Are these the same coin?

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 1:42AM

Not my detective work - bringing it over from across the street. Note the strike on the stars, line from the rim at E in STATES, spot below the eagle's chin and spot below first L in DOLLAR.

Rob790 · May 26, 2007 1:47AM

Yes the same coin. Look at the very small rim mark above Liberty's head on both coins, aside from the matched diagnostics you already mentioned. Same.

RichieURich · May 26, 2007 1:50AM

They look like the same coin to me.

MidAtlanticCoins · May 26, 2007 1:53AM

My first instinct was yes, but star 1, 2, and 3 do not appear to be as well struck. Of course this could be the difference in lighting. The markers that you stated do appear to be the same.
Does color really make that much of a difference with this particular coin? My kudos to the 2nd photographer though. Great detail..

ILikeMercs · May 26, 2007 1:55AM

mark between O and F are the same also.

melikecoins · May 26, 2007 2:00AM

Same coin

Glen

TorinoCobra71 · May 26, 2007 2:00AM

I would have to say YES!

TorinoCobra71

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 2:02AM

Tiny tick just inside the 4th star, also. And a tiny line going up and to the right from the 8 in the date.

poorguy · May 26, 2007 2:04AM

Same coin. Look at the second L in DOLLAR on the reverse. There's a tiny identifying mark along with the mark just below the Eagle's beak. I immediately noticed this coin in the sale and in my opinion thought it looked like it could be AT because of the mottledness of the colors. They aren't smooth and small pinpri ck toning breaks gave it away in my opinion.

DoubleEagle59 · May 26, 2007 2:08AM

I would say YES also!!

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 2:13AM

Somebody's got some big cojones - that second coin imaged fetched $63k in a PCGS PR64 holder.

It appears that a coin doctor now favors Gobrecht dollars .... that PISSES ME OFF!

123cents · May 26, 2007 2:14AM

I don't think they are the same coins. Too many of the letters look different to me.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · May 26, 2007 2:50AM

yep, they're the same

RYK · May 26, 2007 2:59AM

Probably so. Characteristic toning of coins that seem to trickle through certain venues.

Bubblehead · May 26, 2007 3:17AM

The reverses do appear identical.

NumisOxide · May 26, 2007 3:22AM

Yes.

rwyarmch · May 26, 2007 3:42AM

"Previously from Stack's sale of the Robison Collection, February 1982, Lot 1889."

Am I the only one who's curious what this coin looked like in the 1982 catalogue!?

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 3:43AM

<< "Previously from Stack's sale of the Robison Collection, February 1982, Lot 1889."

Am I the only one who's curious what this coin looked like in the 1982 catalogue!? >>

It looked like the bottom picture, I'm sure. Just like it looked in 2006. Nevermore.

coinlieutenant · May 26, 2007 3:49AM

Bummer...

IGWT · May 26, 2007 4:26AM

These comparisons are always easier for me when the photos are side-by-side (and I know that Bochiman agrees

). I say that they're likely the same coin, based mostly on the reverse markers that others have already pointed out. Edited to add: But I'm still a long way from certain.

LindeDad · May 26, 2007 4:39AM

I agree they are to same coin.
But I just wonder if it is not just the quality of the lighting, and the fact that the new set show the toning that was allready there.
The pattern lines are there in the earlier pictures. And I have seen many cases of the coin has the flash but it is allmost impossible to show in the images.
Also the quality of the photo equiptment has improved greatly in just the last few years.

Hope you are not right about a new doctor at work.

RedneckHB · May 26, 2007 4:54AM

I think we are now in the bottom of the 7th inning.

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 8:59AM

At least this one didn't get into a holder!

foundinrolls · May 26, 2007 9:28AM

NO, I think the dies used for the reverses were different.

AUandAG · May 26, 2007 9:55AM

Those markers you mention would be present on both coins if it's in the die, right? I believe these are not
the same coins but sisters for sure. There is a tick on the rim above the first T in STATES on one and not on
the other. Also there is some chatter on the rim in the area above AMERICA on one and not on the other.
Rim damage would be different from coin contact, stacking and such.
bob

DieClash · May 26, 2007 9:59AM

Just getting the images on page 2 so I don't have to keep going back and forth.

The best diagnostics that I can see so far are the hit below the Eagle's chin, the hit beneath the L in DOLLAR and most definitely diagnal line frmo the E in STATES outward to the rim as previously pointed out in this thread.

If they are different coins, then it sure looks like they came from the same die pair.

>>

roadrunner · May 26, 2007 11:12AM

The bottom pic does look like the Robison coin. There was a dark patch just under the eagle's legs in the field. Fetched $13,000.
Based on similar prices in Robison, that would be about 4X greater today. Robison was a good sale, I attended that one in person.
Essentially it was the very bottom of the coin market over the past 30 years.

