Latest Waverly auction.......absolutely insane.

RonBurgundy · August 17, 2006 2:17AM

I've been thinking about completing a '61 Topps set and noticed Waverly's auction of 61's now on Ebay. I have not bought from him but have noticed the commentary about him on this board. Some of the prices with almost 5 days to go in his auctions are INSANE. So far, people have bid at, or almost at, SMR prices for several cards in PSA 8 and I'm sure the bidding will go higher. The bidding for the tough Bob Cerv high number is over $100 so far for a card that has an ugly tilt to it. The Mantle is at $776 when you can pick up a graded 8 for about $950. The Aaron is already approaching SMR for a PSA 8. Obviously some people are in these auctions hoping that the descriptions of "Mint" and "Gem Mint" are going to yield PSA 9's. Those people are likely to be sorely disappointed.

Stay classy,

Ron

ldferg · August 17, 2006 2:33AM

what about his 73s from last week? i thought the schmidt was high for a raw example and centering it showed.

he gets high dollar for some of his cards.

Carew29 · August 17, 2006 2:45AM

Already learned my lesson with PSA

RonBurgundy · August 17, 2006 2:53AM

Carew - I guess he can't recolor 61's, eh? Perhaps the trimming knife is out?

Ron

blindflyer · August 17, 2006 3:20AM

I bought a handful of '60 Topps from Waverly. I haven't sent most of them into PSA yet, but overall I thought they were graded fairly. However, the price point isn't really worth it. I didn't pay much less than what I'd pay for an already slabbed PSA 8 --- and I'm almost certain I'll get a decent chunk of 7's and maybe even a 6 or two in the batch I bought from him.

He must have a great reputation --- his auctions always seem to go for top dollar.

-t

RonBurgundy · August 17, 2006 3:25AM

However, the price point isn't really worth it. I didn't pay much less than what I'd pay for an already slabbed PSA 8Text

That is my point. If I am going to spend that much money, I will almost always buy a graded card, unless it is a star card that I think is undergraded for the price.

Ron

slatsme · August 17, 2006 3:26AM

Ron - Interesting comment. Bought some 62's and PSA told me they couldn't grade them - you can figure it out. Never again with this guy. And I agree some of the coin he gets for his raw is outlandish.

Brick Tamlin

gemint · August 17, 2006 4:39AM

I wonder if he consigns? I have quite a few high grade vintage cards that I don't submit because the market isn't there for PSA 8's for those cards. If I could get close to SMR for raw cards, I'd be moving my retirement date in by 20 years!

ctsoxfan · August 17, 2006 6:04AM

I bought several 71's from him a while back, and they all came back from PSA "recolored". Then, not learning my lesson, I tried some 75's from one of his "incredible Mint set breaks!" - and got a nice beatdown in the form of 6's and 7's.

It's all hype with him, but people still line up with a dollar and a dream.

SDavid · August 17, 2006 7:00AM

If you look at what he's buying, a lot of those sets really don't appear to be that strong. He might have another buying id (most dealers seem to these days) and he may be buying some of these sets off ebay, but if his purchases under that account are any indication of what he's selling, I wouldn't expect too many vintage 9's. A dealer is only as good as his source.

bri2327 · August 17, 2006 7:08AM

Ive heard enough dirt to stay far away from those auctions. I also dont believe for a second that there isnt something fishy in the bidding going on.

larryallen73 · August 17, 2006 7:17AM

Why do people bid on this guy after all the above? Strange.

Treetop · August 17, 2006 7:28AM

Why do people bid on this guy after all the above? Strange.

IMO, many of the people buying aren't tuned into grading or don't really care about 3rd party grading. Grading is a lot more tougher than in the past and many see an exmt/nrmt card as mint and are perfectly happy with that.

He (waverly) appears to be consistent with his grading and that probably goes along ways with the people that buy his cards

gregm13 · August 17, 2006 7:34AM

<< Why do people bid on this guy after all the above? Strange.

