<< <i>I just need to vent. I have been buying some things on ebay lately. I have to admit it has been Ngc graded coins. 3 of the four items I would not have bought if I would have seen them in hand. I won them at a good price, but they will not sell for top dollar. For example, Just won a 1925 ngc rb lincoln penny ms-66. In addition to the ms-66 being questionble due to a scratch on lincolns face, there is ovbious green pvc damage on the coin above liberty. Of course the seller has not left me feedback yet(so he can neg me if i neg him). If i return it, i take the $10 hit in shipping. Plus, one time when i returned a coin with a bad milk spot that the seller did not disclose, he never sent another coin or my money back! So now i am gun shy about sending a coin back. Flea-bay and Ngc sucks big time!Thanks for the ear, i just wanted to vent. >>
Just another reason to find a dealer you trust. Also, this proves that you get what you pay for when bargain hunting. There are two classes of coins on the market right now. Problem coins and Non-Problem coins.
Problem coins include overgraded coins but the moment they are put into a holder much higher than the actual grade, nobody will touch them so they become problem coins. While they might be nice for an MS63, they certainly aren't gems and since the seller will expect gem money (because of the grade on the holder) and would never sell the coin for true MS63 money, it'll either get overpaid for, rot in inventory, or get wholesaled to a price buyer who will then start the crap cycle over again looking for the next bargain hunter.
Non-Problem coins are traded at much higher levels than problem coins. Accurately graded coins will typciall sell for above listed price levels because the price guides need to account for the trading levels of the Problem coins out there taking the listed values of non-problem coins down with them. Your best bet is to check auction records in conjunction to listed price guides to get a more accurate feel of the actual price of a non-problem coin. Although, that means more work for the collector who usually already has a confirmation bias for the listed prices because they are trying to get the coin cheaper (duh) and try to spin it at every angle to support the listed prices. This is an aggrivating but neccessary evil and the buyers usually change their thoughts after being burned on bargain coins a few times. It's baptism by fire in today's market and until the grading services do a better job at cleaning up the crap they've put into the market, PCGS is doing better at this than NGC only because PCGS is more proactive and grading incredibly tight right now (that's another issue I'll talk about later), this dichotomy will persist. >>
You make it sound like the TGS's purposely overgraded coins! On the contrary, I really don't want to see "the grading services doing a better job at cleaning up the crap they have on the market". This is the very reason they have tightened up! The last thing we need is the coin hobby getting too dependent on what a TGS grades a coin. (That was mistake #1 alot of folks made to begin with) We only need authenticating of coins, let the coin collectors do the rest.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>Why would anyone believe that any seller in his right mind would expose his high quality coins to an ebay no reserve auction where they will be treated the same as crap? Why would they gamble on two bidders actually trying to buy the coin for somewhere near market price? Why would they enjoy seeing their top quality coin languishing for 9 days and 23 hours at a top bid of 10% of market waiting and hoping that two snipers will at the last minute bid a price close to their cost? Why after suffering loss after loss would they keep on buying premium quality coins to sell in ebay no reserve auctions? The answer is too obvious... they won't. >>
This has never made any sense to me when selling. It's almost like ebay, the major auction houses and the TGS all have a hidden agenda. And that's to get as big of a chunk (percent) of your wallet (profit) as possible. Will there ever be a place (website) where collectors can buy quality coins without having to go through some middleman?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Just an update, I did finally decide and the seller is ok with my returning the coin. He said he knew nothing of the pvc and had in fact paid $85 for it at a dealer show. He sounds like a nice fellow and i assume he will credit my account when he gets the coin. The green pvc was visible to my daughter without any prompting from me. I had only noticed it under a loupe. (although i could see something was wrong with my naked eye.) I will be more cautious in buying on ebay in the future. I dont like having to return coins..... just my preference....
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I just need to vent. I have been buying some things on ebay lately. I have to admit it has been Ngc graded coins. 3 of the four items I would not have bought if I would have seen them in hand. I won them at a good price, but they will not sell for top dollar. For example, Just won a 1925 ngc rb lincoln penny ms-66. In addition to the ms-66 being questionble due to a scratch on lincolns face, there is ovbious green pvc damage on the coin above liberty. Of course the seller has not left me feedback yet(so he can neg me if i neg him). If i return it, i take the $10 hit in shipping. Plus, one time when i returned a coin with a bad milk spot that the seller did not disclose, he never sent another coin or my money back! So now i am gun shy about sending a coin back. Flea-bay and Ngc sucks big time!Thanks for the ear, i just wanted to vent. >>
Just another reason to find a dealer you trust. Also, this proves that you get what you pay for when bargain hunting. There are two classes of coins on the market right now. Problem coins and Non-Problem coins.
Problem coins include overgraded coins but the moment they are put into a holder much higher than the actual grade, nobody will touch them so they become problem coins. While they might be nice for an MS63, they certainly aren't gems and since the seller will expect gem money (because of the grade on the holder) and would never sell the coin for true MS63 money, it'll either get overpaid for, rot in inventory, or get wholesaled to a price buyer who will then start the crap cycle over again looking for the next bargain hunter.
Non-Problem coins are traded at much higher levels than problem coins. Accurately graded coins will typciall sell for above listed price levels because the price guides need to account for the trading levels of the Problem coins out there taking the listed values of non-problem coins down with them. Your best bet is to check auction records in conjunction to listed price guides to get a more accurate feel of the actual price of a non-problem coin. Although, that means more work for the collector who usually already has a confirmation bias for the listed prices because they are trying to get the coin cheaper (duh) and try to spin it at every angle to support the listed prices. This is an aggrivating but neccessary evil and the buyers usually change their thoughts after being burned on bargain coins a few times. It's baptism by fire in today's market and until the grading services do a better job at cleaning up the crap they've put into the market, PCGS is doing better at this than NGC only because PCGS is more proactive and grading incredibly tight right now (that's another issue I'll talk about later), this dichotomy will persist. >>
You make it sound like the TGS's purposely overgraded coins! On the contrary, I really don't want to see "the grading services doing a better job at cleaning up the crap they have on the market". This is the very reason they have tightened up! The last thing we need is the coin hobby getting too dependent on what a TGS grades a coin. (That was mistake #1 alot of folks made to begin with) We only need authenticating of coins, let the coin collectors do the rest.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Why would anyone believe that any seller in his right mind would expose his high quality coins to an ebay no reserve auction where they will be treated the same as crap?
Why would they gamble on two bidders actually trying to buy the coin for somewhere near market price?
Why would they enjoy seeing their top quality coin languishing for 9 days and 23 hours at a top bid of 10% of market waiting and hoping that two snipers will at the last minute bid a price close to their cost?
Why after suffering loss after loss would they keep on buying premium quality coins to sell in ebay no reserve auctions?
The answer is too obvious... they won't. >>
This has never made any sense to me when selling. It's almost like ebay, the major auction houses and the TGS all have a hidden agenda. And that's to get as big of a chunk (percent) of your wallet (profit) as possible. Will there ever be a place (website) where collectors can buy quality coins without having to go through some middleman?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com