PSA Slabs Counterfeit Ripken Minor League Issues
ripkenintheminors
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PSA Slabs Counterfeit Ripken Minor League Issues
May 18, 2007
In 2001, Beckett Grading Services revealed information on how to spot a 1981 WTF Rochester Red Wings card #1 of Cal Ripken, Jr. In the article, Beckett revealed how to spot a genuine WTF Ripken issue from a fraud on their website at http://www.beckett.com:
•The genuine card is printed on an off-white card stock, nearly yellowed, or ‘dirty-white,’ whereas the fake/reprint is on vivid bright white stock.
•The original weighs much more than the fake (1.73 grams compared to 1.49 grams on the fake) although both cards feel fairly thin to the touch.
•The dot pattern is a mild giveaway, but it is very close to the original. Primarily, the fake will have more specks of white scattered about the front photo, and will have more areas of lightly broken text on the back.
•The key area to examine is over Ripken's right shoulder, atop the roof. There should be a box shape -- a flag-like image or something similar -- on the very edge of the card. On the fake, most of this box has been obliterated.
Such early detection of this counterfeit by one of the big three third party grading services certainly provided collectors with a sense of security. In fact, in a February 2, 2007, article written by Doug Koztoski for Sports Collectors Digest, I stated that collectors should purchase copies of Cal’s minor league cards that have been graded by the most reputable professional card grading companies.
I’m sorry.
In an auction that ended on May 1, 2007, I won an auction for a PSA 9 (cert 31796188) 1981 WTF Rochester Red Wings Cal Ripken, Jr (Ebay 220106272908). Considering that a PSA 9 copy had sold for $1,924.00 on March 18, 2007 (Ebay 110102273191), I was especially thrilled.
Then the card arrived. It was a counterfeit.
Unfortunately I had not taken some of my other advice offered on my website, www.ripkenintheminors.com, when I suggested that collectors only purchase Ripken minor league issues when they came with the rest of the set. In addition, I did not ask for a larger scan of the card during the duration of the auction. I simply trusted in the PSA slab saying the card was authentic.
Bill Haelig is the owner of the most comprehensive Cal Ripken, Jr. card & memorabilia collection as well as the Authenticity Coordinator at Ironclad Authentics, Cal's own memorabilia company. Bill is not surprised that a fake was slabbed. “I'm not surprised that PSA graded these cards as authentic. My reasoning is that they couldn't have handled enough of them relative to their ‘normal’ influx of cards to have any real expertise. Again, out of all the WTF cards they have graded, how many were of Cal vs. how many were of Bob Bonner, Drungo Hazewood, etc. The majority of what they saw was Cal obviously. This particular manufacturer was a ‘one issue’ one that they had little to compare it to. To back up his point, the current population report reflects 115 graded 1981 WTF cards, with card #1 of Cal making up 77.4% of the total. The checklist card #20 that includes Ripken ranks second with 20%. Only three other non-Ripken WTF cards (Brooks Carey, Drungo Hazewood, Steve Luebber) have ever been submitted and were certified in the spring of 2007, making the non-Ripken population under 3%. Haelig is less than impressed. “So 97% of EVERY WTF card was either Cal or the checklist card (with Cal)? How could they establish any kind of expertise in this issue? Did they garner knowledge in the 1955 Bowman set by examining the Mickey Mantle cards or the Billy Loes cards of the world? Did they obtain expertise in the 1975 set by examining George Brett or Enos Cabell? It reeks of provincial incompetence if you ask me; I wouldn't consider changing my opinion until they initiate a public recall of the cards they graded.”
PSA did issue a reimbursement for the final sale price of the WTF counterfeit card plus the amount for shipping and insurance once they confirmed it was a fake. However, the refund does not erase the disappointment of not upgrading my PSA 8 to a PSA 9. The reimbursement also does not ease any concerns about a possible market impact on a market already plagued with counterfeits. Haelig added the following: “I think there is great impact on this, particularly for those card sets that weren't manufactured by the ‘big boys’ (Topps, Donruss, Fleer, Upper Deck, Bowman, Goudey, etc). Look at all the regional sets (which the majority of minor league sets are). I now look at all of those with a jaded eye. How do we know there aren't any PSA graded bogus Charlotte cards out there? Of course the TCMA card remains a possibility as well.”