IMO, many of the people buying aren't tuned into grading or don't really care about 3rd party grading. Grading is a lot more tougher than in the past and many see an exmt/nrmt card as mint and are perfectly happy with that.

He (waverly) appears to be consistent with his grading and that probably goes along ways with the people that buy his cards >>

I bought from him once and never again. I paid $75 or so for a Bobby Bell rc and when I received it, there was a nice crease running through the card. It took 2 or 3 e-mails before he responded and he did refund my $ after returning the card. As I said, never again.

Regards,

Greg M.

SDavid · August 17, 2006 7:42AM

IMO, many of the people buying aren't tuned into grading or don't really care about 3rd party grading. Grading is a lot more tougher than in the past and many see an exmt/nrmt card as mint and are perfectly happy with that.

Agreed. Most of the raw cards on scambay are so crappy that his cards are probably jewels in comparison. Also, if some of the cards are altered, most collectors are not very good at detecting professional alterations on their own.

RonBurgundy · August 17, 2006 7:52AM

I think part of the problem I have is this:

THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.

That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.

Ron

Carew29 · August 17, 2006 7:59AM

I have not purchased any cards since my fiasco with PSA on his auctions, but that's where i draw the line.

Easy 8's,9's,and 10's?????
--------------------------------------
read em and weep folks. Here was my waverly test.

2 31510886 1962 TOPPS 69 PHIL ORTEGA N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
3 31510887 1962 TOPPS 418 ANDY CAREY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
4 31510888 1965 TOPPS 126 DODGERS TEAM N/A 7
5 31510889 1967 TOPPS 12 DODGERS ROOKIES J.CAMPANIS/B.SINGER Not Holdered, Re-Colored
6 31510890 1967 TOPPS 130 PHIL REGAN N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
7 31510891 1967 TOPPS 160 WILLIE DAVIS N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored

and a beautiful 71 Topps Don Sutton Re-Colored which pissed me off the most!!

gemint · August 17, 2006 8:32AM

<< I think part of the problem I have is this:

THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.

That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.

Ron >>

To be fair, he has taken back cards PSA rejected, cards that I detected recoloring or an undisclosed crease when I've bought them from him in the past. However, who wants to bother with the hassle of returning them and then the shipping costs that are still lost?

I just looked at the '61s. I've never seen so many Gem Mint '61s in one place! It must be an unmolested presentation set he's breaking. Is it me or does the Mantle look like it has scuffing along the left edge?

ctsoxfan · August 17, 2006 2:25PM

<< I think part of the problem I have is this:

THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.

That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.

Ron >>

I agree with this. With my 71's, it took 7-10 days to get them. Then, by the time I could submit them to PSA, another week passed. With transit times back and forth and actual grading time, another few weeks pass before I get my bad news. Now, after all this time passes, who would bother contacting him for a refund? I didn't. But, if he's going to imply that his cards would grade so highly with PSA that is another story, and he should stand behind that for as long as it takes to get them graded. Otherwise, he should keep such hyperbole out of his auctions, and just sell them for what they are.

RonBurgundy · August 19, 2006 4:44AM

I decided to test Waverly out, and so I emailed him and asked him if he would guarantee that his cards are authentic and unaltered. This was 2 days ago and I have not received a response. The silence is deafening.

Ron

Boopotts · August 19, 2006 6:31AM

<< I think part of the problem I have is this:

THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.

That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.

Ron >>

lol at the thought of shaderise being one of the hobby's white hats.

gemint · August 19, 2006 10:57AM

Did anyone know the person who won the 1963 "mint" Pete Rose rookie he auctioned a year or two ago? It looked great in the scan but I'm wondering if it was recolored. I contemplated winning it, overnighting it to PSA for express grading and then being able to return it for a refund if it was rejected. I've wondered if/how that card graded.

brianwintersfan · August 19, 2006 11:19AM

<< RETURNS WILL BE GRANTED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. BUYER MUST CONTACT ME WITHIN 7 DAYS FROM POSTMARK DATE WITH REQUEST AND I WILL PROMPTLY RESPOND. ANY REQUESTS OUTSIDE THE SPECIFIED WINDOW WILL NO LONGER BE CONSIDERED. NO EXCEPTIONS >>

