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Ebay's Deal or No Deal (NTC)
MidAtlanticCoins
Posts: 182
A client of ours decided to play the "Oh look at the great deal I can get deal" recently on Ebay.
The seller lists a NTC MS-65 slabbed 1893-O Morgan Dollar with the $200,000 value represented....
Of course, since there NO rules about which grading companies can be sold on Ebay, this is a routine thing.
The pics are pretty lousy of course, but not as bad as they could have been.
EBAY PIC:
He goes ahead and takes the "Oh what a great deal" and buys the coin for around $1900.00
He gets the coin recently and notices that the color is a bit off, and the coin exhibits some wear. Not the sign of a Gem Uncirculated coin.
So this person brings it to the shop, to get our opinion.
OUR PIC:
At least the coin is authentic...That is about the best part of this transaction.
The coin has been dipped improperly and retoned improperly to cover up a worse cleaning. Hairlines and hard run lines are pretty evident with naked eye. Under magnification, the coin looks a lot worse. Tape residue is still evident, and the first cleaning was pretty hard.
The coin would grade AU details, and net grade in the XF-40 range.
The only deal was for the seller....They unloaded a truly bad coin for good money all the while hyping the PCGS price value of a MS-65 coin.
It was our suggestion that this client send this coin back, eat the postage and handling, and learn the lesson of buying coins from proper people and proper grading services.
While there are on rare occasions (and only sight seen) that people can buy coins in third world holders, buying them even with good pics should be avoided at all costs.
The seller lists a NTC MS-65 slabbed 1893-O Morgan Dollar with the $200,000 value represented....
Of course, since there NO rules about which grading companies can be sold on Ebay, this is a routine thing.
The pics are pretty lousy of course, but not as bad as they could have been.
EBAY PIC:
He goes ahead and takes the "Oh what a great deal" and buys the coin for around $1900.00
He gets the coin recently and notices that the color is a bit off, and the coin exhibits some wear. Not the sign of a Gem Uncirculated coin.
So this person brings it to the shop, to get our opinion.
OUR PIC:
At least the coin is authentic...That is about the best part of this transaction.
The coin has been dipped improperly and retoned improperly to cover up a worse cleaning. Hairlines and hard run lines are pretty evident with naked eye. Under magnification, the coin looks a lot worse. Tape residue is still evident, and the first cleaning was pretty hard.
The coin would grade AU details, and net grade in the XF-40 range.
The only deal was for the seller....They unloaded a truly bad coin for good money all the while hyping the PCGS price value of a MS-65 coin.
It was our suggestion that this client send this coin back, eat the postage and handling, and learn the lesson of buying coins from proper people and proper grading services.
While there are on rare occasions (and only sight seen) that people can buy coins in third world holders, buying them even with good pics should be avoided at all costs.
0
Comments
At $1900 the coin would have to grade (at PCGS/NGC) MS62-63 to make this a 'deal'.
Personally I have liked the coins I have in NTC holders, but I have only traded for the few I have, all Lincolns.
But because they have been aquired via trades, & were not valued much, I look at them for what they are to me, nice coins.
I hope your customer came to you right away, not waiting a week to show you & forfeiting his ability to return the coin.
Update-Not that it really makes your point less valid, but the seller insinuates the coins is worth $200,000 & your customer won it for $1009.99.
Prices are based on current issues of "Coin World Magazine."........Return policy not specified.
Read item description for any reference to return policy.
Of course no return policy listed in the desription (unless I missed it).
Seller with 0 feedback!
Only saving grace (I think) is that it was paid with Paypal, although it was not misrepresented.
And I hope thebigboss43 is not a member here!
eBay Auction
I have seen a number of NTC coins that were cleaned... on the other hand I have also seen coins slabbed by PCGS and NGC that are cleaned. Bottom line... you better see them in hand and be confident in your own grading skills if you're going to buy an NTC coin. As with everything... buyer beware.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
<< <i>I'd never assume an NTC coin was better than a cleaned AU. If I could get an NTC coin slabbed 'MS-65' for less than cleaned AU money, I might bite. But that's about it, and they are rarely discounted THAT much. >>
I'm gonna eat a bit of humble pie here, and admit that I recently got 'ouched' by a NTC slabbed coin, too: 1882-CC MS65
I cracked it out and sent it in to PCGS as part of my 8 freebies voucher and they posted the grade as 'Altered Surface'!
Now I know some TPGs are better than others, but I never thought there could be this drastic a difference from one to the other. I didn't think it would come back from PCGS as MS-65, but I thought it would probably go at least 63 or 64.
But this? (sigh)
Seemed like good pics and an accurate description, and there was plenty of competition for this one. And I'm not faulting the seller one bit, great reputation and professional service. And the coin looked absolutely gorgeous in hand, too!
Your thoughts, anyone?
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
I wish they would be more specific than that.
PCGS' definition:
94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumped over (using a pasty substance to alter the appearance).
Whizzed & harsh cleaning shuld be easy to see, so my guess would be 'thumbed over', but it's anybody's guess.
Personally, for the cost of grading & having the coin BB'ed, the least we should get is a better explaination why the coin was determined to have 'altered surfaces'.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
But I haven't found any of them yet.
My experience with buying Mint State NTC Morgans (ones I think really are Mint State) and sending them to PCGS is they usually drop 3 points.
But if you pay accordingly that's OK.
Thinking you're getting a $200,000 coin for $1,000 -- on eBay no less -- is ridiculous beyond measure.
It shows that even the 3rd tier TPG's can make mistakes (ie graded a coin properly)
roadrunner
I have purchased one ntc coin- a morgan from a board member in which I wasn't concerned about the technical grade, just the color. I count myself lucky that I like the coin....
JJ