It wasn’t long after receiving the counterfeit that I warned fellow collectors with a warning about the slabbed WTF counterfeit while giving PSA time to evaluate and confirm that my card was a fake. It was at this time that I received a note of concern from Trevor Dovey, a fellow Ripken minor league card collector, about the authenticity of his PSA 9 (cert 03427907) 1981 WTF Cal Ripken, Jr. After looking at scans of the Dovey PSA 9 WTF Ripken I determined it was also a fake. Once again, PSA offered a full refund for the card once they determined it to be a counterfeit.
Here is Trevor’s recollection on how he received the card:
“I bought my WTF PSA 9 for $185.00 Buy It Now off EBay. I bought it on August 13, 2006. I was very excited when I bought it because I hit the By It Now 5 minutes into the auction. I thought I got an amazing deal on a so called authentic PSA 9 Ripken. When I got home later that night I checked completed listings just to see if any PSA 9’s had sold recently and one had sold a few days before I bought mine. It sold for $900.00. I am not sure if it was real or not.”
The good news is that PSA is now fully aware of the counterfeit WTF issues. However, how much damage has been done? After all, we do know that it’s been 6 years since someone found out that BGS would not certify a counterfeit. We also know that as late as the spring of 2007 that PSA certified a counterfeit WTF issue. As of May 1, 2007, the population report stated there were 90 1981 WTF cards of Cal graded, with 23 PSA 9’s and 1 PSA 10. Although it’s a small sample size, we do know that 8.6% of that total PSA 9 population report as of May 1, 2007, was counterfeit. It is important to note that since purchasing the fake, PSA has deleted 1 PSA 9 from the registry. Under cert 03427907, www.psacard.com now lists the grade of what was once a PSA 9 as “Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication“.
Where do we go from here? Trevor Dovey suggested the following: “I would like to see PSA try to track down the rest of the 90 graded WTF copies. I think they should let it be known that there are fake cards in PSA slabs (have an article in magazines and also on online forums). Hopefully they can buy back all the fakes and reconstruct the population report. This way people will know how rare this card actually is.” Bill Haelig also feels that serious steps should be taken by PSA. “If PSA was serious about this, they would offer a public ‘recall’ of any WTF Ripken they graded for another inspection.”
The minor league cards of Cal Ripken, Jr, provide an often unseen glimpse of one of the great players and individuals of our generation. As collectors, it is our responsibility to uphold the integrity of our great hobby, especially on a market with so many knowingly taking advantage of others. The bad news is that this is a reminder of what is bad with our hobby. The good news is that the opportunity is here to do something about it.
Chris Dishman
www.ripkenintheminors.com
May 18, 2007
In 2001, Beckett Grading Services revealed information on how to spot a 1981 WTF Rochester Red Wings card #1 of Cal Ripken, Jr. In the article, Beckett revealed how to spot a genuine WTF Ripken issue from a fraud on their website at http://www.beckett.com:
•The genuine card is printed on an off-white card stock, nearly yellowed, or ‘dirty-white,’ whereas the fake/reprint is on vivid bright white stock.
•The original weighs much more than the fake (1.73 grams compared to 1.49 grams on the fake) although both cards feel fairly thin to the touch.
•The dot pattern is a mild giveaway, but it is very close to the original. Primarily, the fake will have more specks of white scattered about the front photo, and will have more areas of lightly broken text on the back.
•The key area to examine is over Ripken's right shoulder, atop the roof. There should be a box shape -- a flag-like image or something similar -- on the very edge of the card. On the fake, most of this box has been obliterated.
Such early detection of this counterfeit by one of the big three third party grading services certainly provided collectors with a sense of security. In fact, in a February 2, 2007, article written by Doug Koztoski for Sports Collectors Digest, I stated that collectors should purchase copies of Cal’s minor league cards that have been graded by the most reputable professional card grading companies.
I’m sorry.
In an auction that ended on May 1, 2007, I won an auction for a PSA 9 (cert 31796188) 1981 WTF Rochester Red Wings Cal Ripken, Jr (Ebay 220106272908). Considering that a PSA 9 copy had sold for $1,924.00 on March 18, 2007 (Ebay 110102273191), I was especially thrilled.
Then the card arrived. It was a counterfeit.
Unfortunately I had not taken some of my other advice offered on my website, www.ripkenintheminors.com, when I suggested that collectors only purchase Ripken minor league issues when they came with the rest of the set. In addition, I did not ask for a larger scan of the card during the duration of the auction. I simply trusted in the PSA slab saying the card was authentic.
