1820 - The 17th Informative Picture Thread of the Bust Half Series. Post Your CBH's!

Nysoto · December 9, 2006 5:30PM

General guidlines - members can post pictures of Overton varieties for the year, or other pertinent information. Questions for 1820 CBH's are welcome, along with attribution advice. Keep picture size reasonable.

Ultimately, an image of each die marriage for the year is the goal. The rest of the series can be found Here

Thanks to Mozin for starting this great series of informative numismatic threads!

The year 1820 had the third lowest mintage of the CBH series with 751,122 coins and 8 different Overton die marriages. This year also has two 1820/19 overdates, both of them very visible without a loupe. Some believe 1820 O.101 is actually an 1820/18 or 1820/19/18. The O.108 variety has a doubled die reverse, which is from hub doubling and not machine doubling.

The 1820's are Sub-Design Type #4, which covers the years 1817-1825. When John Reich resigned in 1817, Robert Scot created a new obverse master die and master hub. Scot lowered the relief and modified the hair details, probably to obtain better metal flow and die longevity, as the aging Scot was now on his own to engrave the dies.

Here is my favorite overdate of the series, 1820/19 O.102, which has a rather flat obverse strike from heavy lapping:

mozin · December 9, 2006 6:57PM

Nysoto,

Thanks for starting this 1820 CBH thread.

Some diagnostics for Small Square Based 2 1820/19 O-101 R2:

Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. “20” cut over “19”, and maybe over “18”.

Reverse: “S” in “STATES” is sharply lower than “E”. “5” has a short curved top, and a large round loop. Some specimens show a die lump in the upper angle of “N”. “I” is centered below “T”.

mozin · December 12, 2006 2:24PM

With all the boycotting, it looks like I need to show another of my 1820s.

Some diagnostics for Small date Curled Base 2 1820 O-103a R2:

Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Late die state shows a crack from edge near star 11 down along edge of curl, to top of “1“, and to edge.

Reverse: “D” in “UNITED” is lower than ”E”. This specimen shows a rotated reverse. “I” is centered under left side of “T”.

JRocco · December 13, 2006 11:39AM

Here is an 1820 O-108, it utilizes Obverse 6 with Reverse G
Some characteristics of this die marriage are:
Obv-Star 5 is recut on two inside points, star 7 nearly touches the milling. It has a square base no knob 2
Rev-Right sides of T and I nearly in line. The lower leaves show recutting and there is a sharp center dot

AuldFartte · December 14, 2006 1:17AM

I love this series of threads !!!

It's what caused me to find and purchase on Overton 3rd Edition.
Now I gotta go find some unattributed Bust Halves ...

rhedden · December 14, 2006 5:48AM

O-101 and O-105

Fletcher · December 15, 2006 12:55AM

Beautiful halves ... I would really like to see pics of some of those using Cladiator's "third edge" photo techniques.

Barndog · December 15, 2006 1:12AM

what a good coin thread!

keets · December 15, 2006 1:22AM

great post and great pictures. a local dealer, Akron Coin, had an NGC MS62 or MS63 example of the 1820/19 that was about the nicest Bustie i've ever seen. it was priced prohibitively high because i think they didn't want to sell it!!! the last i looked the strategy was working, it was still in their case after about 3-4 years and may need to be pried free some day with persuasive dickering.

mozin · December 18, 2006 6:46AM

Some diagnostics for Small Curl Based 2 1820/19 O-102 R1:

Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil.

Reverse: “A’s” have defective right serifs. “I” is centered under left side of “T”.

tydye · December 22, 2006 4:17AM

Square base 2 Overdate

mozin · January 9, 2007 3:16PM

Some diagnostics for Large Date Knobbed Square Base 2 1820 O-105 R1:

Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Date is widest of the year. Star 2 is recut with two extra upper right points. (Obverse shared with O-104).

Reverse: Triple dentil below leftmost leaf. "5" is tipped sharply right. Left side of "I" under right side of "T".

cmanbb · February 1, 2007 11:39AM

Here is an O-106

A close up of the small lumps in the field below the "I" in United

Another close up of the "ME" joined at the top

mozin · February 17, 2007 1:49PM

Some diagnostics for Large Date Square Base Curl Top 2 1820 O-106 R1:

Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil. Date is very narrow. (Obverse shared with O-107.)

