Ripped Off by Charter Oak Coins * UPDATE REFUND RECEIVED *

ProofModerns · May 17, 2007 12:30AM

A couple of months ago, I purchased a coin that was advertised as a 1962 PR68 RD DCAM (Deep Cameo) Proof Lincoln Cent on Ebay. I should have known, they did not show the PCGS holder, just the coin. When it arrived, it was only a PR68 RD CAM (regular cameo). I contacted the guy and he said send it back and he would send a refund. I sent the coin back, and didn't hear from him for a while. I emailed him and asked him if he got the coin. He said yes but that he had been out of town. I have been asking him about a refund since my email and regular mail, and I have come to the conclusion that he is NOT going to refund the money. He has since closed his Ebay account, although he had no other negative feedback.

The guy owns and runs an auction site: http://www.charteroakcoin.wizaweb.com/page/page/960288.htm

DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS SHADY COMPANY!

Does anyone live near Southington, CT that can maybe pay a visit to this clown for me?

Scavenger · May 17, 2007 12:42AM

If you paid with PayPal and used delivery confirmation when you returned it, you might be able to get your money back through PayPal. If not, write it off as a lesson learned.

tradedollarnut · May 17, 2007 12:43AM

You should have used the tried and true Keets method of determining whether a company is a 'bottom feeder' or not. Assess his personality on a chatroom first and ignore any past satisfied customers.

kranky · May 17, 2007 12:45AM

He's got an internet-only auction running right now on his site. He's obviously not out of the business.

GiggidyGiggidyGoo · May 17, 2007 12:49AM

Look closely at the internet only auction. Look at his coins for sale...there isnt a bleedin' item with a bid, nor are there any coins for sale, except from other sites linked to his site.

ScarsdaleCoin · May 17, 2007 12:52AM

depends on how much you paid for this gem.....

johnnymondo411 · May 17, 2007 12:58AM

I own a collection agency. How much does he owe you? Maybe I can help.

Shamika · May 17, 2007 1:03AM

Charter Oak Coin

I drive through Southington on occasion. Unfortunately, this guy only shows a P.O. box as an address. This alone is a red flag.

skeeterhawk · May 17, 2007 1:20AM

<< Charter Oak Coin

I drive through Southington on occasion. Unfortunately, this guy only shows a P.O. box as an address. This alone is a red flag. >>

Why does the fact that he only lists a P.O. Box as an address throw up a red flag?????????

I run my company from my home and I only list a P.O. Box in my ads and on my letterhead....................

Scavenger · May 17, 2007 1:28AM

skeeterhawk, Having a P.O. Box tells people that if there is a problem with the transaction, there is no address that they associate with the business. In theory, you can sell your coins, wait for the checks to arrive and never send the coins. From the buyers standpoint, there is nothing that you can do. If you have a street address it is an assurance that you will be there tomorrow.

Shamika · May 17, 2007 1:33AM

Also, he lists no contact name or phone number. Other than a P.O.box and fairly anonymous email address, who knows who this guy is.

seanq · May 17, 2007 1:46AM

<< Also, he lists no contact name or phone number. Other than a P.O.box and fairly anonymous email address, who knows who this guy is. >>

Sean Reynolds

percyb · May 17, 2007 1:49AM

<< Also, he lists no contact name or phone number. Other than a P.O.box and fairly anonymous email address, who knows who this guy is. >>

Wouldn't Ebay have the details about him and be able to provide them? You know, numbers, addresses and the like?

johnnymondo411 · May 17, 2007 1:49AM

Here is his phone number:

Phone: ***-***-**** (removed at the advice of a member)

I just called and it is him. If you want me to collect the money for you just send me a PM and I will get you the forms.

Connecticoin · May 17, 2007 1:51AM

Auction Link?

ProofModerns · May 17, 2007 2:00AM

Thanks for the support guys. I didn't think I had it any more but here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320082715326

He did not accept Paypal. I should have seen the red flags... the PO Box, the new user status, no Paypal, not showing the holder, etc. But I saw that he ran that auction (and has been running it for some time).

I actually think the listing was an error. I've done it before where I've mistaken a 19xx RD CAM coin for being a DCAM coin. But the least he could do is send me the refund.

skeeterhawk · May 17, 2007 2:03AM

<< skeeterhawk, Having a P.O. Box tells people that if there is a problem with the transaction, there is no address that they associate with the business. In theory, you can sell your coins, wait for the checks to arrive and never send the coins. From the buyers standpoint, there is nothing that you can do. If you have a street address it is an assurance that you will be there tomorrow. >>

I don't think a street address is an absolute that the person will be there tomorrow.... also keep in mind that unless you physically go to that address you can not be certain that it truly exists. Many of the wholesale dealers in this business use a P.O. Box as their address and have done so for many years.

IMHO you can't automatically expect a problem from a coin company because they only list a P.O. Box.....it has not been a concern/problem in my dealings with my clients.......but I am honest and take care of my business and my clients......

But IF a person decides that he is going to rip people off then he WILL do so regardless of whether he is a P.O. Box or a physical street address.............there are dealers out there now that have stolen from clients and other dealers in the past 3 years who have physical shops, run ads in the publications and have web sites that haven't missed a wink of sleep or experienced any major set backs as a result of their activity........IMHO

Jcarney · May 17, 2007 2:05AM

<< In theory, you can sell your coins, wait for the checks to arrive and never send the coins. >>

In theory, that'll get you a visit from a postal inspector and possibly a large, less than friendly, overly amorous roommate in prison.

