Actual law enforcement members on the forum...can you help us understand

Bochiman · April 27, 2007 3:53AM

what is happening in this thread that it appears the "local" PD is not doing anything?

basestealer · April 27, 2007 4:07AM

Just because the guy hasn't been arrested doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. They couldn't arrest him anyway without a warrant, and it's possible they are waiting for him to take possession of some of the property he ordered on the stolen credit card. It's not about just "going to pick him up"--based on what? The word of CU forum member? That's not the sort of case that would hold water in court. The more evidence they gather before the arrest, the better the chances for criminal prosecution.

Just my opinion, of course.

nencoin · April 27, 2007 5:02AM

They aren't doing anything....Phoenix PD, that is. My detective has called them multiple times. As far as evidence, there is enough evidence that a crime is being committed. My detective has an IP address tracing back to that hotel on a web order that has a stolen credit card number. The bank has confirmed it, and the person who had their card number/name/billing address stolen has confirmed it. The person who placed the fraudulent order has called repeatedly (and brazenly) asking for the tracking number. They can make an arrest based on that, it seems...let the DA's office worry about conviction. If nothing else, send a squad car over just to make an inquiry.

Perhaps the dollar value is not high enough, perhaps the fact that we didn't stupidly send the package simply because we had a credit card number (and thus we're not out any money or merchandise), or perhaps there are too many violent crimes occurring this week in Phoenix that the police simply don't have the time or manpower to pursue this type of crime.

flaminio · April 27, 2007 5:04AM

Too busy giving out speeding tickets and other revenue enhancing tasks. There's no profit for them in this one.

BRdude · April 27, 2007 5:06AM

It's been my experience that they have to "make an appointment" with him and "interview" him. At his convienance of course, and he could "refuse"

fc · April 27, 2007 5:06AM

flamino,

or more likely the 100 domestic dispute events that happen
in the city daily. lets face it, city living is quite odd socially.

Bochiman · April 27, 2007 5:08AM

Good to see posts to this but still waiting to see if any resident LE respond....

ScarsdaleCoin · April 27, 2007 5:19AM

most likely it is the $$$ value.... there are just bigger fish to fry

Longacre · April 27, 2007 5:22AM

Probably afraid of the ACLU implications.

fishcooker · April 27, 2007 5:29AM

My brief experience is that if the value is less than $50,000, they don't investigate. That was a while back... could be $100,000 today.

Hmmmm.....I just may have to steel me $49,000.

Rob85635 · April 27, 2007 5:31AM

<< They couldn't arrest him anyway without a warrant, >>

Actually that statement is incorrect. The Phoenix Police can arrest him on any local charges he may have pending, or on any crime for which they have Probable Cause to believe he committed. As far as the case in question, I know of the frustration that some feel when trying to report frauds/identity thefts.

I am not a sworn peace officer, but I do work as a paid part time Dispatcher and I also work as a Volunteer with the local police department where I live. I also have a AAS degree in Crim Justice. I have worked as a paid / volunteer Dispatcher and Patrol volunteer for over 17 years. While I am not going to pretend to know the law as well as an officer, I do know a little, so I will speak from personal experience.

In the last five years I have been dispatching I have taken probably a %400 percent increase in calls for frauds / identity thefts / internet crimes. They are complicated for the officers to handle. Normally (at least in our agency) the call is assigned to a street patrol officer who does the initial investigation. Based on the case (normally the dollar amount) he/she will handle it or refer it to the detectives.

Normally the agency of jurisdiction is the agency "WHERE" the crime occured. We get calls all the time from people calling to report a fraud to us that occured in another jurisdiction. We refer them to the agency they need to speak with and normally it works. I will tell you that these types of cases do often cause confusion as to which agency will handle the case. Most departments work well and when they get the information they work with any other agencies (feds included) that need to be involved.

