Getting sick of the crap on Ebay!
taxbuster1040
Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
I just need to vent. I have been buying some things on ebay lately. I have to admit it has been Ngc graded coins. 3 of the four items I would not have bought if I would have seen them in hand. I won them at a good price, but they will not sell for top dollar. For example, Just won a 1925 ngc rb lincoln penny ms-66. In addition to the ms-66 being questionble due to a scratch on lincolns face, there is ovbious green pvc damage on the coin above liberty. Of course the seller has not left me feedback yet(so he can neg me if i neg him). If i return it, i take the $10 hit in shipping. Plus, one time when i returned a coin with a bad milk spot that the seller did not disclose, he never sent another coin or my money back! So now i am gun shy about sending a coin back. Flea-bay and Ngc sucks big time!Thanks for the ear, i just wanted to vent.
0
Comments
<< <i>So you are saying all problem coins are in NGC holders? >>
The good ones get cracked out and sent to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>So you are saying all problem coins are in NGC holders? >>
The good ones get cracked out and sent to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE >>
So all those NGC Kennedy's you're selling are crap?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So you are saying all problem coins are in NGC holders? >>
The good ones get cracked out and sent to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE >>
So all those NGC Kennedy's you're selling are crap?
...below the belt, and the ref takes a point away.
I'm a bit optimistic,
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>Put me in a room fuul of crap and I will dig till I find the Pony !!
I'm a bit optimistic,
<< <i><< So you are saying all problem coins are in NGC holders? >>
The good ones get cracked out and sent to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE >>
So all those NGC Kennedy's you're selling are crap? >>
My hammer is broken.
Russ, NCNE
roadrunner
Are you doing due diligence in bidding from sellers without obvious issues? Bad pics, bad return policies, etc?
Are you buying for your collection or to resell? You state you got them at "a good price" but they will "not sell for top dollar". Sounds like you are trying to buy low and flip them. Also sounds like, if they sold low, that other people may have seen something you didn't which is why the price wasn't higher.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>So you are saying all problem coins are in NGC holders? >>
The good ones get cracked out and sent to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE >>
Now there is Gospel, If ya ever heard it.............
TorinoCobra71
Quit crying and learn how to play the Game. Why should you neg the seller for an NGC graded coin?
Did he purposely attempt to deceive you? If so then burn his ace. I he didn't then get on with it.
Did you take the time to zoom in on the pix? Did you read the terms of his auction?
Did you take into account "Why" a coin may be shot the way it is?
When you find the right people to deal with, stick with them.
It's just the way it goes. Some you win, some you lose. If he has a return privilege send the coin back.
Take your losses and lumps like the rest of us or fix the coin, re-submit it OR send it back to NGC.
Not ALL eBay sellers sell BS and not ALL NGC products are problematic, At least mine aren't.
As far as that goes, neither is my raw material because if there is an issue I state so in the description.
I must agree on ONE topic. A lot of sellers dump undesirable, problematic crap on eBay. I've seen it & it
makes me downright angry but this seller doesn't. we DO NOT live in a perfect World!
Talking about wanting to VENT, well let me say this!
I have a lot of PQ raw coins that make no sense having graded because by the time all expenses would
be factored in, I'd be so far down in the hole that I couldn't see light so it only stands to reason that I
sell them RAW. It's better to make $10 profit on a coin than to operate in RED figures.
ALL COINS come with a Money Back Guarantee BTW, and I take close ups to the best of my ability that certainly
do not flatter the coins as anything shot using Macro from 3 inches away is going to make the least tick or nick
look like some Major Dooh- Dooh!
Ahhhh, I feel better now! The meds are kicking in!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Its a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.
I only bid on coins that have photos that are good enough for me to "See what I'm buying."
This is a case that sounds like you were buying the holder....
AL
the venting is over?
Camelot
Not really, but know'n the med's have kicked in sure does.
