SGS staining the hobby

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 8:49AM

How does this guy Abomb continue to sell over graded crap?

Who are these people buying SGS? Do they live in a shoebox? Why are they happy with their SGS coins?

Doesn't anyone look at all the negative threads on Feebay, and CU?

This guy has 1600+ listings all the time, there is a subculture out there that is totally misled.

Doesn't Feebay care that this service is full of shat?

I just had to vent, every where I go, there's another SGS slab.

How does one put his guy out of business?

I wish I had enough money to buy all 1600 plus listings, and neg every one of them.

Any ideas, or thoughts?

flaminio · April 17, 2007 8:50AM

<< Any ideas, or thoughts? >>

Lots, but the last time I criticized a TPG I got sued, so I'll just keep my mouth shut this time.

Zoins · April 17, 2007 8:51AM

Do they have their own forums where they pat each other on the back?

I bet they aren't hanging out here.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 8:52AM

<<Lots, but the last time I criticized a TPG I got sued, so I'll just keep my mouth shut this time. >>

SGS isn't a TPG.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 8:55AM

<<bet they aren't hanging out here>>

They need to.

flaminio · April 17, 2007 9:03AM

<< <<Lots, but the last time I criticized a TPG I got sued, so I'll just keep my mouth shut this time. >>

SGS isn't a TPG. >>

He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 9:06AM

<<He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.>>

So I can be sued for badmouthing a service? SGS is a bottom feeding organization. Will this get me sued?

It's my opinion!

HonoluluDude · April 17, 2007 9:19AM

Personally, I thought milk spots were staining the hobby.

flaminio · April 17, 2007 9:21AM

<< <<He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.>>

So I can be sued for badmouthing a service? SGS is a bottom feeding organization. Will this get me sued?

It's my opinion! >>

You're new here, eh? Google up "ACG lawsuit".

Bottom line: Yes, you can get sued for badmouthing a service. And don't count on the ANA helping -- when the chips are down, they'll cave.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 9:22AM

<<Personally, I thought milk spots were staining the hobby.>>

Yes milk spots suck, just like SGS.

I'm gonna finish smoking my doob.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 17, 2007 9:24AM

The hobby is in great shape with all the guys cracking coins out.
If aboncom misses one or two, I am sure the crackout guys will send it to NGC for an upgrade, then off to PCGS.

Eventually the kool aid man wins

Jcarney · April 17, 2007 9:43AM

<< 

<< Any ideas, or thoughts? >>

Lots, but the last time I criticized a TPG I got sued, so I'll just keep my mouth shut this time. >>

Jcarney · April 17, 2007 9:48AM

<< <<He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.>>

So I can be sued for badmouthing a service? SGS is a bottom feeding organization. Will this get me sued?

It's my opinion! >>

Try Googling ACG lawsuit. Or better yet, search the archives here and for the rec.collecting.coins newsgroup. You are free to have any opinion you wish. You are also free to voice your opinion. Those who may not like your opinion are free to sue you. They may not win, hell, they may not even intend to win, but defending against a lawsuit in expensive and extremely annoying. So yes, you can be sued for badmouthing a service.

Manorcourtman · April 17, 2007 10:02AM

<< 

<< <<He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.>>

So I can be sued for badmouthing a service? SGS is a bottom feeding organization. Will this get me sued?

It's my opinion! >>

Try Googling ACG lawsuit. Or better yet, search the archives here and for the rec.collecting.coins newsgroup. You are free to have any opinion you wish. You are also free to voice your opinion. Those who may not like your opinion are free to sue you. They may not win, hell, they may not even intend to win, but defending against a lawsuit in expensive and extremely annoying. So yes, you can be sued for badmouthing a service. >>

Time to expose the slime of the hobby. MS70 is not a standard grade.