This makes it tough to get anything graded does it not. Plus I'm of the belief that if these cards are so damn great why not grade them and make some real $$.
I bought one card from him. A 1976-77 Topps Elvin Hayes listed as mint. It had a roller mark that even Helen Keller or Stevie Wonder could see!
Was it a great deal of money?? No. But the point is that it wasn't mint as advertised.

bri2327 · August 19, 2006 11:25AM

Here is the thing that gets me the most. How many collectors are still out there who spend big $$ on high grade with intentions on keeping them raw ?

Most people on these boards seem well aware of the nature of this seller ( overgrading, tampered cards, etc )

That being said, doesnt it seem highly probably that for the money this dealers cards realize compared to other sellers, that there is some funny business involved in the bidding ? How can this dealer consistently achieve prices so much higher than others ?

slatsme · August 19, 2006 11:41AM

BWin - I have to agree with you. If this guy is so confident his cards will grade out at 9's and 10's, why not just send them in yourself. To me, that is more telling than anything else.

PS - I also asked the question about standing behind what he sells this morning - no reply as of now.

Boopotts · August 19, 2006 11:41AM

<< Here is the thing that gets me the most. How many collectors are still out there who spend big $$ on high grade with intentions on keeping them raw ?

Most people on these boards seem well aware of the nature of this seller ( overgrading, tampered cards, etc )

That being said, doesnt it seem highly probably that for the money this dealers cards realize compared to other sellers, that there is some funny business involved in the bidding ? How can this dealer consistently achieve prices so much higher than others ? >>

Because despite what you've read here most of his cards are authentic, and unaltered, and usually at worst only 1/2 to 1 grade lower then advertised. If you buy a card from him that's listed as 'mint' it will come back as an 8 from PSA most of the time. When it comes to bulk dealers in raw cards there aren't many that are better than waverly. You've read some horror stories here, but what surprises me is that nobody has come forward and admitted to having decent transactions with the guy, because I know you're out there.

jayhawke · August 20, 2006 3:51AM

I bought a few 1961 topps baseball cards from him a year to two ago and they were as advertised. He advertised them as nm-mt and they came back psa 8's. I bid as if the cards would grade 7's. I was happy with my purchases.

ColleSystem · August 20, 2006 4:04AM

<< Did anyone know the person who won the 1963 "mint" Pete Rose rookie he auctioned a year or two ago? It looked great in the scan but I'm wondering if it was recolored. I contemplated winning it, overnighting it to PSA for express grading and then being able to return it for a refund if it was rejected. I've wondered if/how that card graded. >>

You'd be fine just sending it in for a 5 to 10 day grade. If it is altered, just file a pay pal claim. (I don't think you would need to because, he will probably refund you).

I bought a 1971 Topps Munson and a 1971 Topps Reggie Jackson from him. I recieved a refund for the munson, just because I wasn't happy with it. I then sent the Reggie in to have graded. The reggie was graded about a week and a half after that and came back as recolored. I filed a pay pal claim, but Waverly offered the refund to me anyway. He then politely asked that I not participate in any more of his auctions, and I left it at that.

Carew29 · August 20, 2006 7:40AM

Join the club of being asked not to participate!!

RonBurgundy · August 20, 2006 9:49AM

2 points to the last few messages:

1) "He then politely asked that I not participate in any more of his auctions, and I left it at that." Why? What did you do wrong, other than buy an altered card unknowingly?

2) FYI, if I portrayed Shaderise as a "white hat" that was not the intention. I was merely pointing out that he stands behind his cards as being unaltered. I cannot speak to whatever transactions people have had with him, merely the guarantee he provides in his auctions. I can say that I have bought from him and received cards that were undergraded, graded properly, and overgraded.