Anyone else have seen the ebay trend ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Wow, tough crowd.... Well allright, cost of doing business...... I do flip some coins, but feel like I would like to hold on to the nicer coins. Maybe I had hopes of building a Lincoln collection. But not with pvc... I think that a seller has an obligation to DISCLOSE something like green pvc.. he knows its there. I have tried to be honest in all my listings. My 3 negs, were all retaliatory. I am trying to communicate with this seller to see what we can do. And by the way, I have sold Ikes graded by ngc, not kennedys. The kennedys i sell raw, usually rolls. Guess I just wish things were different. When i sell I do truly try disclose those things that i notice about a coin... scratch, cleaning, etc. Thats why i expect the same in return( but know I am just too much of an idealist)..... I dont want the buyer to give me a neg for lying by omission. >>
If the seller is a casual seller of coins, he/she may not know PVC or being paying attention if it isn't a high priced item.
Here is the link to the item that started it all for this thread....
Let's see what other's feel about the single pic, the seller, and the price...
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Wow, tough crowd.... Well allright, cost of doing business...... I do flip some coins, but feel like I would like to hold on to the nicer coins. Maybe I had hopes of building a Lincoln collection. But not with pvc... I think that a seller has an obligation to DISCLOSE something like green pvc.. he knows its there. I have tried to be honest in all my listings. My 3 negs, were all retaliatory. I am trying to communicate with this seller to see what we can do. And by the way, I have sold Ikes graded by ngc, not kennedys. The kennedys i sell raw, usually rolls. Guess I just wish things were different. When i sell I do truly try disclose those things that i notice about a coin... scratch, cleaning, etc. Thats why i expect the same in return( but know I am just too much of an idealist)..... I dont want the buyer to give me a neg for lying by omission. >>
I think you are stretching to say "....maybe I had hopes of building a lincoln collection". To me, either you are or you aren't. Nothing wrong with buying to flip, as you mention, but when you do that, you better really know what you are doing, and who it is with, imho.
You state "I am trying to communicate with this seller to see what we can do". Why not just return the coin? Seller states a 7-day return policy. To me, that is what should be done. If you bought it for a collection, and you seem pretty vehement about the PVC right now, return it and get your funds back.
If you bought it to flip and just want a better price due to the PVC, then I can see that being a negotation between you and the seller.
Either way it works out, I do agree it sucks when things are noticed/disclosed but if there is a return policy, use it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Why would they gamble on two bidders actually trying to buy the coin for somewhere near market price?
Why would they enjoy seeing their top quality coin languishing for 9 days and 23 hours at a top bid of 10% of market waiting and hoping that two snipers will at the last minute bid a price close to their cost?
Why after suffering loss after loss would they keep on buying premium quality coins to sell in ebay no reserve auctions?
The answer is too obvious... they won't.
I along with most experienced dealers only sell either at a fixed price listing or a reserve auction.
This keeps all the bargain hunters away more effectively than wolfbane or tana leaves. Even garlic!
When I do eventually load some coins onto ebay in a no reserve format, You can be assured they will be coins I'm trying to unload.
Even though I advertise them accurately as not up to my usual standards and probably attractive only to bargain hunters and even though I offer a full return it seems that the bargain hunters are so pleased with the price they "ripped" it for they rarely return them.
In short any coin you think you ripped for a low price will invariably be average to below average.
It really is true that you will get what you pay for. For a crappy price why groan when you get a crappy coin?
There are many ebay sellers as well as myself who offer premium coins at premium prices and enough experienced buyers who will have nothing less than the best to keep the best coins flowing to the most knowledgable collectors.
The rest wind up on ebay no reserve auctions. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
$65 for a Pop10 coin with 2 grading higher and all this?
Uh, taxbuster. you're dealing with Copper that is over 80 years old, certified by a competent grading service here!
I just looked at the listing and the seller has an outstanding track record and even provided super-sized pix AND a 7 day return option. What's the deal? Trying some feedback extortionary tactics here, trying to negotiate with and swing some sort of deal with him ... or else? Man, that is so uncool.
Dude, put the coin in an envelope and return it and I'll bet that if you ask real nice he'll probably give you a 100% refund. The only thing you would be out is the postage to send it back. Boy, that's a tough decision.
Is the PVC THAT noticeable that you honestly feel he withheld info from you or is it some tiny portion somewhere that you just happened to notice?
Coins develop problems in slabs over the course of time if left in wrong environmental conditions. In no way do I see this seller being at fault unless this is an old picture and this problem was extremely obvious. There should be no haggling or threats of a negative. If you have a problem with the coin return it to the seller but if you ripped it, you might be better off sending it to NGC.
