Latest Waverly auction.......absolutely insane.
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
I've been thinking about completing a '61 Topps set and noticed Waverly's auction of 61's now on Ebay. I have not bought from him but have noticed the commentary about him on this board. Some of the prices with almost 5 days to go in his auctions are INSANE. So far, people have bid at, or almost at, SMR prices for several cards in PSA 8 and I'm sure the bidding will go higher. The bidding for the tough Bob Cerv high number is over $100 so far for a card that has an ugly tilt to it. The Mantle is at $776 when you can pick up a graded 8 for about $950. The Aaron is already approaching SMR for a PSA 8. Obviously some people are in these auctions hoping that the descriptions of "Mint" and "Gem Mint" are going to yield PSA 9's. Those people are likely to be sorely disappointed.
Stay classy,
Ron
Stay classy,
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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Comments
he gets high dollar for some of his cards.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Already learned my lesson with PSA
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
He must have a great reputation --- his auctions always seem to go for top dollar.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
That is my point. If I am going to spend that much money, I will almost always buy a graded card, unless it is a star card that I think is undergraded for the price.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Brick Tamlin
It's all hype with him, but people still line up with a dollar and a dream.
-- Yogi Berra
IMO, many of the people buying aren't tuned into grading or don't really care about 3rd party grading. Grading is a lot more tougher than in the past and many see an exmt/nrmt card as mint and are perfectly happy with that.
He (waverly) appears to be consistent with his grading and that probably goes along ways with the people that buy his cards
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
<< <i>Why do people bid on this guy after all the above? Strange.
IMO, many of the people buying aren't tuned into grading or don't really care about 3rd party grading. Grading is a lot more tougher than in the past and many see an exmt/nrmt card as mint and are perfectly happy with that.
He (waverly) appears to be consistent with his grading and that probably goes along ways with the people that buy his cards >>
I bought from him once and never again. I paid $75 or so for a Bobby Bell rc and when I received it, there was a nice crease running through the card. It took 2 or 3 e-mails before he responded and he did refund my $ after returning the card. As I said, never again.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Agreed. Most of the raw cards on scambay are so crappy that his cards are probably jewels in comparison. Also, if some of the cards are altered, most collectors are not very good at detecting professional alterations on their own.
THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.
That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
I have not purchased any cards since my fiasco with PSA on his auctions, but that's where i draw the line.
Easy 8's,9's,and 10's?????
--------------------------------------
read em and weep folks. Here was my waverly test.
2 31510886 1962 TOPPS 69 PHIL ORTEGA N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
3 31510887 1962 TOPPS 418 ANDY CAREY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
4 31510888 1965 TOPPS 126 DODGERS TEAM N/A 7
5 31510889 1967 TOPPS 12 DODGERS ROOKIES J.CAMPANIS/B.SINGER Not Holdered, Re-Colored
6 31510890 1967 TOPPS 130 PHIL REGAN N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
7 31510891 1967 TOPPS 160 WILLIE DAVIS N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
and a beautiful 71 Topps Don Sutton Re-Colored which pissed me off the most!!
<< <i>I think part of the problem I have is this:
THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.
That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.
Ron >>
To be fair, he has taken back cards PSA rejected, cards that I detected recoloring or an undisclosed crease when I've bought them from him in the past. However, who wants to bother with the hassle of returning them and then the shipping costs that are still lost?
I just looked at the '61s. I've never seen so many Gem Mint '61s in one place! It must be an unmolested presentation set he's breaking. Is it me or does the Mantle look like it has scuffing along the left edge?
<< <i>I think part of the problem I have is this:
THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.
That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.
Ron >>
I agree with this. With my 71's, it took 7-10 days to get them. Then, by the time I could submit them to PSA, another week passed. With transit times back and forth and actual grading time, another few weeks pass before I get my bad news. Now, after all this time passes, who would bother contacting him for a refund? I didn't. But, if he's going to imply that his cards would grade so highly with PSA that is another story, and he should stand behind that for as long as it takes to get them graded. Otherwise, he should keep such hyperbole out of his auctions, and just sell them for what they are.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>I think part of the problem I have is this:
THERE ARE TONS OF EASY PSA 8'S AND 9'S IN THIS GROUP, WITH SEVERAL 10'S AS WELL.
That is taken from his listing. If he believes this to be the case, then he should guarantee that his cards are unaltered and authentic and will be graded by a third party grading company, as well as offer a refund if this turns out not to be the case. Other Ebay sellers who sell a lot of raw (shaderise comes to mind) do that and they don't even make statements such as the above. In my mind, if a seller is going to represent his lot as having "tons" of high grade PSA cards, then he should back it up by offering a refund if PSA or another grading company rejects them.