Ron

Bosox1976 · November 3, 2006 1:15PM

Two more reasons to avoid Waverly82's auctions... (bought in July, before this thread)...

chopper · November 3, 2006 2:11PM

Dont let my post count fool you ....I have been around a long long time. I too am on the list of being asked not to participate in his auctions due to getting refunds for recolored,trimmed and altered cards.I was batting an overall 1/4. The one good transaction was with some 72s.A few 8s and a 9 on a Rick Dempsey RC.
The three bad deals involved recoloring with 71s,another time with 75s,some corner pressing on 60s ,and finally a package that never showed period.In every case he refunded the money. Im done.It blows my mind the prices he gets.

gemint · November 4, 2006 10:13AM

<< Dont let my post count fool you ....I have been around a long long time. I too am on the list of being asked not to participate in his auctions due to getting refunds for recolored,trimmed and altered cards.I was batting an overall 1/4. The one good transaction was with some 72s.A few 8s and a 9 on a Rick Dempsey RC.
The three bad deals involved recoloring with 71s,another time with 75s,some corner pressing on 60s ,and finally a package that never showed period.In every case he refunded the money. Im done.It blows my mind the prices he gets. >>

He seems to stumble across an amazingly high percentage of altered cards. I've returned a handful of 1975's and I still own a $50 1957 common that came back trimmed both times I submitted it.

Carew29 · November 10, 2006 1:21AM

Nice to see some of you are starting to wake up to the fact of what Eric is all about. All you had to do was look at my thread at the beginning of this year to see that almost all of his cards came back recolored. I strictly bought common Dodger cards from the 60's and early 70's and nearly everyone of them came back that way.

2 31510886 1962 TOPPS 69 PHIL ORTEGA N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
3 31510887 1962 TOPPS 418 ANDY CAREY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
5 31510889 1967 TOPPS 12 DODGERS ROOKIES J.CAMPANIS/B.SINGER Not Holdered, Re-Colored
6 31510890 1967 TOPPS 130 PHIL REGAN N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
15 31510899 1971 TOPPS 361 DON SUTTON N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
16 31510900 1971 TOPPS 430 WES PARKER N/A 8

Date Received: 02/28/2006
Date of Grades Posted: 03/03/2006

sagard · November 10, 2006 1:39AM

Has anyone been able to detect the coloring that has been found on some of Eric's cards? I had a couple get kicked and I can not find the coloring at all. Not a drop on the edges, not a trace under a black light. Nothing unusual under a 10x magnifier.

Just to relive my experience:

174 Larry Burright - Eric says: nrmt/mt. Solid card but there was some not visible in the auction scan print snow. I think PSA will call it a 7.
PSA says - 8 nrmt/mt

197 Roger Craig - Eric says: Mint. This card had a weird (very) hard to see wrinkle along an edge. Since I saw it, I figure PSA would see it and I returned it.

327 Paul Foytack - Eric says: nrmt+. Rock solid. Chance at an 8.
PSA says - Re-colored

328 Dick Williams - Eric says: nrmt+. I say recolored corner. This may not have been the case and I would have submitted it to find out, but he just wanted me to return it.

337 Dodgers Team - Eric says: nrmt+. I say nrmt with little chance of a six or an eight.
PSA says - Re-colored

354 Zanni - Eric says: nrmt+. I say nrmt+. The centering is 65/35 L/R, but this card would not look out of place in 8 holder.
PSA says - 8 nrmt/mt

442 Hartman - Eric says: Mint. The card mint, but was just a hair too short and had lots of print dots in the green border. I returned this card.

I ended up keeping four of seven cards. Two of the three returns might have made the advertised grade at PSA. One I didn't want to risk keeping (Hartman), the other (Williams) he wanted to stick to his seven day return policy and not have me submit it.

blindflyer · January 27, 2007 6:04PM

Waverly has a number of auctions ending in a few days that I am very interested in ....

Any more news on Waverly? Any other experiences?

Should I avoid this guy like the plague?

-Tom

leadoff4 · January 28, 2007 12:08AM

Great info. here. I can take him off my favorite sellers list. Thanks guys!!

blindflyer · January 28, 2007 3:20AM

Any more Waverly updates?