By the way, Good Luck!
Some are WAAAAYY to picky with thier coins, overboard, rediculous
I've had guys return because they absolutely dont agree with certain (TOP 2) TPG's grading. Not one full grade above or below, but 2 or MORE!
<< <i>I just need to vent. I have been buying some things on ebay lately. I have to admit it has been Ngc graded coins. 3 of the four items I would not have bought if I would have seen them in hand. I won them at a good price, but they will not sell for top dollar. For example, Just won a 1925 ngc rb lincoln penny ms-66. In addition to the ms-66 being questionble due to a scratch on lincolns face, there is ovbious green pvc damage on the coin above liberty. Of course the seller has not left me feedback yet(so he can neg me if i neg him). If i return it, i take the $10 hit in shipping. Plus, one time when i returned a coin with a bad milk spot that the seller did not disclose, he never sent another coin or my money back! So now i am gun shy about sending a coin back. Flea-bay and Ngc sucks big time!Thanks for the ear, i just wanted to vent. >>
Just another reason to find a dealer you trust. Also, this proves that you get what you pay for when bargain hunting. There are two classes of coins on the market right now. Problem coins and Non-Problem coins.
Problem coins include overgraded coins but the moment they are put into a holder much higher than the actual grade, nobody will touch them so they become problem coins. While they might be nice for an MS63, they certainly aren't gems and since the seller will expect gem money (because of the grade on the holder) and would never sell the coin for true MS63 money, it'll either get overpaid for, rot in inventory, or get wholesaled to a price buyer who will then start the crap cycle over again looking for the next bargain hunter.
Non-Problem coins are traded at much higher levels than problem coins. Accurately graded coins will typciall sell for above listed price levels because the price guides need to account for the trading levels of the Problem coins out there taking the listed values of non-problem coins down with them. Your best bet is to check auction records in conjunction to listed price guides to get a more accurate feel of the actual price of a non-problem coin. Although, that means more work for the collector who usually already has a confirmation bias for the listed prices because they are trying to get the coin cheaper (duh) and try to spin it at every angle to support the listed prices. This is an aggrivating but neccessary evil and the buyers usually change their thoughts after being burned on bargain coins a few times. It's baptism by fire in today's market and until the grading services do a better job at cleaning up the crap they've put into the market, PCGS is doing better at this than NGC only because PCGS is more proactive and grading incredibly tight right now (that's another issue I'll talk about later), this dichotomy will persist.
<< <i>In a word .... Bull$#!+
Quit crying and learn how to play the Game. Why should you neg the seller for an NGC graded coin?
Did he purposely attempt to deceive you? If so then burn his ace. I he didn't then get on with it.
Did you take the time to zoom in on the pix? Did you read the terms of his auction?
Did you take into account "Why" a coin may be shot the way it is?
When you find the right people to deal with, stick with them.
It's just the way it goes. Some you win, some you lose. If he has a return privilege send the coin back.
Take your losses and lumps like the rest of us or fix the coin, re-submit it OR send it back to NGC.
Not ALL eBay sellers sell BS and not ALL NGC products are problematic, At least mine aren't.
As far as that goes, neither is my raw material because if there is an issue I state so in the description.
I must agree on ONE topic. A lot of sellers dump undesirable, problematic crap on eBay. I've seen it & it
makes me downright angry but this seller doesn't. we DO NOT live in a perfect World!
Talking about wanting to VENT, well let me say this!
I have a lot of PQ raw coins that make no sense having graded because by the time all expenses would
be factored in, I'd be so far down in the hole that I couldn't see light so it only stands to reason that I
sell them RAW. It's better to make $10 profit on a coin than to operate in RED figures.
ALL COINS come with a Money Back Guarantee BTW, and I take close ups to the best of my ability that certainly
do not flatter the coins as anything shot using Macro from 3 inches away is going to make the least tick or nick
look like some Major Dooh- Dooh!
Ahhhh, I feel better now! The meds are kicking in!