In this case, he is trying to get two agencies to cooperate faster to catch this guy. Will it happen? I have no idea. I hope it does. You do have to remember that fraud / identity theft / internet crimes are rising at an alarming rate and some agencies are not as well equipped to handle these kinds of cases, especially smaller ones. Trust me when I tell you that most law enforcement officials are doing the best they can with the limited resources they have.

<< it appears the "local" PD is not doing anything? >>

Who knows, none of us do. Maybe they are not doing enough or maybe they are, that is all subjective. What I will say in defense of this agency is that we do not know what is going on. Maybe they have a backlog of cases like this, maybe they are understaffed, maybe they are working with Phoenix already and we don't know it, maybe there are jurisdictional problems, maybe the coordination is difficult, mabye... well you get the idea. A city like Phoenix is swamped with violent crimes and what we call "hot calls" (in progress). I am fortunate to live in a smaller town where our department provides great customer service to the public. Again, no one knows whats going on with this active investigation but I certainly understand the frustration. Even our agency has had people mad because we could not get someone to work their case fast enough... unfortunately it happens

I do hope that if this crime is truly occuring as it is written that he will be caught and prosecuted.

ca0100000 · April 27, 2007 5:32AM

Try the Police Chiefs Office (602) 262-6747 and ask to speak to an on duty Watch Commander.
Maybe try the Maricopa Sheriff's Office (602) 876-1092.

basestealer · April 27, 2007 5:39AM

Rob, the problem with just arresting him on "suspicion" is that they have 24 hours to get him before a judge for an arraignment. If they don't have their ducks in order, the case is tossed. So while they may have the right to arrest him, they likely would not--the point here is not to arrest the guy and inconvenience him for 24 hours. The point is to build a real case against him and get a conviction. In order to do that, they need much more than the word of someone that lives in another state. Most arrests occur when the police have witnessed the crime occuring and know they have the evidence to convict. Otherwise, for petty crimes they do long form complaints or for serious crimes they have to investigate and build their case (get warrants)--it may take months or longer. If this guy doesn't live in Arizona, who knows. I will bet dollars to donuts, if they went down to that hotel room right now and hauled him in, an experienced criminal defense attorney would get him off. Of course, it could be that the police are not openly revealing what action they are taking at this time.

Rob85635 · April 27, 2007 5:58AM

Rob, the problem with just arresting him on "suspicion" is that they have 24 hours to get him before a judge for an arraignment. If they don't have their ducks in order, the case is tossed. So while they may have the right to arrest him, they likely would not--the point here is not to arrest the guy and inconvenience him for 24 hours. The point is to build a real case against him and get a conviction. In order to do that, they need much more than the word of someone that lives in another state. Most arrests occur when the police have witnessed the crime occuring and know they have the evidence to convict. Otherwise, for petty crimes they do long form complaints or for serious crimes they have to investigate and build their case (get warrants)--it may take months or longer. If this guy doesn't live in Arizona, who knows. I will bet dollars to donuts, if they went down to that hotel room right now and hauled him in, an experienced criminal defense attorney would get him off. Of course, it could be that the police are not openly revealing what action they are taking at this time.

<< Rob, the problem with just arresting him on "suspicion" >>

I hope I did not confuse anyone with my post. When I stated the hows and whys of how this guy "COULD" be arrested I was not referring to this case, I was making a general statement on how he could be arrested right now. If officers had local charges pending, a valid extraditable warrant, or had PC on any other crime, he could be arrested.

<< the point here is not to arrest the guy and inconvenience him for 24 hours. >>

True, but something to keep in mind. If the police went arround arresting people to "inconvenience" them, they would be getting sued for illegal arrest/detainment which is against the law. You cannot arrest someone to inconvenience them,.. sometimes I wish they could, I can think of a few people I would like to see "inconvenienced" hehehe

<< The point is to build a real case against him and get a conviction. In order to do that, they need much more than the word of someone that lives in another state. Most arrests occur when the police have witnessed the crime occuring and know they have the evidence to convict. >>

Absolutely correct sir. That is what should ideally be done, but done in a timely fashion. If the person who is making the complaint against the guy in the hotel has sufficient evidence to give to his local pd, they can use that to build enough probable cause to work with the Phoenix Police to get this guy, but it is at times VERY complicated.