Bill Haelig is the owner of the most comprehensive Cal Ripken, Jr. card & memorabilia collection as well as the Authenticity Coordinator at Ironclad Authentics, Cal's own memorabilia company. Bill is not surprised that a fake was slabbed. “I'm not surprised that PSA graded these cards as authentic. My reasoning is that they couldn't have handled enough of them relative to their ‘normal’ influx of cards to have any real expertise. Again, out of all the WTF cards they have graded, how many were of Cal vs. how many were of Bob Bonner, Drungo Hazewood, etc. The majority of what they saw was Cal obviously. This particular manufacturer was a ‘one issue’ one that they had little to compare it to. To back up his point, the current population report reflects 115 graded 1981 WTF cards, with card #1 of Cal making up 77.4% of the total. The checklist card #20 that includes Ripken ranks second with 20%. Only three other non-Ripken WTF cards (Brooks Carey, Drungo Hazewood, Steve Luebber) have ever been submitted and were certified in the spring of 2007, making the non-Ripken population under 3%. Haelig is less than impressed. “So 97% of EVERY WTF card was either Cal or the checklist card (with Cal)? How could they establish any kind of expertise in this issue? Did they garner knowledge in the 1955 Bowman set by examining the Mickey Mantle cards or the Billy Loes cards of the world? Did they obtain expertise in the 1975 set by examining George Brett or Enos Cabell? It reeks of provincial incompetence if you ask me; I wouldn't consider changing my opinion until they initiate a public recall of the cards they graded.”
PSA did issue a reimbursement for the final sale price of the WTF counterfeit card plus the amount for shipping and insurance once they confirmed it was a fake. However, the refund does not erase the disappointment of not upgrading my PSA 8 to a PSA 9. The reimbursement also does not ease any concerns about a possible market impact on a market already plagued with counterfeits. Haelig added the following: “I think there is great impact on this, particularly for those card sets that weren't manufactured by the ‘big boys’ (Topps, Donruss, Fleer, Upper Deck, Bowman, Goudey, etc). Look at all the regional sets (which the majority of minor league sets are). I now look at all of those with a jaded eye. How do we know there aren't any PSA graded bogus Charlotte cards out there? Of course the TCMA card remains a possibility as well.”
It wasn’t long after receiving the counterfeit that I warned fellow collectors with a warning about the slabbed WTF counterfeit while giving PSA time to evaluate and confirm that my card was a fake. It was at this time that I received a note of concern from Trevor Dovey, a fellow Ripken minor league card collector, about the authenticity of his PSA 9 (cert 03427907) 1981 WTF Cal Ripken, Jr. After looking at scans of the Dovey PSA 9 WTF Ripken I determined it was also a fake. Once again, PSA offered a full refund for the card once they determined it to be a counterfeit.
Here is Trevor’s recollection on how he received the card:
“I bought my WTF PSA 9 for $185.00 Buy It Now off EBay. I bought it on August 13, 2006. I was very excited when I bought it because I hit the By It Now 5 minutes into the auction. I thought I got an amazing deal on a so called authentic PSA 9 Ripken. When I got home later that night I checked completed listings just to see if any PSA 9’s had sold recently and one had sold a few days before I bought mine. It sold for $900.00. I am not sure if it was real or not.”
The good news is that PSA is now fully aware of the counterfeit WTF issues. However, how much damage has been done? After all, we do know that it’s been 6 years since someone found out that BGS would not certify a counterfeit. We also know that as late as the spring of 2007 that PSA certified a counterfeit WTF issue. As of May 1, 2007, the population report stated there were 90 1981 WTF cards of Cal graded, with 23 PSA 9’s and 1 PSA 10. Although it’s a small sample size, we do know that 8.6% of that total PSA 9 population report as of May 1, 2007, was counterfeit. It is important to note that since purchasing the fake, PSA has deleted 1 PSA 9 from the registry. Under cert 03427907, www.psacard.com now lists the grade of what was once a PSA 9 as “Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication“.