Ron >>
lol at the thought of shaderise being one of the hobby's white hats.
<< <i>RETURNS WILL BE GRANTED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. BUYER MUST CONTACT ME WITHIN 7 DAYS FROM POSTMARK DATE WITH REQUEST AND I WILL PROMPTLY RESPOND. ANY REQUESTS OUTSIDE THE SPECIFIED WINDOW WILL NO LONGER BE CONSIDERED. NO EXCEPTIONS >>
This makes it tough to get anything graded does it not. Plus I'm of the belief that if these cards are so damn great why not grade them and make some real $$.
I bought one card from him. A 1976-77 Topps Elvin Hayes listed as mint. It had a roller mark that even Helen Keller or Stevie Wonder could see!
Was it a great deal of money?? No. But the point is that it wasn't mint as advertised.
Most people on these boards seem well aware of the nature of this seller ( overgrading, tampered cards, etc )
That being said, doesnt it seem highly probably that for the money this dealers cards realize compared to other sellers, that there is some funny business involved in the bidding ? How can this dealer consistently achieve prices so much higher than others ?
-- Yogi Berra
PS - I also asked the question about standing behind what he sells this morning - no reply as of now.
<< <i>Here is the thing that gets me the most. How many collectors are still out there who spend big $$ on high grade with intentions on keeping them raw ?
Most people on these boards seem well aware of the nature of this seller ( overgrading, tampered cards, etc )
That being said, doesnt it seem highly probably that for the money this dealers cards realize compared to other sellers, that there is some funny business involved in the bidding ? How can this dealer consistently achieve prices so much higher than others ? >>
Because despite what you've read here most of his cards are authentic, and unaltered, and usually at worst only 1/2 to 1 grade lower then advertised. If you buy a card from him that's listed as 'mint' it will come back as an 8 from PSA most of the time. When it comes to bulk dealers in raw cards there aren't many that are better than waverly. You've read some horror stories here, but what surprises me is that nobody has come forward and admitted to having decent transactions with the guy, because I know you're out there.
<< <i> Did anyone know the person who won the 1963 "mint" Pete Rose rookie he auctioned a year or two ago? It looked great in the scan but I'm wondering if it was recolored. I contemplated winning it, overnighting it to PSA for express grading and then being able to return it for a refund if it was rejected. I've wondered if/how that card graded. >>
You'd be fine just sending it in for a 5 to 10 day grade. If it is altered, just file a pay pal claim. (I don't think you would need to because, he will probably refund you).
I bought a 1971 Topps Munson and a 1971 Topps Reggie Jackson from him. I recieved a refund for the munson, just because I wasn't happy with it. I then sent the Reggie in to have graded. The reggie was graded about a week and a half after that and came back as recolored. I filed a pay pal claim, but Waverly offered the refund to me anyway. He then politely asked that I not participate in any more of his auctions, and I left it at that.
1977 Topps Star Wars - "Space Swashbucklers"
Join the club of being asked not to participate!!
1) "He then politely asked that I not participate in any more of his auctions, and I left it at that." Why? What did you do wrong, other than buy an altered card unknowingly?
2) FYI, if I portrayed Shaderise as a "white hat" that was not the intention. I was merely pointing out that he stands behind his cards as being unaltered. I cannot speak to whatever transactions people have had with him, merely the guarantee he provides in his auctions. I can say that I have bought from him and received cards that were undergraded, graded properly, and overgraded.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Bosox1976
The three bad deals involved recoloring with 71s,another time with 75s,some corner pressing on 60s ,and finally a package that never showed period.In every case he refunded the money. Im done.It blows my mind the prices he gets.
<< <i>Dont let my post count fool you ....I have been around a long long time. I too am on the list of being asked not to participate in his auctions due to getting refunds for recolored,trimmed and altered cards.I was batting an overall 1/4. The one good transaction was with some 72s.A few 8s and a 9 on a Rick Dempsey RC.
The three bad deals involved recoloring with 71s,another time with 75s,some corner pressing on 60s ,and finally a package that never showed period.In every case he refunded the money. Im done.It blows my mind the prices he gets. >>
He seems to stumble across an amazingly high percentage of altered cards. I've returned a handful of 1975's and I still own a $50 1957 common that came back trimmed both times I submitted it.
Nice to see some of you are starting to wake up to the fact of what Eric is all about. All you had to do was look at my thread at the beginning of this year to see that almost all of his cards came back recolored. I strictly bought common Dodger cards from the 60's and early 70's and nearly everyone of them came back that way.