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Fwiw this has been the situation since as far back as I can remember.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>I just need to vent. I have been buying some things on ebay lately. I have to admit it has been Ngc graded coins. 3 of the four items I would not have bought if I would have seen them in hand. I won them at a good price, but they will not sell for top dollar. For example, Just won a 1925 ngc rb lincoln penny ms-66. In addition to the ms-66 being questionble due to a scratch on lincolns face, there is ovbious green pvc damage on the coin above liberty. Of course the seller has not left me feedback yet(so he can neg me if i neg him). If i return it, i take the $10 hit in shipping. Plus, one time when i returned a coin with a bad milk spot that the seller did not disclose, he never sent another coin or my money back! So now i am gun shy about sending a coin back. Flea-bay and Ngc sucks big time!Thanks for the ear, i just wanted to vent. >>
Just another reason to find a dealer you trust. Also, this proves that you get what you pay for when bargain hunting. There are two classes of coins on the market right now. Problem coins and Non-Problem coins.
Problem coins include overgraded coins but the moment they are put into a holder much higher than the actual grade, nobody will touch them so they become problem coins. While they might be nice for an MS63, they certainly aren't gems and since the seller will expect gem money (because of the grade on the holder) and would never sell the coin for true MS63 money, it'll either get overpaid for, rot in inventory, or get wholesaled to a price buyer who will then start the crap cycle over again looking for the next bargain hunter.
Non-Problem coins are traded at much higher levels than problem coins. Accurately graded coins will typciall sell for above listed price levels because the price guides need to account for the trading levels of the Problem coins out there taking the listed values of non-problem coins down with them. Your best bet is to check auction records in conjunction to listed price guides to get a more accurate feel of the actual price of a non-problem coin. Although, that means more work for the collector who usually already has a confirmation bias for the listed prices because they are trying to get the coin cheaper (duh) and try to spin it at every angle to support the listed prices. This is an aggrivating but neccessary evil and the buyers usually change their thoughts after being burned on bargain coins a few times. It's baptism by fire in today's market and until the grading services do a better job at cleaning up the crap they've put into the market, PCGS is doing better at this than NGC only because PCGS is more proactive and grading incredibly tight right now (that's another issue I'll talk about later), this dichotomy will persist. >>
Amen to all that Brandon has explained. Time and time again we have seen on this forum disappointed, angry and shocked buyers complaining of being cheated either by the seller or the coin.
With all the buyers seeking Walmart prices for Tiffany coins there is bound to be disappointment.
People are depending on grading companies to somehow protect them from their own folly.
They should , as Brandon states be depending on qualified dealers trusted and tested by experience to provide quality coins at a sensible price.
With this fixation on price a market has been created for "just barely made it" coins which the bargain hunter deludes himself are a bargain because of the grade on the holder.
The seller in order to sell these coins will invariably;
offer poor out of focus photos. I believe this is deliberate and not due to poor skills. To try to judge a coin from these pics is ludicrous.
offer no returns(you know, you're buying the grading service grade, not mine)
over hype the coin.
and the worst of all, crack them out and into third world slabs strongly hinting that they are worth from $20,000 to $75,000.
Yet as we check ebay we find a never ending horde of bidders hoping that all the experienced buyers have somehow overlooked these super bargains.
Then we log onto the forum only to see many of these buyers screaming, moaning and threatining negs against the sleazy dealers who are only fishing for these suckers with their favorite bait..... price.
And that's just the ones that have some knowledge and realize that they did not get what they thought was a prize.
There are untold numbers of others that don't have a clue and will believe that they really got some great coins and will believe this even after trying to sell them, cursing all dealers in general for not offering top money for their prized bargains.
There seem to be a lot of these coins showing up on the forum with a request to "grade this coin"
It's actually a little late to ask for a grading opinion after the coin has been purchased
For the astute buyer who fills his collection with coins purchased from trusted dealers at a reasonable price for the quality there is a much lesser chance of any of these disappointments. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website; www.djwcoin.com
One more thing. I think some of you dealers are using this post as an excuse to SCARE potential customers into "only buying from a trusted dealer". YOu guys are entitled to your point of view, your livelihood depends on it. But, just to clarify, I have bought coins since the mid 70's. I have always bought a variety of type. I do not consider myself an expert grader, but can spot a "problem" coin in hand. Because I buy a variety of type, i find that when i use a dealer, I use a variety of dealers. Mostly they have been trustworthy. There have been times though, that a coin wasnt quite what i had hoped, but i did not deem it worth the trouble of returning. Also back when i was in my 20's.... Ii did not KNOW a problem coin from a good one. I believe there are many buyers who are like that. There have been many times I would have bought a particular coin had it not been priced so high! The only time I will buy from a dealer is when I can see he has an outstanding coin that I am willing to pay list price and better.