Where do we go from here? Trevor Dovey suggested the following: “I would like to see PSA try to track down the rest of the 90 graded WTF copies. I think they should let it be known that there are fake cards in PSA slabs (have an article in magazines and also on online forums). Hopefully they can buy back all the fakes and reconstruct the population report. This way people will know how rare this card actually is.” Bill Haelig also feels that serious steps should be taken by PSA. “If PSA was serious about this, they would offer a public ‘recall’ of any WTF Ripken they graded for another inspection.”
The minor league cards of Cal Ripken, Jr, provide an often unseen glimpse of one of the great players and individuals of our generation. As collectors, it is our responsibility to uphold the integrity of our great hobby, especially on a market with so many knowingly taking advantage of others. The bad news is that this is a reminder of what is bad with our hobby. The good news is that the opportunity is here to do something about it.
Chris Dishman
www.ripkenintheminors.com
0
Comments
<< <i>I smell a "poof!" coming! >>
I don't. PSA has been open about the situation and immediately resolved both issues mentioned in the article. They have also pledged to be in contact about some additional concerns that I mentioned in a letter to Joe. They could've dismissed my claims but they took them seriously from day 1. Just to be sure, this post is in no way, shape or form an attack on PSA. This is intended as a tool to inform Ripken collectors of a new danger. The Ripken minor league market is flooded with counterfeits. Of the 4 main Ripken issues, at least 2 of the 4 have been known to be counterfeit and I have concerns that the number may very well be at 3/4. Even though PSA has the tools to guard from this happening in the future, it's a legit concern that there could be more fakes in a PSA slab and collectors should know that. There are enough collectors afraid to go our in the Ripken minor league market for any new reasons for them to be scared.
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<< <i>Does SGC back their product like PSA does? I doubt it... >>
Well, here is a direct quote from SGC's site. While it doesnt specifically address fraudulent cards, I know SGC and they would absolutely stand behind anything that they graded that was found out later to be a fake.
The SGC Guarantee
SGC guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the original submitter of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the original submitter may resubmit that card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade. THIS RESUBMISSION MUST BE REQUESTED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECEIPT FROM SGC.
If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's option, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein.
Does PSA do that?
BTW since were talking counterfit and Ripken........
1989 Fleer Bill Ripken B/W Test is fake.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does SGC back their product like PSA does? I doubt it... >>
Well, here is a direct quote from SGC's site. While it doesnt specifically address fraudulent cards, I know SGC and they would absolutely stand behind anything that they graded that was found out later to be a fake.
The SGC Guarantee
SGC guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. In the event the original submitter of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the original submitter may resubmit that card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade. THIS RESUBMISSION MUST BE REQUESTED WITHIN 30 DAYS OF RECEIPT FROM SGC.
If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's option, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein.
Does PSA do that? >>
PSA says they do.... I had a different experience however. I do commend them on taking the blame for this one and making it right by the purchases, it was the absolutely right thing to do and I commend them for that. I would have to believe SGC would do the same thing.
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BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
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That is correct.
I am sure that PSA knows there is no reason for
a poof here.
Isolated mistakes like this provide a GREAT opportunity for
PSA to step up and alert collectors - in the widest
practical manner - of the potential problem. The
"capital" in confidence and reputation to be gained
by such an alert FAR outweighs the small financial
outlay likely required.
Consumers trust companies that admit to errors.
(google "tylenol crisis," if you doubt that.)
I hope "my TPG" gets out in front of this, today.
Such action will pay great dividends.
These minor league/college/etc. are no different than star issues...but for some reason they'll grade them.
Either way, I'm willing to bet this thread popped friday afternoon, because it's gonna go poof on monday morning.
lsuconnman@yahoo.com
Makes me wonder if the person or people that made the fakes were a little bit more up on their game if it would have ever been caught by anyone .
I wonder how many people trying to make fake cards just found out a little more information than they knew before , such as the weight information for instance ?
Interesting .
There is always someone out there trying to beat the system .
I would have never thought of someone counterfeiting a sports card .
Pretty soon the cards are going to have special bar codes with each cards getting it's own seperate number .
Seems to me it couldn't be all that hard to make a baseball card, especially if you have access to all the secret information
<< <i>I consider myself a pretty avid collector of Ripken cards and I own NONE of the Minor League cards for that very reason, I was too afraid of spending loads of money on a fake because I don't know what to look for. Thanks to Chris's website, I'm actually excited to start collecting Ripken's Minor League cards now! If anything else, this situation solidifies the future of the graded Ripken Minor League cards, and educates the collectors universe. All good things. >>
Thanks for the kind words. Feel free to let me know if I can ever be of any assistance. It's a fascinating market but unfortunately there has been very little information compiled in one location over the years. It's because of this that people have been able to take advantage of others for so long. Hopefully this information will be shared throughout the collecting community. Unfortunately, people will still have to do their homework but at least the effort is being made to protect them.