Am I truly playing with fire to deal with this guy at all?

-t

WinPitcher · January 28, 2007 3:28AM

If you are buying these cards so you can have them graded i'd say forget it.

However, if you are buying them for a raw set, take the chance. He does have a good return policy.

I have bought a few cards from Eric and never had a problem.

then again I did not submit the cards either.

Steve

kadokakid · January 28, 2007 3:45AM

I purchased some cards from Eric, didn't have any problem, the cards were fairly graded imo.

Peace

Doug

markj111 · January 29, 2007 4:32AM

I have bought a few cards from him. Most were eights, but a couple came back as 7s. If you bid appropriately you can do ok.

Boopotts · January 29, 2007 6:27AM

<< Any more Waverly updates?

Am I truly playing with fire to deal with this guy at all?

-t >>

No, because he has a decent return policy.

blindflyer · January 29, 2007 9:02AM

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

-t

Carew29 · January 29, 2007 9:30AM

Here is some food for thought----What the heck do you think he has done with all of these cards that came back re-colored? Hmmmmmm, re-sell them again at a later date? we are not talking just a few cards here either, from other threads on Eric i would say several hundred(give or take 10).

HeritageAddict · May 21, 2007 5:05AM

I have to admit I read this thread after I had submitted some of the cards I had won from his auctions and I was a little worried. After the grades popped I felt much better though. Here are the results of the Waverly cards I submitted:

CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
31836056 1958 TOPPS 364 EARL BATTEY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
31836051 1958 TOPPS 89 BILLY KLAUS N/A 6
31836052 1958 TOPPS 104 JIM PENDLETON N/A 6
31836053 1958 TOPPS 153 LES MOSS N/A 7MK
31836057 1958 TOPPS 388 BILLY MORAN N/A 8
31836058 1958 TOPPS 489 JACKIE JENSEN ALL STAR 7
31836060 1961 TOPPS 61 RON PICHE N/A 9
31836061 1961 TOPPS 155 JOHNNY TEMPLE N/A 8
31836062 1961 TOPPS 432 COOT VEAL N/A 6
31836063 1961 TOPPS 451 POWER FOR ERNIE SPENCER/WHITE/BROGLIO 9

So 90% of the cards graded, which seems pretty good to me. I think anytime your buy raw cards for submission purposes from ebay you are taking a chance, there is just no telling how many people have had their hands on any particular card before it got to the ebay seller especially when it comes to vintage. I have to say that I had much better luck with Waverly's cards than I have had with a number of other sellers.

sagard · May 21, 2007 5:08AM

Can you remember what he had them graded in his auctions?

HeritageAddict · May 21, 2007 5:31AM

They were recent enough that I still have the old auctions for all except 1, I was a little dissappointed in the 58's grades because compared to my other 58's they should have all been atleast 7's(except the Les Moss, which the marks were so light on the back I didn't notice them).

364 EARL BATTEY stated NM
89 BILLY KLAUS stated NM (I still think it really looks like a 7 or maybe an 8)
104 JIM PENDLETON stated NM
153 LES MOSS N/A 7MK I can't find the auction
388 BILLY MORAN N/A 8 stated NM
JACKIE JENSEN ALL STAR 7 stated NM/MT
61 RON PICHE N/A 9 stated Mint
155 JOHNNY TEMPLE N/A 8 stated Mint
432 COOT VEAL N/A 6 stated NM/MT (I still can't tell why it graded this low)
451 POWER FOR ERNIE SPENCER/WHITE/BROGLIO 9 stated Mint

kadokakid · May 21, 2007 6:21AM

Looks like your results were extremely good considering purchased via EBAY, small scan to look at.

I have purchased a few cards from Waverly and I was pleased with them as well.

Peace

Doug

Ahmanfan · May 21, 2007 6:29AM

I'd be suprised to get a 9 on a '61 , from ebay or not.

Latest Waverly auction.......absolutely insane.

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