That does not mean that i dont like to sharpshoot on ebay and heritage and the like. Most of the time it works out for me. This time it did not. As I say I was just Venting!
<< <i>I think some of you dealers are using this post as an excuse to SCARE potential customers into "only buying from a trusted dealer". >>
Ken
We are all conditioned more and more to be cautious and suspicious when buying or selling (especially on the internet), but Brandon and Dave have explained to me why all the coins bought earlier from a 'trusted dealer' friend I have cultivated ended up being certified at the advertised grade or higher. Proved to me that what they have said is correct . . . know a good dealer and your chances are much better of at least getting shots at better quality coins.
Drunner
<< <i>
<< <i>I think some of you dealers are using this post as an excuse to SCARE potential customers into "only buying from a trusted dealer". >>
Ken >>
It is not my intent to scare anyone.
My whole point is that it is unlikely that a legitimate dealer would buy a coin graded ms 66 by any tpgs that was covered with "green gunk", excessive marks for the grade, discoloration or with any other problems. He therefore would not be selling it on ebay.
There are ebay "sellers" who actively seek out and buy these problem coins at a very low price only to try to sell them to price oriented buyers on ebay.
With photo shop and/or blurry photos they can take advantage of people who will pay the market price because of the grade on the holder.
While many will decline to offer a return, some will offer one knowing they can easily sell it again and again until it sticks thus avoiding negs and keeping their feedback attractive.
These "sellers" are not the same as legitimite dealers who have a reputation to protect.
I stand by my position that it is very unlikely that anyone will consistently buy coins at bargain basement prices and sell them at top dollar unless the buyer is one of the "sellers" I'm describing and will mis-represent the coin to the next buyer. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
BTW. Of course dealers will pound into your mind that purchases should be made from dealers. Ebay has put the hurt to some of them. Maybe if some dealers would have been better businessmen in the past and offered better prices for collectors meager offerings some of the collectors would not be playing with Ebay right now. I for one would not play on Ebay if some certain dealers would have been atleast half fair.
Ken
And you dealers know who you are. Most of us who have been around a while know what it is like to go into a coin shop with coins that you bought at ms-65 money and then get offered au-58 money when selling. It is a sickening experience but a learning one also. You know what they say "Fool me once..... Won't get fooled again".... G.W. Bush.... trying to quote the Who....
<< <i>Fairlaneman says "I for one would not play on Ebay if some certain dealers would have been at least half fair."
And you dealers know who you are. Most of us who have been around a while know what it is like to go into a coin shop with coins that you bought at ms-65 money and then get offered au-58 money when selling. It is a sickening experience but a learning one also. You know what they say "Fool me once..... Won't get fooled again".... G.W. Bush.... trying to quote the Who.... >>
Let's analyze this. Didn't the dealer lose out if he could have sold your ms 65 coin for greysheet ask and didn't offer at least greysheet bid. Maybe he already had several of the date you offered. Maybe your coin was just average and he felt it would be tough to sell at at market price.
Obviously he didn't really want your coin for whatever reason.
It is not wise in any case to have a dealer make an offer. You should know what you want for your coin. After all it is your coin.
I, like most dealers, judge each and every coin offered for sale as to "what can I sell it for?"
I don't see any sensible dealer letting a really nice pq coin slip away by offering a totally unrealistic price and refusing to budge.
Dealers would never be able to acquire a high end inventory to sell with this mo.
On the subject of low ball offers let's mention the bottom feeder offers all dealers get from the poor victimized ebay buyers.
How about listing a coin with a grey sheet bid of $5200. You list it for $5400.
You expect you may need to compromise for a little less if you get a serious offer.
You get a "question to seller" email wanting to know if you will take $2000.
You wind up selling it to another dealer at the next show for $5300.
The dealer winds up with a high end coin to sell to his customer and the ebay bottom feeder is still wasting time with ridiculous offers and finally scoring a pos at a fantastic price. That he can't sell to anyone with any knowledge for anywhere near what he paid.