Zoins · April 17, 2007 10:03AM

<< Time to expose the slime of the hobby. MS70 is not a standard grade. >>

Maybe they mean "treated with MS70"

Shortgapbob · April 17, 2007 10:14AM

The best thing we can do is attempt to educate those who are new to the hobby and explain the differences between the top tier companies and the lesser quality companies without getting ourselves into any sort of legal issues. I always fear that those who are burned by scams when they enter the hobby will become disgruntled and quickly leave the hobby.

Zoins · April 17, 2007 10:17AM

We can set up a Google bomb campaign so SGS related keywords all point to this forum. Then anyone looking up SGS on Google will end up here.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 10:19AM

<>

Exactly, thats why SGS needs to be eliminated.

Zoins · April 17, 2007 10:20AM

<< <>

Exactly, thats why SGS needs to be eliminated. >>

A job for the ANA? Maybe the ANA with a new board?

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 10:29AM

Any fraud lawyers out there?

Is SGS using deceptive business practices?

SGS references current price guide values. Is this false advertising? (They don't cross, not even close, we all know that)

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 10:34AM

This is what I mean by referencing a PCGS price guide, from random listings.

Why doesn't PCGS shut em down? It's their name being misrepresented.

WOW!!!!! A ** RARE** 1881-O Morgan Silver Dollar SGS CERTIFIED MS67 DMPL. Super addition to any gold or silver coin collection.. Simply gorgeous eye appeal and great detail. Full of shiny flowing luster. This coin trends for $17,000++++ in PCGS price guides in MS65. This is MS67 big dollars!! You Snooze you definitely lose on this beautiful Gold Coin!!! Buyer to pay $10 for shipping. International fees to be discussed with buyer before shipping. Please take a moment to review other items in my auction site.

VERY RARE THIS COIN IS WORTH $75,000.00 !!!!!!! YES SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1892 O SGS GRADED MS67 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR! What an opportunity! Up for auction, we have a BEAUTIFUL Graded Slabbed Morgan Silver Dollar! That's right! Up for your bidding pleasure, we have an 1892 O SGS Graded MS67 Slabbed Morgan Silver Dollar. Graded by Star Grading Services (SGS) This is a beautiful piece and not to be passed up by a collector. This coin has an estimated market value of $68,750 to $75,000 in MS67 (Sources include Redbook, Greysheet, Coin Values, etc.)

Zoins · April 17, 2007 10:36AM

Some people consider using the PCGS Price Guide misleading, even for PCGS graded coins.

I'm not sure what a grassroots effort can do. Somehow I think the ANA would have to want to get involved. Let's see if the new board decides it's an issue for the hobby.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 10:45AM

Right from Abombs listing, a 1878S Morgan. This isn't false, estimated market value of $7500, are you FUCHING kidding me

This coin has an estimated market value of $7,675 to $8,250 in MS67 (Sources include Redbook, Greysheet, Coin Values, etc.)

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 10:50AM

Look at his crap, I wanna puke. It's maybe a 3, looks cleaned anyway. $50 coin, another misled buyer.

The high bidder sells SGS, ohhh I get it, SGS is not only full of shat, but he or she shills em too.

sgs

Zoins · April 17, 2007 10:51AM

<< Right from Abombs listing, a 1878S Morgan. This isn't false, estimated market value of $7500, are you FUCHING kidding me

This coin has an estimated market value of $7,675 to $8,250 in MS67 (Sources include Redbook, Greysheet, Coin Values, etc.) >>

One of my first posts here was asking about made up prices from eBay sellers. At the time, the overwhelming response I got was that it's fine for sellers to use whatever numbers they want. Based on that, I just don't pay attention to what sellers list anymore and treat it as accepted practice.

It's also not like any of the coins are selling for anywhere near the seller's hyped values.

Myqqy · April 17, 2007 11:33AM

SGS is not only full of shat, but he or she shills em too.

Nice use of the term "shat"....

Shortgapbob · April 17, 2007 11:36AM

At least Ebay has started to tighten up on keyword spamming in the auction titles. Therefore, an SGS coin cannot have PCGS in the auction title. This is a step in the right direction, but Ebay still has a long way to go.

