Would you buy a non-slabbed gold coin from Stack's?

antonyfire · April 17, 2007 2:09AM

I've been watching a couple of gold coins in Stack's upcoming auction. Neither of them are slabbed. I noticed in their
"terms" that they don't make statements as to whether a coin has been cleaned or not. If I bought either
I'd want it to be slabbed by PCGS or NGC.

I'm not sure whether to bid or not. The current bid prices look...very good....and I'm thinking of low-balling them.

So...I think of the following possiblities:

1) The coin will slab and is a good representative and I'm going to get a great deal because other bidders have overlooked
this gem.... (yeah right)

2) The coin has a "problem" and that is why the bids are low..the experts/dealers know this and are staying away..so
if I bid my "low ball" bid I'll win...and be sorry later.

3) The coin is a good representative and the bidding price will be above my low-ball bid anyway.

#1 is unlikely because anytime I've thought I've gotten a REALLY good deal in coins I've found out later this was not the case,
I don't have a representative there looking at the coins for me..etc..etc..

#2 seems a strong possiblity....makes me wonder why it isn't slabbed already.

Any comments or advice??

thanks
af

RYK · April 17, 2007 2:09AM

NO!

ziggy29 · April 17, 2007 2:11AM

At the right price I'd buy just about any coin. You want to sell it to me for melt? Sure.

tradedollarnut · April 17, 2007 2:20AM

Yes, if I had an expert representative view and evaluate the coin for me prior to the auction. I have bought several very expensive raw silver coins over the years from Stacks. In each case, they were from old time collections and were the finest available of the date. Each time, my representative previewed the coins and in the end they graded out at the preauction evaluation grade. For instance, this coin was purchased raw from the LKRudolf sale [ex: James A Stack]:

Longacre · April 17, 2007 2:25AM

I would have a trusted dealer look at any raw coin in an auction before I bought it. That applies to Stack's, Heritage, Superior, Goldbergs, or Joe's Coin and Confectionary.

messydesk · April 17, 2007 2:54AM

Unless the return policy gives you enough time to send the coin for encapsulation, I wouldn't touch it without first-hand viewing by a Trusted Expert™. Bidding sight-unseen on a coin that should be slabbed is like saying, "If I try to shoot myself in the foot, I wonder if I'll miss."

ziggy29 · April 17, 2007 3:01AM

<< Unless the return policy gives you enough time to send the coin for encapsulation, I wouldn't touch it without first-hand viewing by a Trusted Expert™. Bidding sight-unseen on a coin that should be slabbed is like saying, "If I try to shoot myself in the foot, I wonder if I'll miss." >>

What's sad about all this is that plenty of coins that most collectors would have been just fine with 20-30 years ago are now viewed as junk because they might not slab.

Writersblock · April 17, 2007 3:13AM

I like the fact that Stacks still offers raw coins and hasn't surcomed to the "every coin must be slabbed" mantra of the market. But a picture, no matter how good it is, can only be used to determine whether or not the coin deserves a closer look, either in person or by a trusted personal representative. If physical examination is not possible then you have a problem. Since auction sales for all practical purposes are "as is" sales, you can't afford to go all out for fear of being stuck with a very expensive dog. But being very conservative will mean either that you have no real chance of getting it, or that it is going to be worth no more than your very conservative bid and if you are seeking high end material your still not going to be happy.

So you really MUST either view the coins yourself, or have a representive do so.

ColonialCoinUnion · April 17, 2007 3:17AM

An expert grader (which could be you, if you are qualified) needs to view the coin in person before the sale.

Stack's auctions (like other auctions) are filled with great coins and not so great coins.

If you bid sight unseen, you're very likely to win the coin only if it is Sub-Par™.

RYK · April 17, 2007 3:23AM

If you bid sight unseen, your very likely to win the coin only if it is Sub-Par™.

Well said. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

dthigpen · April 17, 2007 3:24AM

Sight Unseen? Never. I've purchased non-slabbed gold from them sight-seen very happily in the past though.

Shamika · April 17, 2007 3:25AM

I agree with most everyone else. Pay an expert to have the coin evaluated before hand. The cost is typically 5% of the hammer price and usually only if you win the coin.

DeusExMachina · April 17, 2007 3:36AM

<< I would have a trusted dealer look at any raw coin in an auction before I bought it. That applies to Stack's, Heritage, Superior, Goldbergs, or Joe's Coin and Confectionary. >>

I've had few problems buying raw gold with Joe's Coin and Confectionary.

