A Trade Dollar I just picked up

AnkurJ · April 28, 2007 12:42AM

It is an a ANACS AU 58 holder. I got the coin in yesterday, and finally got a close look at it. ANACS did not site any problems on the holder, but when looking at it, I see hair lines....

Here are pics of the coin with a flash, and without. The coin is blast white. Do you think it has been cleaned ? I am curious that if it was how ANACS wouldnt catch this. Anyway, eveyrone pleae give their honest opinions:

Thanks everyone!
AJ

dan8402 · April 28, 2007 12:43AM

I agree that it looks cleaned to me from those pictures.

speety · April 28, 2007 12:55AM

Looks cleaned from the pics

pbfloyd · April 28, 2007 1:07AM

recently cleaned

hiyosilver · April 28, 2007 1:07AM

I think it looks like it's been cleaned also...

AnkurJ · April 28, 2007 1:09AM

I was looking at another 1877 S on ebay that was graded AU 58 by NGC, and it seems to have many of the same lines that make it appear to be cleaned. Does anyone know if this is specific to the date/mint? Could they be lines from polished dies?

AJ

roadrunner · April 28, 2007 1:11AM

AU coins usually have a lot of circulation marks. That first photo shows very harsh lighting that makes the coin appear brushed or wire wheeled...which it may not be. The 2nd looks acceptable imo with lines typically seen on circ coinage.

All 3 top tier grading services are somewhat inconsistent as to what is acceptable one week and what isn't the next week. They are also inconsistent amongst themselves as well. That said, ANACS coins do not carry the market weight that the other 2 do. All the services grade coins that we all know are lightly cleaned, but in an "acceptable" manner that was not very acceptable 15-20 years ago. The older the coin, the more acceptable the light cleaning is...and the more cleanliness allowed.

roadrunner

topstuf · April 28, 2007 1:14AM

To not put too fine a point on it, NGC might ALSO concur on the grade.

JimmyJoe · April 28, 2007 1:17AM

I'm going with wear. You see a lot of this field stuff on larger circulated coins.

291fifth · April 28, 2007 1:34AM

Cleaned.

neocirrhitus · April 28, 2007 1:41AM

I would just like to add that I have a very similar Trade Dollar, maybe not quite as heavily hairlined, but close. It is in a PCGS AU58 holder. So all you guys making comments about how it's because it's in an ANACS or NGC holder.......keep drinking the KOOL-AID

If you actually read the PCGS grading standards, hairlines are mentioned as acceptable on MS coins.......so on an AU coin I wouldn't think it would be a big deal.

MS/PR-60 No wear. May have many heavy marks/hairlines, strike may not be full
MS/PR-61 No wear. Multiple heavy marks/hairlines, strike may not be full
MS/PR-62 No wear. Slightly less marks/hairlines, strike may not be full
MS/PR-63 Moderate number/size marks/hairlines, strike may not be full
MS/PR-64 Few marks/hairlines or a couple of severe ones, strike should be average or above
MS/PR-65 Minor marks/hairlines though none in focal areas, above average strike
MS/PR-66 Few minor marks/hairlines not in focal areas, good strike

mirabela · April 28, 2007 3:01AM

PCGS might well have called it a 58 too. On trade dollars and seated dollars the services are awfully tolerant, and unless the luster has been just completely obliterated, which it does not look like it has been on this coin, they will still grade a cleaned coin. Annoying when you buy thinking the certification means never-messed-with, but that's the way it is. An uncleaned choice AU trade dollar is a truly scarce item, and when you find one, you should sell it to me.

NumisOxide · April 28, 2007 3:01AM

Light Cleaning.

BECOKA · April 28, 2007 3:21AM

Another reason to buy sight seen or make sure there is a return policy. On this series I would stay away from blast coins. I prefer them crusty. Although I have not seen too many crusty ones.

coinlieutenant · April 28, 2007 3:27AM

Remember that hairlines can exist on a coin without it being cleaned. This coin has obviously been dipped, but I am not certain it has been cleaned in a scrubbing manner. When you take a pic, you usually can only capture hairlines in one direction as well...the coin, when rotated might show other light lines in a different direction.

That being said, I personally dislike the coin.

AnkurJ · April 28, 2007 3:32AM

I do have an option to return the coin. It was purchaed for my 7070. I was told by the seller who owns a coin store that the coin is not cleaned, but if I would like, I can return it.

AJ

291fifth · April 28, 2007 3:34AM

My opinion: Return it.

stockwiz · April 28, 2007 3:42AM

too bad.. I wonder what goes through their minds when they slab stuff like this without giving it the proper designation...

orie · April 28, 2007 3:52AM

one of noe's?

TomB · April 28, 2007 4:17AM

It's obviously been dipped, perhaps it has been lightly cleaned, too. However, AU coinage can have significant circulation marks that may appear like a cleaning, especially under harsh lighting conditions. There also seems to be a planchet void behind Ms. Liberty. Overall, in my opinion only, the coin has a boatload of negative eye appeal.

roadrunner · April 28, 2007 4:50AM

If the store owner told you it was not cleaned, then I would return it. Also be more discerning as to what that dealer is trying to sell you. There are plenty of crusty coins to choose from in PCGS and/or NGC holders. I'd stick to them. Other TPG holders do not command the market respect, price, or liquidity of the other 2 services.

roadrunner

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 28, 2007 5:44AM

proper termonology for a coin like this is "wiped." It has not really been cleaned, but someone had run a cloth over it

AnkurJ · April 28, 2007 6:17AM

Doesnt this one look similar?

NGC AU58

AJ

sweetwilliet · April 28, 2007 7:23AM

It's interesting that the lines run in different directions, vertical versus horizontal, with and without a flash.

AnkurJ · April 28, 2007 1:04PM

<< <i>It's interesting that the lines run in different directions, vertical versus horizontal, with and without a flash. >>

Would that indicate severe cleaning or something else?

AJ

VicPortland · April 28, 2007 1:48PM

About the best advice one collector can give another is this: "The only opinion that REALLY matters is yours". If YOU like it, then it is a fine coin. If YOU are uncertain or have doubts, then send it back because over time, those doubts will get bigger and bigger...

airplanenut · April 28, 2007 2:59PM

At the very least, it's not an original piece. With more time, you can find a much, much nicer piece. I'd return that if you can.

fc · April 28, 2007 3:17PM

cleaned. return it. 291fifth is right in my opinion.

collectors, in my humble opinion, really need to start telling dealers
that coins like this are not what they are looking for. tell them
that they suck for the grade on the holder.

jhdfla · April 28, 2007 3:57PM

I'd return it as well, it's been cleaned. Of course as has been mentioned that's your decision whether or not you want to keep it, but I'd hold out for an original AU if that's the grade you are seeking.

John D'.

AnkurJ · April 29, 2007 1:37PM

Well I am happy to let everyone know that the seller has agreed to accept the coin back! Thanks everyone here for their opinions and thoughts, it is ALWAYS appreciated!

Ankur

A Trade Dollar I just picked up

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