Whats the different between PR69 and PR70??

Matthew3056 · April 18, 2007 7:49AM

I was wondering how common is it for PCGS to release a PR70 graded coin?? Because i had sent in some coins and they totally flawless even under microscope yet they were rated PR69...

Whats the expectations for a PR70 if that's the case????

just was wondering...

ziggy29 · April 18, 2007 7:51AM

Often, thousands of dollars and one or two tiny marks or spots you practically need a microscope to see.

[Edit to add: Oh, and having the winning lottery ticket.]

vega1 · April 18, 2007 8:10AM

Welcome. This topic has been discussed many times before here. Using the search function will yield lots of reading on the topic.

Here I searched on '69' and '70' in the title:

Edited to take out my stupid non-working link. Try the search function, you'll get stuff.

FLBuffaloHunter · April 18, 2007 8:12AM

Details, such as a well struck coin that is centered and has an even rim all the way around.

Cladiator · April 18, 2007 8:55AM

<< <i>Whats the different between PR69 and PR70?? >>

$$$$$$$$$$

Hyperion · April 18, 2007 9:01AM

A 69 is something obviously not perfect obv/rev/edge.

A 70 may or may not being something not obviously imperfect obv/rev/edge.

Clear?

Matthew3056 · April 18, 2007 1:04PM

So basically according to what I have read, and from other opinions of other grading tiers, such as what ICG says I personally think the grades released are CONTROLED and not a free flowing type of market!!

Money don't mean nothing when it comes down to the PCGS grading process, SINCE under the PCGS Service Guarantee it specifically states ALL DOCUMENTS AND MARKS from the owner are removed and a generic non-traceable information is put on the coins so the graders CANNOT know who's coins there grading!!!

It leads me to believe they can only put out a certain number of like PR70 or MS70's in a day to CONTROL the graded coins market!!!

As I have heard from ICG that they unfairly grade a LOT of true PR70's and MS70's, and downgrade them to MS or PR 69's!!!

Hint: This is one reason why James Taylor a PCGS grader got out of grading for PCGS, and started ICG!!!

I LIKE PCGS in a way that there the #1 grading service in the world but I really don't like how they grade coins. As that ONE POINT difference makes the different between owning a $200 coin or a $5,000.00 coin!!!

So I don't know this makes me VERY suspicious about PCGS grading!!!

That's mainly why I was asking about the differences between a PR69 and PR70 hoping to hear from a true PCGS grader!!!

mozeppa · April 18, 2007 1:05PM

mostly....ego.

persaus · April 18, 2007 1:11PM

If the Grader didnt have problems with his wife the night before........you might have a .02% chance.

basestealer · April 18, 2007 1:14PM

Matthew, the problem is really that idiots put a $5000 difference between a 69 and a 70. Really, the difference should be a negligable as the difference between the two numbers. Think about this--before grading services existed, with coins and baseball cards, the "price guides" were for raw cards and coins, and would place a near mint card at say $100, and a mint example at $125. The steps up between mint state grades were similar with coins. Now, it's laughable at the difference in price a small difference in grade fetches. It's not worth it. When these companies go out of business, those premiums go out the window overnight. So if I were buying slabbed coins, I would focus more on sliders and 62's than "perfect" coins. The market doesn't appreciate them so long as they're in plastic, but when that plastic ceases to be worth anything, those coins are right there with the best of them.

FLBuffaloHunter · April 18, 2007 1:15PM

Many people believe PCGS grading standards are more lenient now than they were when the first started. This has led to the belief that the orginal green PCGS holders are more conservatively graded.

FLBuffaloHunter · April 18, 2007 1:17PM

<< <i>If the Grader didnt have problems with his wife the night before........you might have a .02% chance. >>

In order for a coin to grade a 70, a minimum of 3 graders must look at the coin and agree on the grade.

RedTiger · April 18, 2007 1:49PM

Some coins are obviously not 70s even to the naked eye, even with an amateur grader. For the others, it is a bit witchcraft, a bit marketing, an eye of newt, and tail of bat. Some say the rim, and the strike, are two things that separate 70s from the also rans.

PCGS gives out fewer 70s than NGC which gives out fewer than ICG. Market prices reflect that. PCGS has been giving out a higher percentage of 70s on the newer commems. NGC makes their pop report public. For PCGS you have to be a paid member, or buy an old copy. ICG doesn't publish their pops.

One more footnote, PCGS doesn't give out 70s on MS Silver Eagles any more because of spotting problems.

BobaFett72 · April 18, 2007 1:50PM

one point. simple math

thousands of dollars.

CarlWohlforth · April 18, 2007 2:02PM

<<Hint: This is one reason why James Taylor a PCGS grader got out of grading for PCGS, and started ICG!!!>>

There was a poster to these forums who now has a full time position as a grader for ICG. I think ICG knows a lot about coins and coin related items. To me they are loose in their grading of super grade moderns.

Can you tell the difference between a PCGS PR 70 and a PCGS PR 69? Can you tell the difference between an ICG PR 70 and a ICG PR 69? Have you compared an ICG PR 70 with a PCGS PR 69?

Well I have. I respect the numismatist who joined ICG and know he knows more about grading than I do even though he is younger than I. However the market agrees with me that an ICG 70 is worth less than a PCGS 70.

Is that due to a "quota" system? I don't know if PCGS limits the quantities of 70s they allow. However I do know ICG grants 70 to coins that are not perfect to my eye w/o using a microscope.

I've personally examined coins that people thought should be 70 (perfect) that were in PCGS 69 holders. The owners were indignant. They were were wrong, the coins had flaws. Perhaps they didn't look at many coins in person?

Coinlearner · April 18, 2007 2:26PM

I really can not tell the difference. But , Did send in a large submission alittle while ago and got back about 15 70"s. First thing I did was compare one(69) beside the other(70), in same series. I could immediatly tell the "eye appeal" luster , full strike, no contact marks, etc. from 70. I found a couple of "defects" on 69. Of course , if I looked at one at a time it is not likely I"d tell the difference.

CarlWohlforth · April 18, 2007 2:33PM

<< Of course , if I looked at one at a time it is not likely I"d tell the difference.>>

You would if you looked at that super high quality coin every day, all day long, for months at a time.

MoneyLA · April 18, 2007 5:52PM

I sold my date run of 1960 to 1964 proof-70 pcgs Washingtons because PCGS changed the registry rules and made pr69dcam washingtons more "valuable" than proof 70s.

and threatened with a drop in the rank of my #1 pcgs registry set, I sold the darn set while it was still #1. today, in the all time finest list its about #10 because those pr69dcams got more registry points than my very rare pr70s... including the 1960 and 1963 which were pop 5 coins.

alan mendelson

jmj3esq · April 18, 2007 10:54PM

Luck

tahoe98 · April 19, 2007 12:57AM

POOF!!!!

Rob85635 · April 19, 2007 2:23AM

<< <i>Whats the different between PR69 and PR70?? >>

PR70
- PR69
= 0001

X=1 ? hehe

Boom · April 19, 2007 2:29AM

One point and a whole lot of money!

seemyauction · April 19, 2007 3:17AM

The only difference is opinion and a few bucks....

homerunhall · April 19, 2007 4:27AM

According to the PCGS grading standards as published in the PCGS RARE COIN MARKET REPORT a 70...

"shows no imperfections under 5 power magnification. Must be 100% fully struck and have full original luster and outstanding eye appeal."

We do not have a quota for 70s. Any coin that meets the standards above will get a 70 from PCGS.

hrh

13PacesEast · April 19, 2007 4:45AM

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Whats the different between PR69 and PR70??

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