Reverse: A die line joins “M” and “E” at top. Small lumps in field below “NI”. “I” centered under left side of “T”. (Reverse shared with 1821 O-102.)

mozin · March 27, 2007 9:08AM

I know 1820 CBHs are hard to find, but somebody must have bought one in the past two months.

edmerlr · April 14, 2007 12:33PM

1820 O-104, R4+

This is the first use of obverse die 4 which was later used on O-105. Star 2 is recut with two extra upper points. The widest date of the 1820's. Open top knobbed 2 with a square base.

The second use of reverse die C, now called C-s2. This was first used on O-103. On the O-104 the die cracked in two distinct locations. The first through 50 C across the lower arrowpoint to the edge. The second through RI toward the tip of the right wing.

edmerlr · April 14, 2007 12:35PM

1820 O-107, R5

For me, this is the easiest 1820 to attribute.

Somebody forgot to put the left serifs on all of the E's in the legend.

AuldFartte · April 26, 2007 12:45AM

1820 O-106

edmerlr · April 26, 2007 1:01AM

AuldFartte:

A beautiful problem-free Bustie.

Thank you for the post.

Regards,

Ed

edmerlr · May 1, 2007 10:18AM

rhedden posted his 1820 O-105 die marriage on page one of this Thread.

I thought some of you would like to see pictures of the die cracks in the obverse die as it broke up while striking the LDS of this die marriage.

I will post pictures of both my EDS and LDS of the O-105 die marriage. The EDS is rated common or R1. The LDS is R3 for scarce.

The obverse of this die marriage was struck with Obverse die 4. This was the second and last use of this die. It was used immediately prior to strike the very scarce O-104.

The reverse of this die marriage was struck with Reverse die D. This was the only use of this die.

This is one of the EASIEST 1820's to attribute:

It is the only 1820 die marriage with a triple dentil segment by the left leaves.

Photos of the 1820 O-105, R1:

*************
Obverse die 4 broke up during the striking of the Late Die State of this die marriage.

Not just one break, but FOUR long die breaks.

It is a little tough to see the extent of the cracks in the coin I have pictured. I have marked them with those little red arrows again.

Photos of the 1820 O-105a, R3:

mozin · May 31, 2007 4:55AM

Some diagnostics for Small Square Based 2 1820/19 O-101a R3:

Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. “20” cut over “19”, and maybe over “18”. On this LDS, the thin line showing at the bottom loop of “9” inside “0” is disappearing.

Reverse: “S” in “STATES” is sharply lower than “E”. “5” has a short curved top, and a large round loop. Some specimens show a die lump in the upper angle of “N”. “I” is centered below “T”.

Tennisman12 · May 31, 2007 12:12PM

Here is my 1820 O 108. Note the segments that are struck in to the head(cap) on the obverse. What happened on this one? any thoughts?

mozin · May 31, 2007 1:11PM

Tennisman12,

Your coin is obviously defective, send it to me.

Tennisman12 · June 1, 2007 7:03AM

Mozin, I had to swap my first born for this one so can't send it your way! I am still having a difficult time figuring out how these segments got on the coin with no signs of any other strike issues. any ideas from anyone out there. the below pic is a close up by the double struck leaves which is a common issue with this date but the rim looks like something tried or did roll up or attempt to roll up the side of the coin?

mozin · June 1, 2007 8:52AM

Those look to be marks from another Bust Half Dollar. Somehow, maybe the other coin was at an angle to your coin, and then it was hit into your coin??? Maybe your coin planchet was fed in only partially, where it received only a weak strike because the workers noticed the plan sticking out. Then the same plan was inserted properly to make your coin???

When FEVER sees your post, I am sure he will know better.

speety · June 1, 2007 8:55AM

I agree with mozin, looks like it was stiking out and softly struck before a mint employee corrected the position of the planchet and giving it a complete strike. Cool Coin!

FEVER · June 1, 2007 10:13AM

Tennisman12,

Go to this thread and peruse the dentil track discussion:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=578461&highlight_key=y&keyword1=dentil tracks

Edgar

FEVER · June 1, 2007 10:20AM

1820/19, O-102, R1 LDS with soft obverse center.

Edgar

FEVER · June 1, 2007 10:23AM

1820, O-105, R1

Have you ever wondered what a Capped Bust half dollar looks like after sitting for 40 years in a old leather pocket purse, with several other old coins? Here you go!