BigE · April 17, 2007 3:55AM

Watch out for the guy at Joes Coin, he has sticky fingers-------------------------BigE

BigE · April 17, 2007 4:01AM

I bought 2 coins recently at Stacks sight unseen-just from their picture. One was a Lafayette dollar for 900.00 they had listed as a 62--it bagged at pcgs. The other was a Mckinley dollar they had as a 63 for 700.00----------it came back 64 with the ANS collection pedigree on the label(thanks pcgs). So I say its a crapshoot

---------------BigE

antonyfire · April 17, 2007 4:14AM

Thanks for all the responses. They were very helpful.

I'll make sure I'm reading Doug Winter's New Orleans Gold book tonight and
staying away from the computer...."buy...it..rip it....bid...NO!...buy it...bid..bid..NO!"...

ColonialCoinUnion · April 17, 2007 4:15AM

<< I bought 2 coins recently at Stacks sight unseen-just from their picture. One was a Lafayette dollar for 900.00 they had listed as a 62--it bagged at pcgs. The other was a Mckinley dollar they had as a 63 for 700.00----------it came back 64 with the ANS collection pedigree on the label(thanks pcgs). So I say its a crapshoot

---------------BigE >>

Yes!

RYK · April 17, 2007 4:21AM

<< Thanks for all the responses. They were very helpful.

I'll make sure I'm reading Doug Winter's New Orleans Gold book tonight and
staying away from the computer...."buy...it..rip it....bid...NO!...buy it...bid..bid..NO!"...

>>

It is very tempting, and I empathize with you. I need to reburn myself once a year or so to remember why I should not buy sight-unseen from auctions...like I did in the linked thread.

If you buy all your coins sight unseen from Stack's (or other) auctions, more likely than not you will end up with a collection that no one will want to buy sight-seen in the future.

tightbudget · April 17, 2007 7:10AM

Yes. I for one have.

antonyfire · April 17, 2007 7:35AM

<< Real simple-dosn't matter if it Stacks or anywhere-always look at any raw coin you are buying first! If you can't hire a pro.

Hopefully tonight we are buying some raw ones!!!!!

But beware, the services are not very freindly anymore... >>

Yes..that sounds like the very sound advice I've been receiving.

BTW..I'm not sure what you mean by "the services are not very friendly anymore"?

Also..you don't want to check out a 1855-C for me do you?

For a forum buddy?

regards,
af

RYK · April 17, 2007 8:03AM

Antonyfire,

It's time to turn on your PM function.

antonyfire · April 17, 2007 8:11AM

<< Antonyfire,

It's time to turn on your PM function.

>>

Done

roadrunner · April 17, 2007 10:18AM

Total crapshoot. For every one you win at a good price, I suspect you'll lose on several. In the end, you're better buying gold in slabs.
Considering that the undergraded or problem free gold will sell to dealers who previewed the lots, you'll end up with the overgraded stuff or problem pieces.....guaranteed. Even in the sales I previewed hundreds of raw gold coins, it seemed that between the rose colored glasses on the floor, and pie-in-the-sky bids from the book, you could hardly compete. Anything looking undergraded sold for essentially next grade money.

For what it's worth I've tried the game by bidding on raw gold via photos. The few lots I won were always lower end and fully priced. I could have done better buying slabs. You cannot go by the auction descriptions nor just the photos. What looks good can be off and what looks iffy can be an undergrade.

Bottom line is you can bid on raw gold at Stacks or any other place and do ok. But you have to preview the lots and know your stuff cold. And even then you might only get a few lots out of a hundred you previewed. And chances are you got those because you missed something most everyone else didn't.

roadrunner

dorkkarl · April 17, 2007 10:50PM

<< I've been watching a couple of gold coins in Stack's upcoming auction. Neither of them are slabbed. I noticed in their
"terms" that they don't make statements as to whether a coin has been cleaned or not. If I bought either
I'd want it to be slabbed by PCGS or NGC. >>

if you want it in a piece of pla$tic, BUY it in a piece of pla$tic.

stop trying to outsmart the system

K S

Julian · April 18, 2007 1:06AM

I will purchase any coin from anyone if I can examine it. It has nothing to do with Stack's, Heritage, Superior, Jim's Pawn Shop, or any customer that comes in.

All coins have value.

If the question is would I purchase a coin at non-slabbed coin at auction, the answer is the same as whether I would purchase a slabbed coin at auction. I will only purchase coins that have been examined by someone who knows exactly what I am looking for.

The only exception to the above is that I would purchase any genuine numismatic item without examination, if the condition was not critical to my decision. This probably only applies to an extremely rare item, just 2 or 3 known.

Would you buy a non-slabbed gold coin from Stack's?

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