And in regards to the thread going "poof", I have a lot more confidence in PSA than that. This thread is in no way an attack on PSA. This thread is an attempt to warn the fellow Ripken collectors on the board that may be considering purchasing this card. It's also a warning that collectors with this card should take a look at their card. I'm confident that PSA is taking the necessary steps to prevent this from happening again and I look forward to assisting in any way possible.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>Chris, Great job. I have seen it on 2 other boards now.
BTW since were talking counterfit and Ripken........
1989 Fleer Bill Ripken B/W Test is fake. >>
Thanks! Keep up the great work on the '89 area as well. I know of a lot of people that have received benefit from your site.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
The silver lining is that PSA is now aware of the problem. Having a counterfeit template on hand should prevent bogus Ripkens from being graded in the future. The question is how many have slipped through the cracks to this point?
I think I'd be wary of buying this card on-line in the future. Plenty of research and an in-person examination seem like the way to go.
<< <i>Chris, great thread.
The silver lining is that PSA is now aware of the problem. Having a counterfeit template on hand should prevent bogus Ripkens from being graded in the future. The question is how many have slipped through the cracks to this point?
I think I'd be wary of buying this card on-line in the future. Plenty of research and an in-person examination seem like the way to go. >>
Thanks.
I totaly agree that it's good that they have a template to follow. The only thing I would question in this process (folks please take this with a huge grain of salt) is the fact that this is information that was made known in 2001. Granted, I'm sure that some people would call me crazy if I suggested that the big three contacted one another in the event that they stumbled on a new counterfeit variation. But then again, is it that far fetched when the ultimate goal for everyone is to protect the integrity of the hobby?
If I had a legit 9 I'd be feeling pretty good about myself considering the news. I'm not sure who owns the 10, but I'd love to see it.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>I smell a "poof!" coming! >>
Southercards, you are such a troll....go somewhere you are wanted, stop your ANTI-PSA posts, its getting very old...
i know people like you from stock message boards....the bottom of the barrel type of person...
<< <i>
<< <i>I smell a "poof!" coming! >>
Southercards, you are such a troll....go somewhere you are wanted, stop your ANTI-PSA posts, its getting very old...
i know people like you from stock message boards....the bottom of the barrel type of person... >>
Oh? please tell me what "anti-PSA" statements I made in this thread
<< <i>I think the bigger question is how PSA let this "get through" and the reality is how many other "non mainstream" card issues have they done the same thing with? In other words, what information did they have at their disposal that told them these counterfeits were real in their opinion? As Chris pointed, Beckett (of all people) pointed this out in 2001. >>
That's a could be reality that bothers me to think about.
On another note, we need much more accountability from groups that profit from the buying and selling of counterfeit memorabilia. It's absurd to me that some online auction groups allow stuff to be sold despite numerous warnings from knowledged collectors.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Real:
Fake:
<< <i>As far as the counterfeit issue goes, it's fairly easy to tell some Star counterfeits that are regularly being sold on ebay by bigboydsportscards and others. >>
Here's the part that I don't get. If it's so understood that the guy is selling fakes then how and/or why has he been allowed to get by with it for so long?
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
On another note, now I'm having troubles with my 1980 WBTV cards. I sent the remaining ungraded 26 cards of the 28 card set in the March special and they came back slabbed with one of the cards slabbed with wrong information. Because of this, I can't add it to my set registry until I go and get the card, scan the front and back, and forward the images.
There's still a lot of confusion on the cards associated with Cal's minor league days and I'd certainly love the opportunity to share the knowledge learned from others with the folks at PSA. Hopefully I'll get that chance.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>
There's still a lot of confusion on the cards associated with Cal's minor league days and I'd certainly love the opportunity to share the knowledge learned from others with the folks at PSA. Hopefully I'll get that chance. >>
If they do work with you, LMK as I can assist with Bill as well. They dont show pop reports for the white scribble but grade them and label them as white out. Someone thinking its a whiteout paying 3-4X too much. Sad.