For the cud experts-- where exactly does that broken piece of die go when it breaks off?
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I need to get out my Taxay book or Breen book on minting processes and look this one up, but I don't have either in front of me. I understand that a cud is formed when a piece of the die breaks away. I have never seen an actual minting press, but I assume that both the hammer die and anvil die are well seated, and there is no open space beneath or above them, for lack of a better term. When a piece of the die breaks off, where exactly does that piece go? Does it fly out of the press? Does it stick to a coin and get ejected? Does it stay in the die and continues to be pulverized? I am not sure if a cud is a continuum, or whether Coin 1 is cudless and Coin 2 magically has a cud. Can anyone help?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Die crack
Rim-to-rim die crack
Increasingly wider rim-to-rim die crack
Retained cud (sometimes)
Full cud
Larger full cud (as more pieces break off)
When the pieces break off, they could go anywhere. I think I've seen a picture of a coin with a cud and a piece of die steel struck into it. There are a bunch of known coins with cuds that also have strange patches of die damage elsewhere on that die or the opposite -- it turns out that the part of the die that broke off came between the two dies and was then struck, damaging them. There is a fairly common-ish 1955-S cent in this category (pics)
That's why mint workers wear goggles.
on the reverse which appears may have been made by the broken die but it's not ident-
ifiable so might well be something else. It might be caused by debris which broke the
dies in the first place.
interest and respect over the past
decade or so.
I get alot of comments from my customers
asking why I don't list Cud's on my
list/website.
The reason? Every time I buy them, either
on Ebay occasionally, or in deals, I just put
them aside - I feel they are very, very, undervalued
and unappreciated, AND, I'm waiting for someone
who has the rights to the "Design Cud" book (I believe)
to re-issue it, or possibly come out with a totally new
Book on Cuds.
Most cuds are worth $5-$25, some are $50-$75, and there
are a few that are worth well over $1,500 each.
There's enough of them to either try to collect 'em all,
collect a specific denomination, or, you can collect them
by country too !
Anyway, I have a good amount of them just put aside -
waiting for the next new Cud Book......
<< <i>In General, Cud's have fallen in
interest and respect over the past
decade or so.
I get alot of comments from my customers
asking why I don't list Cud's on my
list/website.
The reason? Every time I buy them, either
on Ebay occasionally, or in deals, I just put
them aside - I feel they are very, very, undervalued
and unappreciated, AND, I'm waiting for someone
who has the rights to the "Design Cud" book (I believe)
to re-issue it, or possibly come out with a totally new
Book on Cuds.
Most cuds are worth $5-$25, some are $50-$75, and there
are a few that are worth well over $1,500 each.
There's enough of them to either try to collect 'em all,
collect a specific denomination, or, you can collect them
by country too !
Anyway, I have a good amount of them just put aside -
waiting for the next new Cud Book...... >>
What about the cuds that if you squint just right look like the Virgin Mary?
<< <i>It goes to the same place the extra sock in the dryer goes.
Russ, NCNE >>
I believe the missing sock in the dryer goes into the "hozone layer".
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
In the old days, I would have thought you meant 42nd St. Now, I'm not so sure where you mean.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I believe the missing sock in the dryer goes into the "hozone layer".
In the old days, I would have thought you meant 42nd St. Now, I'm not so sure where you mean. >>
I agree. The City has lost its character. Now we have the Disney Store and ESPN Zone in Time Square, when before we had good, old fashioned street walkers.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I believe the missing sock in the dryer goes into the "hozone layer".
In the old days, I would have thought you meant 42nd St. Now, I'm not so sure where you mean. >>
Socks = "hose".
"Ozone layer" = area above the earth where the ozone is.
Therefore, the "hozone layer" is the area above the earth where the missing socks go.
Sorry, sometimes my humor is deep enough that explanations are required.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe the missing sock in the dryer goes into the "hozone layer".
In the old days, I would have thought you meant 42nd St. Now, I'm not so sure where you mean. >>
Socks = "hose".
"Ozone layer" = area above the earth where the ozone is.
Therefore, the "hozone layer" is the area above the earth where the missing socks go.
Sorry, sometimes my humor is deep enough that explanations are required.
Got it right away... No explanation necessary........ I'm an inveterate punster.....
<< <i>I believe the missing sock in the dryer goes into the "hozone layer".
In the old days, I would have thought you meant 42nd St. Now, I'm not so sure where you mean. >>
Sad, but true.......
<< <i>I am not sure if a cud is a continuum, or whether Coin 1 is cudless and Coin 2 magically has a cud. >>
Sometimes, sometimes not.
Most cuds start as die cracks which lengthen, go rim to rim, widen, and then the piece of the die breaks away. (It is possible for a die to go straight from good to BANG a piece breaks off.) On the hammer die there is nothing to restrain that piece of die and it simply falls out. It may land in the coining chamber and damage the dies on the next strike. It may fall on the collar and then either vibrate/bounce around and either get between the dies or finally bounce out. Or it may just pop off sideways and shoot out of the coining area completely. (The press, not the room.)
The anvil die is a little different matter. On the open collar presses the broken piece would normally just fall away. On the close collar presses though the anvil die is restrained within the collar and so is the broken piece of die. Since it can't fall away it usually gets shoved downward and wedged in place creating a retained cud since because the piece of die is still there the metal filling the cud may still make contact with it and receive some of the design. Sometimes the piece of die can get loose and finally escape the press.
It is possible for a retained cud to happen on an open collar anvil die but it is unusual. Normally on open collar coins you get full cuds on either hammer and anvil dies. On close collars as a general rule you get full cuds on hammer dies and retained cuds on anvil dies.