He then posts on the forum about the injustice of getting a coin at a good price but it was grossly misrepresented.
Every now and then I suppose one is able to rip and flip from an inexperienced seller but I don't believe these tactics are a route to any kind of success in the long run. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
A collector walks into a shop with a almost complete set of Mercury Dimes that are PCGS graded. None are under MS64 and many are graded higher. The collector pulls out a date that is very tough to find and under priced within the market. The coin is not a dog either. The coin dealer offers less than 50% of Gray Sheet for the coin. The collector packs up and leaves the shop in disgust.
Situation number two. A collector has a few NGC graded Mercury Dimes that are from the early dates within the series. The collector sends the coins off to a Respected Dealer expecting a reasonable offer. The offer comes through and is equal to the value of the highest priced coin that was sent. The explanation from the dealer was that the coins were slabbed by NGC and that they really did not deal with NGC graded coins that much. Low and behold about 6 months later their site is loaded with NGC graded coins that are within the same series.
Now, would you in the light of these great offers continue trying to sell to dealers or just find another way, IE Ebay or other collectors, to dispose of your coins ?
Like I said before. All they had to do is be HALF FAIR.
I will be back after work today to see what you have to say. Please respond because your answers have been enjoyable to read.
Ken
<< <i>David analyze this.
A collector walks into a shop with a almost complete set of Mercury Dimes that are PCGS graded. None are under MS64 and many are graded higher. The collector pulls out a date that is very tough to find and under priced within the market. The coin is not a dog either. The coin dealer offers less than 50% of Gray Sheet for the coin. The collector packs up and leaves the shop in disgust.
Situation number two. A collector has a few NGC graded Mercury Dimes that are from the early dates within the series. The collector sends the coins off to a Respected Dealer expecting a reasonable offer. The offer comes through and is equal to the value of the highest priced coin that was sent. The explanation from the dealer was that the coins were slabbed by NGC and that they really did not deal with NGC graded coins that much. Low and behold about 6 months later their site is loaded with NGC graded coins that are within the same series.
Now, would you in the light of these great offers continue trying to sell to dealers or just find another way, IE Ebay or other collectors, to dispose of your coins ?
Like I said before. All they had to do is be HALF FAIR.
I will be back after work today to see what you have to say. Please respond because your answers have been enjoyable to read.
Ken >>
There must be hundreds of B&M joints that I have dropped into in my travels. I have seen the kind of inventory their store is stocked with and the prices they are asking for very mundane stuff.
Sometimes I engage them in a short conversation just to see how full of it they are.
I can't imagine buying any coins from these types nor would I waste time trying to sell them anything of any real value.
I never see any of these type dealers at the national shows I attend. I'm not sure they travel more than 50 miles to local shows.
They obviously grow their inventory from uninformed people who bring coins in with little or no knowledge of their worth.
I would think their own knowledge is limited as is their customer base and when they are presented with a rare coin are afraid of being buried in it because of not being sure who they could sell it to and for how much.
I don't have a store and therefore I am seldom offered coins for sale except at coin shows.
It's amazing that people will send $20,000 for the purchase a coin or coins sight unseen from me, trusting in my return policy, but balk when it comes to trusting me enough to send coins for appraisal.
At shows I generally only purchase coins that suit my taste for quality. I prefer the seller name a price for his coin or coins that I can accept or pass on.
If they seem at sea as to knowledge of their worth and I really want the coin, I will show them the grey sheet and offer bid for the coin. If it is really super pq and a must have for a client I may even offer more.
This brings us back to my statement that I will not let the seller walk away if I believe I can offer top dollar and still sell it for a profit.
Dealers who do, don't seriously want to buy it in the first place unless they have a huge safety margin.
I don't buy coins of low quality for any price and I won't quote a buying price to anyone I suspect is not serious about selling but just wants to find out what his coin is worth.
As to your two case histories in my opinion neither of the two dealers were on the level.
I buy NGC and ANACS as well as PCGS when I agree with the assigned grade. To use the holder as an excuse to lowball a truly high end piece in any holder is largely due to the dealers own lack of knowledge and confidence in his own grading ability.
Most of the dealers that I do business with operate under pretty much the same guidelines as me and perhaps I base my statements too much on dealings and conversations with them and not enough on the kinds that you have had experience with.