2 31510886 1962 TOPPS 69 PHIL ORTEGA N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
3 31510887 1962 TOPPS 418 ANDY CAREY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
5 31510889 1967 TOPPS 12 DODGERS ROOKIES J.CAMPANIS/B.SINGER Not Holdered, Re-Colored
6 31510890 1967 TOPPS 130 PHIL REGAN N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
15 31510899 1971 TOPPS 361 DON SUTTON N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
16 31510900 1971 TOPPS 430 WES PARKER N/A 8
Date Received: 02/28/2006
Date of Grades Posted: 03/03/2006
Just to relive my experience:
174 Larry Burright - Eric says: nrmt/mt. Solid card but there was some not visible in the auction scan print snow. I think PSA will call it a 7.
PSA says - 8 nrmt/mt
197 Roger Craig - Eric says: Mint. This card had a weird (very) hard to see wrinkle along an edge. Since I saw it, I figure PSA would see it and I returned it.
327 Paul Foytack - Eric says: nrmt+. Rock solid. Chance at an 8.
PSA says - Re-colored
328 Dick Williams - Eric says: nrmt+. I say recolored corner. This may not have been the case and I would have submitted it to find out, but he just wanted me to return it.
337 Dodgers Team - Eric says: nrmt+. I say nrmt with little chance of a six or an eight.
PSA says - Re-colored
354 Zanni - Eric says: nrmt+. I say nrmt+. The centering is 65/35 L/R, but this card would not look out of place in 8 holder.
PSA says - 8 nrmt/mt
442 Hartman - Eric says: Mint. The card mint, but was just a hair too short and had lots of print dots in the green border. I returned this card.
I ended up keeping four of seven cards. Two of the three returns might have made the advertised grade at PSA. One I didn't want to risk keeping (Hartman), the other (Williams) he wanted to stick to his seven day return policy and not have me submit it.
Any more news on Waverly? Any other experiences?
Should I avoid this guy like the plague?
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Am I truly playing with fire to deal with this guy at all?
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
However, if you are buying them for a raw set, take the chance. He does have a good return policy.
I have bought a few cards from Eric and never had a problem.
then again I did not submit the cards either.
Steve
Peace
Doug
45% complete.
<< <i>Any more Waverly updates?
Am I truly playing with fire to deal with this guy at all?
-t >>
No, because he has a decent return policy.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Here is some food for thought----What the heck do you think he has done with all of these cards that came back re-colored? Hmmmmmm, re-sell them again at a later date? we are not talking just a few cards here either, from other threads on Eric i would say several hundred(give or take 10).
CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
31836056 1958 TOPPS 364 EARL BATTEY N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
31836051 1958 TOPPS 89 BILLY KLAUS N/A 6
31836052 1958 TOPPS 104 JIM PENDLETON N/A 6
31836053 1958 TOPPS 153 LES MOSS N/A 7MK
31836057 1958 TOPPS 388 BILLY MORAN N/A 8
31836058 1958 TOPPS 489 JACKIE JENSEN ALL STAR 7
31836060 1961 TOPPS 61 RON PICHE N/A 9
31836061 1961 TOPPS 155 JOHNNY TEMPLE N/A 8
31836062 1961 TOPPS 432 COOT VEAL N/A 6
31836063 1961 TOPPS 451 POWER FOR ERNIE SPENCER/WHITE/BROGLIO 9
So 90% of the cards graded, which seems pretty good to me. I think anytime your buy raw cards for submission purposes from ebay you are taking a chance, there is just no telling how many people have had their hands on any particular card before it got to the ebay seller especially when it comes to vintage. I have to say that I had much better luck with Waverly's cards than I have had with a number of other sellers.
My Registry Sets
364 EARL BATTEY stated NM
89 BILLY KLAUS stated NM (I still think it really looks like a 7 or maybe an 8)
104 JIM PENDLETON stated NM
153 LES MOSS N/A 7MK I can't find the auction
388 BILLY MORAN N/A 8 stated NM
JACKIE JENSEN ALL STAR 7 stated NM/MT
61 RON PICHE N/A 9 stated Mint
155 JOHNNY TEMPLE N/A 8 stated Mint
432 COOT VEAL N/A 6 stated NM/MT (I still can't tell why it graded this low)
451 POWER FOR ERNIE SPENCER/WHITE/BROGLIO 9 stated Mint
My Registry Sets
I have purchased a few cards from Waverly and I was pleased with them as well.
Peace
Doug
45% complete.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS