Would PCGS ever have the guts to certify a pre-'65 proof coin as PR70?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 17, 2007 12:39PM

What say you? I don't have such a coin--or anything close for that matter, just curious

<< Have we already forgetten about the $39,000 PCGS PR70 1963 Lincoln albeit regraded as PR64 after PCGS bought it back. >>

Perhaps I should rephrase--Would PCGS ever have the guts to certify a PR70 pre-'65 proof as PR70 AGAIN?

dbldie55 · April 17, 2007 12:40PM

You mean something like a 1963 or 1964 Cent?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 17, 2007 12:42PM

<< You mean something like a 1963 or 1964 Cent? >>

yea

DJCoinz · April 17, 2007 12:44PM

They might. Anyone have a photo of one? (or an NGC PR70)

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 17, 2007 12:46PM

<< They might. Anyone have a photo of one? (or an NGC PR70) >>

NGC doesn't count

Coxe · April 17, 2007 12:46PM

Why should anything get a 70 grade? Should be a theoretical ideal only achievable by extraordinary means not employed by the US Mint. But then it comes down to numisemantics. PR70 is what some of us would figure for PR69.

ziggy29 · April 17, 2007 12:48PM

<< NGC doesn't count >>

HEY, KOOL-AID!!!!!!!

CaptHenway · April 17, 2007 12:53PM

Back about 1980, New England Rare Coin Galleries submitted a Proof Saint that was truly and literally absolutely flawless. We certified it as a Proof-70/70 and returned it. A marvelous coin.

A few months later, I saw it in one of their auctions as a Proof-69, with no mention made of the certificate. One of their senior people was in my Summer Seminar grading class that year, so I asked him why they only called it a Proof-69, when we had certified it as a Proof-70? He said that they were afraid that if they called it a Proof-70 nobody would believe them, so they ditched the certificate and sold it as a 69.

TD

Shamika · April 17, 2007 1:03PM

Have we already forgetten about the $39,000 PCGS PR70 1963 Lincoln albeit regraded as PR64 after PCGS bought it back.

MORGANHUNTER2 · April 17, 2007 1:05PM

Let's think of reality for one moment in time......

Is a coin made by our U.S. MINT truly PERFECT????????

If man made it, GOD is being a little forgiving in the grading arena....

DJCoinz · April 17, 2007 1:18PM

<< NGC doesn't count >>

Mind if I ask why not?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 17, 2007 1:45PM

<< Have we already forgetten about the $39,000 PCGS PR70 1963 Lincoln albeit regraded as PR64 after PCGS bought it back. >>

Perhaps I should rephrase--Would PCGS ever have the guts to certify a PR70 pre-'65 proof as PR70 AGAIN?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 17, 2007 1:46PM

<< 

<< NGC doesn't count >>

Mind if I ask why not? >>

NGC has lost a lot of respect lately. People don't really hold their Proof or Mordern coin grades in anything above MS69 or PR69 in high regard. In the world of today, PCGS is superior

pharmer · April 17, 2007 1:50PM

<< numisemantics >>

Hey laserart! Coxe came up with a word of the day, and it's a doozy! And coin related!

Well done, Coxe.

BobaFett72 · April 17, 2007 1:52PM

numisemantics.

nice!

almost as good as trustigious

Coxe · April 17, 2007 1:53PM

<< 

<< 

<< NGC doesn't count >>

Mind if I ask why not? >>

NGC has lost a lot of respect lately. People don't really hold their Proof or Mordern coin grades in anything above MS69 or PR69 in high regard. In the world of today, PCGS is superior >>

Hmm. If there is indeed an ideal PR70, at least according to some theoretical PCGS standards, would you be implying that it is an impossibility or at least highly unlikely that such a coin could be submitted to NGC (and get a coveted 70 grade there)? Perhaps PCGS is more consistent and NGC falters in the extreme grading of moderns. I honestly don't know and personally think people who buy into 70 grade over 69 grade are setting themselves up for an eventual huge disappointment. But in the end, the coin is the coin is the coin. Anyone's 69 or 70 is going to matter for a while but not forever.

basestealer · April 17, 2007 2:06PM

If 70 is on the scale, 70 should be attainable. There is a silly human notion that extremes to the scales should never be achieved, which is why on surveys with 1 to 5 scales people avoid answering 1 and 5. Sad, but erroneous. NGC is consistant and I like them, if I had to choose between PCGS and NGC, I go with NGC. I don't care about how "tough" a service is--tough is not necessarily accurate. PCGS' "guarantee" renders them useless with silver eagles and other coins they refuse to assign accurate grades for because of what might happen "down the road", so to avoid a challenge they undergrade. And people pay more for these undergraded coins. I thought the point of third party grading services was for ACCURATE grades, at least that's the way it was pitched to collectors in the late 80's when they didn't have a leg to stand on. Now they've got you all suckered in, and they make the rules.

FLBuffaloHunter · April 17, 2007 2:15PM

Apparently they have.-

ElmerFusterpuck · April 17, 2007 2:15PM

So a PCGS 70 is an NGC 72 or 73? I get it now...

DJCoinz · April 17, 2007 2:42PM

<< 

<< 

<< NGC doesn't count >>

Mind if I ask why not? >>

NGC has lost a lot of respect lately. People don't really hold their Proof or Mordern coin grades in anything above MS69 or PR69 in high regard. In the world of today, PCGS is superior >>

I'm going to have to disagree with that statement.

DJCoinz · April 17, 2007 2:44PM

That might go for ICG, but not NGC.

FLBuffaloHunter · April 17, 2007 2:48PM

<< If 70 is on the scale, 70 should be attainable. There is a silly human notion that extremes to the scales should never be achieved, which is why on surveys with 1 to 5 scales people avoid answering 1 and 5. Sad, but erroneous. NGC is consistant and I like them, if I had to choose between PCGS and NGC, I go with NGC. I don't care about how "tough" a service is--tough is not necessarily accurate. PCGS' "guarantee" renders them useless with silver eagles and other coins they refuse to assign accurate grades for because of what might happen "down the road", so to avoid a challenge they undergrade. And people pay more for these undergraded coins. I thought the point of third party grading services was for ACCURATE grades, at least that's the way it was pitched to collectors in the late 80's when they didn't have a leg to stand on. Now they've got you all suckered in, and they make the rules. >>

You could also use that analogy to your advantage by crossing over coins PCGS won't grade in a 70 that are technically 70's.

ModernCrapNut · April 17, 2007 3:18PM

<< Apparently they have.-

>>

And suprise! I looked at the NGC census for 64 Proof and the total population is about the same, but 0 in 70.....hmmmmmmmmm.

Would PCGS ever have the guts to certify a pre-'65 proof coin as PR70?

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