I haven't taken off the shelf in a year or three. Hmmm.
I replaced that one with the next one below, which a forum member was kind enough to point out to me on eBay. I think I got this new, EF-ish one for $18.50, just recently- just three and a half bucks more than I sold my old one for. Love the eagle and serpent on those Feuchtwangers. And I like the alloy, too. It made me wonder why the Mint didn't take Feuchtwanger up on his proposal.
CoinJP had some information on that score, too, some courtesy of Conder101.
<< <i>Here's what Conder101 had to say about why the U.S. never adopted the composition:
"One Feuchtwanger had patented his composition and wanted royalties for supplying the mint with the alloy. Two, at the time there was no significant production of Nickel in the US and the metal for the coinage would all have to be imported from outside the country. The mint was looking for a replacement for the copper cent since the cost of the copper was almost equal to the face value of the coin and they were in danger of coing them at a loss. With the royalties an the importation costs there would have been no real advantage to the Feuchtwanger composition over that of the copper.
Even when they did finally go to a coppernickel composition in 1857 it still was not liked at the mint because it was very difficult to create the alloy because of the extremely high melting point of the nickel, and the resulting alloy was very hard on the coinage dies and even so did not strike up well. It became even worse when congress mandated the 75% copper 25% nickel three cent and five cent pieces a few years later. That is why it is difficult to find fully struck three and five cent nickels and why it is almost impossible to find coins that don't come from cracked dies. Before 1865/6 the number of die pairs the Philadelphia mint had to make each year for all denominations amounted to a few hundred pairs. In 1868 they were making over 1400 pairs just for the nickels alone." >>
Anyway, here is my current Feuchtwanger cent from the famous Holey Coin Vest.
And to finish out my holey trifecta, here is the only Civil War Token I have on the vest, an 1863 "Army & Navy" type with a Liberty head. It's a rather wretched piece, to be sure (holeyness aside). But I kind of like that type of Liberty head- reminds me of the one used on the Confederate cent.
The HT number he gave me makes me suppose these Feuchtwangers are catalogued with the Hard Times Tokens? I wonder if they are in my Rulau encyclopedia, which I haven't taken off the shelf in a year or three. Hmmm.
If you're using the Standard Catalog of US Tokens, they are indeed in there. HT 260-268 are all Feutwanger pieces. Growing up "Redbook" so to speak, you'd think there were only 2 different pieces, with a couple of variations. You get into the Token book, and there are 20 die variations of the cent alone listed, 4 different 3 cent pieces, and two tokens simply promoting his silver composition.
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Robert, I'm really kicking myself for not bidding on that Feuchtwanger you recently won on the bay.
I'm trying to attribute your piece but I need bigger pics to be sure. I know for sure the obverse was struck from die 4 but not 100% sure about the reverse die. It's either reverse die E or F. From here, it looks like a 4E which is an R-3. If it turns out to be a 4F that ranks an R-8.
I really like obverse 4 because it's the only obverse die that the loop in the snake's tail is to the left of the date.
<< <i>You found this thread all by yourself! Cool- I was gonna PM you a link.
The word Feuchtwanger does really stand out well.
<< <i>I'm trying to attribute your piece but I need bigger pics to be sure. I know for sure the obverse was struck from die 4 but not 100% sure about the reverse die. It's either reverse die E or F. From here, it looks like a 4E which is an R-3. If it turns out to be a 4F that ranks an R-8. >>
Well, heck, it was still lying on the scanner glass. Your wish is my command.
Big enuff fer ya now?
Aack, a little TOO big- I had better link it instead of insert it!
(PS- the second one you posted above is a beaut. I like that one and my old holey with the funky 7 on it. I'd buy that one back anytime you tire of it, even though I have a nicer grade holey now. But I suspect it's found a new home for good, eh?)
I was also surprised to see those nice ones from Steve ("Millennium"), but maybe I shouldn't be. Steve is my local metal detecting buddy though we don't get together much, despite living in the same smallish GA town. I have never seen the majority of his treasure trove, aside from a few pieces he dug while out with me. His nondug stuff like those Feuchtwangers I have never seen at all.
I grade yours a nice XF details, holed.
Man, I love these things!
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<< <i>123cents, yours is a 3E, R-3. >>
Thanks John. I appreciate it. I have a Feuchtwanger Cent graded MS-61 by SEGS that I am going to photo and post later.
1) 6G, R-1
2) 6I, R-1
3) 5H, R-1
4) 5H, R-1 probably LDS due to the crumbling of the letters, Notice the N's
<< <i>His first one is sweet! >>
Yes, I also like that one a lot. Looks MS.
<< <i> millennium, I attributed your tokens too: >>
Thanks coinJP.....I picked these up cheap on a Stacks auction....I think I was the only bidder. I liked the way they looked, especially the first one, and I have never owned one, so I made a bid on the lot and won it.
Very unusual coins.
I love this one but the obv. is a bit fugly.
Civil War:
Ed. S.
(EJS)
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