If I were a collector trying to sell my coins for the best possible price, I would choose one of several options.
Consign them to a major auction(If your consignment is valuable enough you should be able to negotiate no seller fees.)
Consign them to a dealer to sell at a show or shows with a firm bottom line you will sell for. Figure on 5-10% commission.
Sell them on ebay at a fixed price listing.
Rent a table at a major show and try to sell them yourself to either the public or to dealers who will come to your table looking to fill want lists. If your coins are nice they will pay well for them. It's different than taking the coins to them. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website: www.djwcoin.com
<< <i><< Fairlaneman says "I for one would not play on Ebay if some certain dealers would have been at least half fair."
And you dealers know who you are. Most of us who have been around a while know what it is like to go into a coin shop with coins that you bought at ms-65 money and then get offered au-58 money when selling. It is a sickening experience but a learning one also. You know what they say "Fool me once..... Won't get fooled again".... G.W. Bush.... trying to quote the Who.... >>
Let's analyze this. Didn't the dealer lose out if he could have sold your ms 65 coin for greysheet ask and didn't offer at least greysheet bid. Maybe he already had several of the date you offered. Maybe your coin was just average and he felt it would be tough to sell at at market price. >>
If that's the case, then the dealer should simply say he's not interested in the material - which most honest dealers will do. If a dealer offers AU58 money for MS65 coins, he's a slimeball. Period.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Why would you feel like you should neg him? You bought what was advertised. Return it and eat the 10 dollars. That is the way it goes. >>
Amen.
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<< <i>I have seen the quality of Ebay coin items drop over the last several months ... ..looks like I will turn more to auctions .
Anyone else have seen the ebay trend ? >>
I always thought it pretty much sucked. Perhaps you are developing a more discerning eye
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<< <i><< Fairlaneman says "I for one would not play on Ebay if some certain dealers would have been at least half fair."
And you dealers know who you are. Most of us who have been around a while know what it is like to go into a coin shop with coins that you bought at ms-65 money and then get offered au-58 money when selling. It is a sickening experience but a learning one also. You know what they say "Fool me once..... Won't get fooled again".... G.W. Bush.... trying to quote the Who.... >>
Let's analyze this. Didn't the dealer lose out if he could have sold your ms 65 coin for greysheet ask and didn't offer at least greysheet bid. Maybe he already had several of the date you offered. Maybe your coin was just average and he felt it would be tough to sell at at market price. >>
If that's the case, then the dealer should simply say he's not interested in the material - which most honest dealers will do. If a dealer offers AU58 money for MS65 coins, he's a slimeball. Period.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree but you should set the price for your coin and not give the dealer the opportunity to make an offer. This signals that you don't know the value of your own coin and places you in the same category as the "poor old widow" who is selling her late husband's collection.
I never meant to give the impression that there aren't plenty of sharks in this pond we have chosen to swim in. Don't go in the water with a bleeding cut. Dave
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins website; www.djwcoin.com
<< <i>
<< <i><< Fairlaneman says "I for one would not play on Ebay if some certain dealers would have been at least half fair."
And you dealers know who you are. Most of us who have been around a while know what it is like to go into a coin shop with coins that you bought at ms-65 money and then get offered au-58 money when selling. It is a sickening experience but a learning one also. You know what they say "Fool me once..... Won't get fooled again".... G.W. Bush.... trying to quote the Who.... >>
Let's analyze this. Didn't the dealer lose out if he could have sold your ms 65 coin for greysheet ask and didn't offer at least greysheet bid. Maybe he already had several of the date you offered. Maybe your coin was just average and he felt it would be tough to sell at at market price. >>
If that's the case, then the dealer should simply say he's not interested in the material - which most honest dealers will do. If a dealer offers AU58 money for MS65 coins, he's a slimeball. Period.
Russ, NCNE >>
But Russ, Ralph (local dealer at shows only), thinks he is such a nice honest guy.....though, he does meet your definition of slimeball...
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>By the way for anyone who wants a link I am not the best at that, but it is ebay item number 150114001307 >>
English is definitely his second language.
I don't see any PVC damage in the image. Where do you see it?
Doesn't NGC have a guarantee? Or not on copper?
It would only cost you a couple bucks to send it back First Class and insured.
I don't see the problem here.
Jonathan