<< Of course, it could be that the police are not openly revealing what action they are taking at this time. >>

Again correct. Police do not go out advertising what they are doing in an active investigation, for obvious reasons.

CollectorJeff · April 27, 2007 6:33AM

Different jurisdictions have different procedures for handling various crimes. It could be the PD or perhaps the SO is who handles identity theft in the area. Also, the credit card company may have a fair bit to do with what is or is not happening. This was an internet transaction ... does the jurisdiction SOP require fed contact?

DesertRat · April 27, 2007 6:47AM

Maybe they are already aware of his activities and are currently working him and not ready to move on him just yet?

Boothill40 · April 27, 2007 6:56AM

<< Good to see posts to this but still waiting to see if any resident LE respond.... >>

Every jurisdiction has it's own way of doing things as well as local laws and policy so it would do no good to say how I would handle this case from my location as I deal with each State/Department in a different manner based on past interactions.

I've booked dinks on out of state warrants as high as 100K only to contact the issuing agency and be told "let him go we won't extradite".

Flaminio "Press hard three copies"

Coxe · April 27, 2007 7:19AM

Perhaps using local police is not the way to go. If the transaction was over the internet using eBay in one state. the seller in another and the "buyer" in another using the US Mail, there shoudl be federal jurisdiction involving the postal investigators and several others.

Goober · April 27, 2007 8:15AM

Get ahold of Chris Hansen on Dateline. He was looking for a fraud fish to fry.

StampAlarm · April 27, 2007 8:35AM

<< flamino,

or more likely the 100 domestic dispute events that happen
in the city daily. lets face it, city living is quite odd socially. >>

actually............country living is quite odd socially..........

Texast · April 27, 2007 7:10PM

I guess I can give a little help here. The FBI, despite what you see in the warning at the start of a movie you rent at a video store does not investigate low dollar crimes, the $50,000 figure was correct as was pointed out in an earlier post, that was before 9/11, now it has to be major six figures or terrorist related, maybe if you told them the guy had a heavy Arabic accent they would do something sooner. The FBI has been re-tasked to Counter Terrorism efforts in most areas. They seldom even work bank robberies anymore, most of the time it's turned over to local officials.

Your best bet is to contact the District Attorney in your area, most times in smaller districts you can talk directly to them, larger districts you will want to direct your call to the DA's investigator, talk with them and let them know that you will be willing to provide all information you can and sign an affidavit. If they know that you are willing to participate in the process they tend to take things more seriously. They will in turn contact their counterpart in the jurisdiction where the subject is and the ball gets rolling from there.

Also you may try the credit card issuer, they have influence in these matters if they care to use it, for low dollar they usually don’t bother.

The local cop on the beat can do little without having a warrant, unless they witness the crime being committed himself or herself, in larger city’s the average officer needs to be assigned the complaint in order to investigate. Non-violent crimes seem to get little attention these days.

Give the DA a try it can’t hurt.

I retired from the DA’s office in 2004. I started in law enforcement in 1981, worked my way through the ranks, Patrol, Investigation up to Asst. Chief, and then went with the DA’s office as a Criminal Investigator. Retired after my second heart attack. Doc said I wouldn’t make it through a third one. Stress is the #1 killer of Law Enforcement Officers, so next time you see a cop instead of making donut jokes, tell them you appreciate their service to the community.

Tim

LouisCamp · April 27, 2007 9:24PM

Well, in Philadelphia they are too busy picking up the bodies from the night before.

One body a day is all we ask!

Lou

Actual law enforcement members on the forum...can you help us understand

Comments

Leave a Comment