Many legitimate businesses use PO boxes with no problems.

Russ · May 17, 2007 2:07AM

http://www.charteroakcoin.wizaweb.com/page/page/960288.htm

He doesn't even have a real web site.

Russ, NCNE

Connecticoin · May 17, 2007 2:35AM

Here's an old thread on the guy:

Link

Name is Fred Serafino. I think he has had several Ebay accounts that got NARU'd. Roadrunner might know if he shows up at any of the local coins shows.

seanq · May 17, 2007 2:37AM

<< Here's an old thread on the guy:

Link

Name is Fred Serafino. I think he has had several Ebay accounts that got NARU'd. Roadrunner might know if he shows up at any of the local coins shows. >>

That's the same name I PM'ed the OP. I've seen him at the WESPNEX show as recently as last October. He's still up to his old tricks.

Sean Reynolds

BlindedByEgo · May 17, 2007 2:48AM

Lots of old threads less than positive about this Fed Serafino guy.

Scavenger · May 17, 2007 3:39AM

Jcarney, Yes many legitimate businesses use P.O. boxes with no problem. But if the business is not legitimate, then it becomes a problem. All that is involved in opening a P.O. box is a picture identification. If you dont think a well groomed con man doesnt have a doctored one then wake up. This is why people think twice before shipping to a P.O. box.

Shamika · May 17, 2007 3:54AM

<< IMHO you can't automatically expect a problem from a coin company because they only list a P.O. Box.. >>

No one is saying you should EXPECT a problem, all I'm saying is it's a red flag. Just like buying coins from China or buying items from eBay members with zero feedback.

There are legitimate coin dealers in China (I'm sure) and everyone has to start with zero feedback on eBay. But having only a P.O.Box as a shipping address does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Caution should always be used in matters of money.

goose3 · May 17, 2007 4:45AM

let the member on here collect it for you.

maybe he incorporates the use of some hired muscle to do so.

that'd be cool.

if you're not interested in doing that, call the ANA and see if he is a member there.

File a complaint with them.

tincup · May 17, 2007 8:12AM

Consider your money gone.

I have had the same situation happen with this guy. Nuff said.

My suggestion... I would not hesitate to make use of the fellow poster who offered his collection services.

roadrunner · May 17, 2007 8:36AM

I've seen Fred at coin shows since the early 1980's when he ran one in Bristol, CT. Unfortunately he's been bottom feeding with his own auctions the past several years. He is usually always at the major shows, Boston (Bay State), Hartford, CT and White Plains/Westchester. He's not hard to find by any means, at least not in person at a show. The last time I "bought" something from him was in 1998 or 1999 when I got a raw AT Albany out of one of his auctions. Most recently he ran a dealer only show on a Wed in March in Southington, CT. Most of the familiar-faced dealers in the Northeast know him very well.

I see no reason he should not pay up, esp if you'd first like to contact Conn. Dept of Consumer Protection, Southington Police, or Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal. I would not consider your money gone unless you want it to be so. I'm sure I could dredge up his work/home address if needed.

roadrunner

ProofModerns · May 17, 2007 5:56PM

Thanks for the help guys. I was contacted by Charter Oak today and was told that he thought he had mailed it but it got buried on his desk and never made it to the post office. He is supposedly sending a refund.

I will update the thread again if/when I get it.

seanq · May 17, 2007 11:55PM

<< Thanks for the help guys. I was contacted by Charter Oak today and was told that he thought he had mailed it but it got buried on his desk and never made it to the post office. He is supposedly sending a refund.

I will update the thread again if/when I get it. >>

Well, I guess we know he reads these boards now. That or he got a couple of phone calls.

Sean Reynolds

johnnymondo411 · May 18, 2007 12:02AM

your welcome...

dthigpen · May 18, 2007 12:05AM

<< You should have used the tried and true Keets method of determining whether a company is a 'bottom feeder' or not. Assess his personality on a chatroom first and ignore any past satisfied customers.

>>

There's some validity in that. Many people have conviction enough to not want to deal with dealers who don't conduct themselves in a professional manner in a public arena, whether or not they have a mile long list of happy customers. (I'm not one of those people, though)

numisma · May 18, 2007 12:07AM

Someone should report him to Coin World (tincup, proofmoderns). He will be banned from advertising there.

StrikeOutXXX · May 18, 2007 12:08AM

<< your welcome... >>

LOL - you're going to be a very popular guy around here, I think we average about 3 a week who could use your services

Glad it looks like things will work out for the OP after all.

Shamika · May 18, 2007 1:37AM

<< I was contacted by Charter Oak today and was told that he thought he had mailed it but it got buried on his desk and never made it to the post office. He is supposedly sending a refund. >>

Typical story.

<< your welcome... >>

I think johnnymondo411 deserves an "Attaboy" and perhaps a small finders fee!

ProofModerns · May 21, 2007 2:34PM

***Update***

I received the refund today. All is good. Thanks again to those who helped.

storm888 · May 21, 2007 2:47PM

Maybe a modified thread title would be in order.

The "ripped off" part turned out not to be accurate.

DeusExMachina · May 21, 2007 3:07PM

<< your welcome... >>

Wow, that was quick. Johnny Mondo does not mess around.

Ripped Off by Charter Oak Coins * UPDATE REFUND RECEIVED *

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Ripped Off by Charter Oak Coins *** UPDATE REFUND RECEIVED ***

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Ripped Off by Charter Oak Coins * UPDATE REFUND RECEIVED *