Numismanic · April 17, 2007 11:54AM

I find SGS's grading standards to be somewhat less than acceptable.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 11:55AM

<<At least Ebay has started to tighten up on keyword spamming in the auction titles. Therefore, an SGS coin cannot have PCGS in the auction title. This is a step in the right direction, but Ebay still has a long way to go.>>

True, how many steps will Feebay take though? Abomb is a Powerseller, all those fee's. Meg's gotta eat too.

Jcarney · April 17, 2007 12:04PM

<< 

<< 

<< <<He's a self-slabber, same as the guy who sued me.>>

So I can be sued for badmouthing a service? SGS is a bottom feeding organization. Will this get me sued?

It's my opinion! >>

Try Googling ACG lawsuit. Or better yet, search the archives here and for the rec.collecting.coins newsgroup. You are free to have any opinion you wish. You are also free to voice your opinion. Those who may not like your opinion are free to sue you. They may not win, hell, they may not even intend to win, but defending against a lawsuit in expensive and extremely annoying. So yes, you can be sued for badmouthing a service. >>

Time to expose the slime of the hobby. MS70 is not a standard grade. >>

Been there, done that. Didn't even get a T shirt. The legal bills sucked though.

morgansforever · April 17, 2007 12:07PM

<<Been there, done that. Didn't even get a T shirt. The legal bills sucked though. >>

That gives me an idea, a t-shirt badmouthing SGS. Any ideas?

airedale · April 17, 2007 12:31PM

Coxe · April 17, 2007 12:40PM

As long as you are aware of what you are buying for any slab and pay the appropriate price, its still a coin. I see plenty of AUs in "MS67" or so holders selling for AU prices. Do I think some, not to be mentioned to avoid litigation, tags are deceptive especially on eBay with PCGS price guide values quoted? I doubt I need to answer that nor does anyone else here.

This has been part of the hobby forever. TPGs came about, in part, to solve the problem of dealer overgrading and misauthentication. These guys are natural challenges to the solution , creating a fraction of the problem we had before. New folks will be wrangled in by them, cable TV hucksters, boiler room phone assaults, ... As regrettable as it all is, it still beats government regulation of our hobby. That would destroy it.

Whitby · April 17, 2007 12:43PM

Gee, are you referring to the 67 Kennedy half that was graded a PF-70 on E bay?????????

dtkk49a · April 17, 2007 12:43PM

I've read quite afew posts here of people cracking SGS slabs and doing alright. You can do well if you know how to pick out the good coins.

Whitby · April 17, 2007 12:48PM

<< I've read quite afew posts here of people cracking SGS slabs and doing alright. You can do well if you know how to pick out the good coins. >>

Yes, but I have an issue with a PF70 grade on 67 half when proofs were not made that year.

Kind of means they were well...gosh...WRONG.

airedale · April 17, 2007 12:49PM

Check this interesting story out!

Whitby · April 17, 2007 12:52PM

<< Check this interesting story out! >>

I reported the item.

I also reporetd the guy who was selling rainbow pennies by cooking them on his coffee burner.

I could not care less if the thing is a fraud or wrong, report it.

leothelyon · April 17, 2007 12:55PM

Imagine a beginner collector buying into SGS. What will he learn from his experience? Will he learn how to grade coins? Will he learn if he's spending his money wisely? I believe that it's only a matter of time and hopefully the lesson is learned quickly. It's very difficult to imagine anyone hanging onto the idea that everything grades MS70. That, in itself, should raise questions concerning the legitimacy of the grade the coin received.

Leo

Whitby · April 17, 2007 12:59PM

<< Imagine a beginner collector buying into SGS. What will he learn from his experience? Will he learn how to grade coins? Will he learn if he's spending his money wisely? I believe that it's only a matter of time and hopefully the lesson is learned quickly. It's very difficult to imagine anyone hanging onto the idea that everything grades MS70. That, in itself, should raise questions concerning the legitimacy of the grade the coin received.

