Given the suspect nature of some/most of Breen's research, what can a common collector do to protect
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I have been reading, with interest, the Breen Half Cent book. Generally, I think the book is very helpful. However, the problem that I have is that I never know whether what I am reading is accurate. For example, last week I put up a post about Breen's description of a young woman as being the model for the bust half cent. Several prominent EAC members on these boards threw up all over Breen's theories. Today I put up a post about Breen's opinion of the matron head half cent and its uninspired design. Again, the thread was met with scandelous words such as "horse's patootie." Other than being mortified at reading the word patootie in print, it got me thinking about a related issue.
How does a common collector (such as myself) reconcile what he is reading in Breen with what is truly accurate information, and with what is completely made up nonsense? Personally, I have never been in the government's archives like a few members of these boards, so I really have no access to original government documents to verify Breen's accuracy. Some EAC members have PM'd me and kindly offered to send me copies of original documentation for my files, though.
Other than reading the original documents myself and verifying everything that I read in Breen, how can I help myself in determining whether what I am reading in Breen is accurate or not? I am almost at the point where I am ready to throw my Breen Half Cent book in the garbage, but it can't be that the entire book is useless. Can anyone comment?
How does a common collector (such as myself) reconcile what he is reading in Breen with what is truly accurate information, and with what is completely made up nonsense? Personally, I have never been in the government's archives like a few members of these boards, so I really have no access to original government documents to verify Breen's accuracy. Some EAC members have PM'd me and kindly offered to send me copies of original documentation for my files, though.
Other than reading the original documents myself and verifying everything that I read in Breen, how can I help myself in determining whether what I am reading in Breen is accurate or not? I am almost at the point where I am ready to throw my Breen Half Cent book in the garbage, but it can't be that the entire book is useless. Can anyone comment?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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Comments
<< <i>how can I help myself in determining whether what I am reading in Breen is accurate or not? >>
Stop reading Breen.
given Breen's demise and the understanding today that he was a serial child molester and eventually died in prison as a result, i believe he suffers from extreme bias to a degree that other Numismatic writers don't. given the entire body of his work and the number of reputable Numismatists he partenered with in his writings, i find it strange that certain isolated things are pounded on so much. additionally, much of his work is 20-30 years old and all the "experts" of today only have everything that's been uncovered as a result of his work to impugn him.
he made errors and added his own suppositions and determinations in some(many) cases, but he did the work that needed to be done in giving us some good research compilations. as i said in another of your threads, he's one of the giants whose shoulders the EAC guys are standing on, he furthered the research of others and no doubt made enough true and unimpeachable additions that the inaccuracies can be overlooked, or at least not judged so harshely.
perhaps it's best to seperate the Numismatic writer that Breen was from the other aspects of his life which are so repugnant. judged on our own worst characteristics, none of us would be left standing, judged on our best none could be believed, judged as a whole we each might be seen as a flawed human being who can contribute somewhat.
throw the book away if you want to, but in my opinion that probably says more about you than it does about Breen.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
as i said, the Numismatic research is judged as harshely as it is due to the personal life of the man. it's much like Sheldon is judged quite harshly because he was a thief and recently it's been talked about how Ford was a counterfieter. all these things come into play. Breen did quite a bit of noteworthy research, imagine undertaking the task of writing a compilation of the entire realm of known Colonial and U.S. Coinage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nitpicking about the few things---in relation to the entire work---is just a bit over the top for me.
evidentally you are a bit more sensitive to the bias than i am. after thinking about it some more, i figure you'd be better off if you dismissed everything Breen has written and get rid of anything which was subsequently influenced by his research and go the extra mile of not listening to anything which can be traced back to his works.
It's hard to get more than three posts into any thread related to Breen without someone bringing about his personal life.
<< <i>that is understood, but unfortunately everyone knows about his personal life and that clouds their judgement to a degree, whether intended or not, whether known or not, it's sub-conscience and unfortunately human nature.
It's hard to get more than three posts into any thread related to Breen without someone bringing about his personal life. >>
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Breen was correct often, probably the majority of his research, but like the rest of the world, was not perfect.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
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Use the Encyclopedia of United States Half Cents along with other resources.
If you really have an interest in the Little Half Sisters, make a study of the series.
In a few years of collecting the Half Cents and studying them, you'll come to find out what's what.
Ray
One problem with questions about Breen's numismatic work is that a great many people are so blinded by his personal life problems that they can't compartmentalize it and attack his work, not because it is questionable, or because it may be fiction, or an opinion, but rather because Breen said it. They feel the material doesn't matter, just the messenger. By similar logic, the Vatican, since the Catholic Church condemns homosexuality, should whitewash over the Sistine Chapel ceiling because Michelangelo painted it.
Sometimes bad people do good things. Don't ignore the good because of the bad, rather take it, use, it and improve upon it.
<< <i>The simple answer is that you can't completely trust the books that ANYONE has published. So the thing is, don't accept just one book as gospel. Read works by more than one author. If there are differences, search out more sources, dig to find the truth (or dig to find the answer you want, depending on what kind of lawyer you are.
One problem with questions about Breen's numismatic work is that a great many people are so blinded by his personal life problems that they can't compartmentalize it and attack his work, not because it is questionable, or because it may be fiction, or an opinion, but rather because Breen said it. They feel the material doesn't matter, just the messenger. By similar logic, the Vatican, since the Catholic Church condemns homosexuality, should whitewash over the Sistine Chapel ceiling because Michelangelo painted it.
Sometimes bad people do good things. Don't ignore the good because of the bad, rather take it, use, it and improve upon it. >>
Very well written and sound advice.
A few years ago, I was in Rome on an assignment for The Man, and I took a tour of the Vatican and stopped by to see the Sistine Chapel. I am no holy roller, but even I got a little weepy when I looked at the beauty of those frescoes. The funniest thing is when the crowd gets too loud in there (it is a chapel, you know), the guards clap their hands and it echos in the room, and the crowd quiets down like little school children.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The majority of the problems are associated with Breen's later works. His early works of the 50s and 60s were very solidly researched and quite well reasoned. Later on Breen apparently relied too much on his "photographic memory", but by this time as one person noted "after 350 acid trips the data gets kind of scrambled" and Breen references records that don't exist - he gets dates, content and names mixed up. His deteriorating mental state and personal life also didn't help matters.
Possibly his two worst works are the Encyclopedia of US Coins and the Large Cent book. I worked as a tech editor on the LC book and tried to correct his errant pronouncements, but the project was short-fused and I sadly missed probably more than I corrected. My personal copy is largely sticky notes and red pen marks. The unofficial version of this book - aka "The Purloined Purple Book" - presents a sad and disturbing view of a very unsettled mind.
I get irritated with Breen because of his later errors of mis-referencing and blank pronouncements that led me on wild goose chases when I probably should just feel pity at the loss of what could have been the premier US numismatic historian.
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<< <i>how can I help myself in determining whether what I am reading in Breen is accurate or not? >>
Stop reading Breen. >>
BTW, sorry that "patoot" offended. It was intended to offend Breen. Just hoping he can read this from the pits of hell
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.