Edgar

mozin · June 1, 2007 10:48AM

<< <i>Tennisman12,

Go to this thread and peruse the dentil track discussion:

Previous thread on CBH Dentil Tracks

Edgar >>

Too bad so many pictures are now missing from the earlier BiddlesBank thread.

Tennisman12 · June 2, 2007 9:37AM

Mozin, I agree, I wonder if Biddlesbank can turn in to Zorro and re-appear!, and thanks everone for your comments on the double strike comments on the O 108

JRocco · June 19, 2007 10:57AM

Here is a die state not yet seen. Mozin posted the O-103a earlier in this thread, here is the O-103. I was lucky enough to pick this one up from a top CBH guy. Thanks again.
1820 O-103 R1
This utilizes Obverse 3 and Reverse C
Obv- This is a small, curled base, curled top 2 and a large 0, the date is low with the stars large and clear of milling.
Rev- Most early state examples show the second T in STATES has been punched over a low first punch, This reverse shows narrow A'a with small serifs at the base, the base of the D is much lower than the base of the E

23Pairer · June 19, 2007 10:58AM

Thanks for the thread start! Very interesting and informative.

edmerlr · June 21, 2007 1:44AM

This is another posting of the 1820/19 O-101, R2 die marriage.

I wanted to show my Early Die State example of this coin.

The O/P book states: "Some, but not all specimens, show a die lump in angle of N. A fine die crack from edge across lower pair of olive leaves to claw is evident on some specimens."

My EDS of this coin does not have the die lump in the N nor does it have the die crack.

Photos of my EDS 1820 O-101, R2:

jobiwan115 · July 20, 2007 1:29PM

Please share your thoughts on my contribution to this thread. She's seen better days, I know:

mozin · July 20, 2007 5:07PM

jobiwan115,

Your Bustie looks to be O-103 R1.

edmerlr · August 24, 2007 11:55AM

A month since the last post on this thread.

Here's some 1820's on these pages:

SomeGuyFromMichigan · August 25, 2007 1:10PM

All I can say is AWESOME Ed !
You just don't see them this nice!
I bet in the grades you have, one would need to search high and low to match them.

Mike....

mozin · October 6, 2007 3:47PM

Some diagnostics for Large Date Square Base Curl Top 2 1820 O-108 R2:

Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. 2 is tipped to the left, unlike the two previous marriages. Star 5 is recut on two lower inside points. Star 7 points to upper half of dentil, upper edge of headband, and nearly touches dentils.

Reverse: Lower leaves are recut. Sharp centering dot between crossbars 4 & 5 at left. Right sides of I and T are in line.

drddm · November 2, 2007 2:32PM

I thought I would add my latest Bustie (1820 O-108) to the official 1820 thread....bought this beauty raw and PCGS gave it a XF-45. The obverse strike is a little weak (especially at the center) but the reverse looks AU-50....Enjoy!!!

FEVER · November 2, 2007 4:38PM

BEAUTIFUL O-108!

Edgar

AU58WALKERS · November 3, 2007 3:15AM

another O-108

mozin · June 1, 2013 7:52AM

Now that is a pretty Bustie.

AnkurJ · June 1, 2013 9:24AM

Here is mine. I love this coin.

Overton 103a Curl Base 2, Small Date

JRocco · June 1, 2013 1:05PM

Here is another O-102 20/19

mozin · June 8, 2013 8:07AM

O-108

maibockaddict · February 28, 2014 2:23AM

1820/19 O-102

maibockaddict · February 28, 2014 3:53AM

1820 O-103

maibockaddict · March 1, 2014 3:59AM

1820 O-105

lkeigwin · March 1, 2014 10:34AM

Here are a couple more additions to the thread.

The first is my dirtiest bust half. I like to think it's 19th century grime. O.103a, R2.

The second is an O.108 R2 from the collection of Roger Solomon and a class IV doubled die, true hub doubling on the reverse (left wing, talons, claws, leaves, berries and arrow heads). The pictures don't do it justice.
Lance.

kaz · March 1, 2014 12:32PM

beautiful halves! Glad this thread was resuscitated. I would be happy with a vf-ef example but they are scarce as hens' teeth.

1820 - The 17th Informative Picture Thread of the Bust Half Series. Post Your CBH's!

Comments

Leave a Comment

Categories