When looking at that toned pic in the auction catalogue today I didn't like the look. Reminded me of that other Gobrecht that did get holdered, and probably from the same Doc. He's practicing his art where the gains and liquidity are the greatest.

roadrunner

speety · May 26, 2007 11:26AM

I would say yes. Look above the E in states and below the L in dollar.

This is a J-84, right? If so, TDN your's doesn't have either of those marks so it's not from the die.

tradedollarnut · May 26, 2007 11:56AM

<< I would say yes. Look above the E in states and below the L in dollar.

This is a J-84, right? If so, TDN your's doesn't have either of those marks so it's not from the die. >>

No, mine has neither of the marks. They aren't on the die.

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2007 4:38AM

ttt

Russ · May 28, 2007 4:51AM

Wow. That's some rarified air to be playing in.

Russ, NCNE

richardshipp · May 28, 2007 5:31AM

At first glance I thought "same coin"; but the more I look at the images the less sure I am. It could be the lighting but the lighter one seems better struck (a little).

I don't have the pics up in front of me as I type but look at the front strap of her sandal. Very apparent on the lighter coin, much less to non-existent on the toned one.

The last A in America and the A in Dollar also look different.

I don't know........ there are a lot of marks that are very very similar as well.

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2007 5:43AM

Look at the tiny tick just to the right of the 4th star. It is clearly visible on both coins. It would defy even the most vivid imagination to suggest coincidence, particularly with the similar marks on the reverse.

richardshipp · May 28, 2007 5:51AM

<< Look at the tiny tick just to the right of the 4th star. It is clearly visible on both coins. It would defy even the most vivid imagination to suggest coincidence, particularly with the similar marks on the reverse. >>

OK, I'm convinced now its the same coin.

I think I'll stick to my widgets.

mercurydimeguy · May 28, 2007 5:58AM

Different coins...too many difference between the two.

/mdg.

tradedollarnut · May 28, 2007 6:32AM

<< Different coins...too many difference between the two.

/mdg. >>

Such as?

SFDukie · July 26, 2007 3:28PM

Missed this the first time around, Bruce. Thanks for it.
Don

Connecticoin · July 26, 2007 10:38PM

The doctored Gobrecht looks a lot like a recently discussed Seated Dollar that NGC blessed with a PR66:

shish · July 26, 2007 11:12PM

I think they are the same coin. The only diagnostic I see that doesn't appear to match are the three points on the thirteenth star that appear to be slightly doubled on the 1st image. Perhaps this is an artifact of the re-toning.

NonCents · August 4, 2007 7:37PM

Yes, it's the same coin IMO. They both have the same mark next to the F in OF as someone pointed out earlier and they both have the same mark above the
E.

roadrunner · August 4, 2007 11:08PM

Now will the CAC sticker such a coin?

roadrunner

AUandAG · August 5, 2007 1:03AM

no
small inside rim nick on 2nd between CA in america not on first.
marks between head and 8th star not on 2nd.

bob

DJCoinz · August 5, 2007 1:22AM

It's definitely the same coin.

Edscoin · August 5, 2007 1:56AM

Looks like the same coin to me

Type2 · August 5, 2007 2:10AM

<< These comparisons are always easier for me when the photos are side-by-side (and I know that Bochiman agrees

). I say that they're likely the same coin, based mostly on the reverse markers that others have already pointed out. Edited to add: But I'm still a long way from certain.

>>

YES, on top of the E in state you can see a scrach on bouth.

Doogy · August 5, 2007 3:15AM

think PCGS will make any attempt to try to buy back this Frankenstein?

Russ · August 5, 2007 4:32AM

<< think PCGS will make any attempt to try to buy back this Frankenstein? >>

Why should PCGS buy this coin?

Russ, NCNE

Shamika · August 5, 2007 4:45AM

I'm not 100% sure they are the same coin although I'll admit you're probably right. With the exception of the rim mark just above Liberty's head, the other anomolies may simply be die markers.

Doogy · August 5, 2007 1:53PM

<< 

<< think PCGS will make any attempt to try to buy back this Frankenstein? >>

Why should PCGS buy this coin?

Russ, NCNE >>

yeah, you're right. Slab all the rare AT coins, because hey, they're market acceptable! the fact that its former home was an NCS slab with a 'Cleaned' designation shouldn't stop anyone from paying big bucks and adding it to their PCGS set registry, should it?

Ronyahski · August 5, 2007 2:06PM

I haven't seen the coin in question in hand, but I've seen several lately very much like it. It's scary to think these are recent phenoms, because that means smoebody is getting very, very good at what they do.

Dave99B · August 5, 2007 2:58PM

The same coin --- no doubt in my mind.

Dave

Are these the same coin?

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