Leo >>

I agree 100%

The whole idea of the "perfect" coin has begun to hack me off ......

flaminio · April 18, 2007 2:15AM

<< Check this interesting story out! >>

I'm glad others are taking up the fight against these folks. The fight needs to be fought. I'd join in, by like I've said, I don't feel like being dragged through the legal wringer again.

Zoins · April 18, 2007 2:17AM

<< It's very difficult to imagine anyone hanging onto the idea that everything grades MS70. >>

I would agree if there are F and G coins in SGS MS70 holders but there aren't.

It's somewhat similar to how some newbies view modern NCLT where virtually everything is 69/70. They don't realize that the vast majority of NCLT 68s and below don't get assigned numerical grades, making it look like everything grades 69/70.

foundinrolls · April 18, 2007 5:41AM

SGS bends or breaks the rules for listings on Ebay and has been called on it and reported to eBay hundreds of times. Nothing changes.

You don't have to bad mouth them yourself to educate people and that should avoid any lawsuits. You can send them to, (I hope this is OK) it is one of my sites http://www.askaboutcoins.com Link to Ask About Coins they can read my article about Grading the Graders, in that article, they can use the link to the PNG survey of graders and find the ones that PNG lists as unnaceptable.

There are scams on Ebay everywhere. Some Grading Services rate poorly like some of the other Almost Crummy Grading services that are out there. If you don't want to get sued, report the scams on Ebay, to Ebay every chance you get.

Thanks,
Bill

foundinrolls · April 18, 2007 5:52AM

<< Any fraud lawyers out there?

Is SGS using deceptive business practices?

SGS references current price guide values. Is this false advertising? (They don't cross, not even close, we all know that) >>

It is against Ebays rules with respect to selling coins.

airedale · April 18, 2007 6:03AM

<< 

<< Any fraud lawyers out there?

Is SGS using deceptive business practices?

SGS references current price guide values. Is this false advertising? (They don't cross, not even close, we all know that) >>

It is against Ebays rules with respect to selling coins. >>

Which Rule please?

Just a reminder of the interest in this subject!

foundinrolls · April 18, 2007 6:49AM

http://pages.ebay.com/coins_code_of_conduct/Ebay Code of Conduct Coins

• Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.

mrearlygold · April 18, 2007 7:44AM

There is an ass for every seat

morgansforever · April 18, 2007 9:22AM

<<Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.>>

So from the definition Abomb is violating Feebay policy, and because Abomb generates a large volume of fee's, Feebay allows this.

Feebay doesn't adhere to their own policy? WTF

Ohh I get it, the more business you conduct, in the form of fees, Feebay will simply turn their head.

Straight from Meg Whitman "Ebay isn't for everyone".

swest · April 18, 2007 9:34AM

It is a drag now because this guy is all over my Craig's list now. All are super high graded coins and it just kills me seeing this.

I am very disappointed in Ebay for continuing to allow this guy to advertise his auctions as he does.

Swest

foundinrolls · April 18, 2007 9:36AM

<< <<Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.>>

So from the definition Abomb is violating Feebay policy, and because Abomb generates a large volume of fee's, Feebay allows this.

Feebay doesn't adhere to their own policy? WTF

Ohh I get it, the more business you conduct, in the form of fees, Feebay will simply turn their head.

Straight from Meg Whitman "Ebay isn't for everyone". >>

BINGO! They don't even pull the stuff. The sellers also got smarter, now they use stock photos and they don't individually number the slabs. You can still tell they are stock photos by marks and lighting in the pictures.

morgansforever · April 18, 2007 9:47AM

So now it's official, this guy dew1111 sells SGS, and shills Abombs auctions.

I have seen this guy bidding on quite a few of Abombs auctions.

So it's not horrible enough that your buying crap, unaware buyers are being shilled.

Suck this Abomb, and you too dew1111

shilled SGS

SGS staining the hobby

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