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Numismatic talk question.
SkyMan
Posts: 9,598 ✭✭✭✭✭
This being National Numismatic Week coming up, I'm going to be giving a brief talk to 7-8th graders on numismatics. I'll try to keep it simple, mainly passing around coins and talking about the basics of numismatics, but I plan on explaining to them that dealing with coins/money there are wildly different fields you can look at; art, chemistry, economics, history, politics etc. Kids at that age definitely enjoy slightly gruesome humor, and I was going to include the story of the English King (one of the Henrys?) who castrated one of the minters who had a royal patent to mint coins, but who kept underweighting the coins. Can anyone please give me any specifics on this?
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Other stories might be about the no cents nickel and how a deaf mute was able to pass them as gold pieces. About gun money and the ruler that was silly enough to melt their guns in time of war to make coins to pay the troops. About chopmarks and how some merchants put their mark on coins to confirm they were good, and how ironic it is that so many modern counterfeits now come from that same region. About pieces of eight and how pirates often holed them and wore them around their neck to avoid theft. There are a thousand more.
That is a cool thing for you to do!
They are all aware of the state quarters, maybe explain to them how that has helped increase prices for other rare coins as state quarter collectors moved into other areas of the field.
<< <i>IOther stories might be about the no cents nickel and how a deaf mute was able to pass them as gold pieces. >>
Hasn't the whole Josh Tatum tale, fascinating as it may be, been pretty well determined to be an urban legend, with no factual basis.
<< <i>Hasn't the whole Josh Tatum tale, fascinating as it may be, been pretty well determined to be an urban legend, with no factual basis. >>
I've never heard it definitively refuted, and I think there might have been a real Josh Tatum.
But yes, I am sure most of the tale is highly embellished, to say the least.
But so what. That is what makes a good story, sometimes. It doesn't all have to be cold, hard facts. You could tell the tale and then end by saying, "or so the story goes", indicating that you ain't preachin' the gospel, just tellin' a good yarn.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I won't deny that some people may hve passed gilded 83 NC nickels as half eagles, and it is even possible that maybe one of them was a deaf mute, but it doesn't seem that he was ever caught and tried. But the final part of the story that it was where the expression "just joshing you" came from can be safely laid to rest since the use of the term josh meaning to joke with or trick predates the 83 NC by close to fifty years.
Skyman, I think this is what you are looking for.
Abuses of the coinage were always rife, but hit epidemic proportions around the reign of Henry I. Despite the harshest laws coins were clipped, shaved and shaken in bags [to produce silver dust]. Some of the worst abuses centered on the moneyers themselves. Underweight coins were produced and debased silver was commonly substituted, with the excess skimmed off the top and into the moneyers pocket. This was in fact treason of a kind. The common punishment for this offence was amputation of the right hand. Henry I [1100-1135], in responce to the public outcry concerning the state of his coinage [people were bending and breaking the pennies to see if they were genuine or plated forgeries], called an assize of moneyers at Christmas 1124 in Winchester. All 150 moneyers were called to account. All but three honest men were found guilty. 94 were mutilated according to law, each losing their right hand and one testicle. The rest paid huge fines to escape this punishment, although many were banished. The abuses of course did not stop.
U.S. Type Set
You'll spark their interest in you mention them:
.5 cent
1 cent large
1 cent small
2 cent
3 cent n/s
half dime
nickel
dime
20-cent
quarter
half
...and then...
gold dollar
silver dollar
large CU
small CU
"golden"
$2.5
$3
Stella
$5
$10
$20
$50
and even the platinum $100
It's even cooler if you take a $.02 or a $.03 cent coin in with you!
--Severian the Lame
Gives a whole new perspective on the Twelve Nights of Christmas...
Found in "Numisma, An Occasional Numismatic Magazine , Vol 8 March 1964."
A SEVERE PUNISHMENT
By R M Grieg
During the reign of Henry I the quality of the English coinage deteriorated to such an extent that hardship was caused to the general population.
Coins were issued, from many mints, of light weight or were struck from metal that was not up to the required standard of 11oz 2dwt of fine silver to 18dwt of alloy. These fraudulent practices forced the king to take punitive action against the moneyers.
In the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, under the years 1124 and 1125, occur the following passages, which have been translated by Thorpe:
1124: That (the high price of food etc) was because there was little corn, and that the penny was so bad, that the man who had at market a pound could by no means buy therewith twelve penny-worths
1125: In the year, before Christmas, King Henry sent from Normandy to England, and commanded that all the moneyers that were in England should be deprived of their members, that was the right hand of each, and their testicles beneath. That was because a man who had a pound could not buy for a penny at a market (sic). And the Bishop Roger of Salsbury sent all over England, and commanded them all that they should come to Winchester at Christmas. When they came Thitherthey were taken one by one, and each deprived of the right hand and the testicles beneath. All of this was done within twelve nights, and that was all with great justice, because they had for-done all the land with their great quantity of false money which they had bought.
In the Margum Annals the number of moneyers mutilated is given as ninety four and according to the Winton Annals all the moneyers of England were mutilated except three of Winchester.
There is evidence to suggest that for the remiander of the reign of Henry I the standard of coinage was considerably improved.
<< <i>I can't offer more on the story, however, in this day and age, I would be hesistant to tell a story about castration in a school room. If one kid misunderstands and tells their parents some confused version of the story, it could be trouble. I do not think it is worth the risk when there are so many other stories to tell. If you do insist, have the teacher(s) approve of your language and presentation before hand.
Other stories might be about the no cents nickel and how a deaf mute was able to pass them as gold pieces. About gun money and the ruler that was silly enough to melt their guns in time of war to make coins to pay the troops. About chopmarks and how some merchants put their mark on coins to confirm they were good, and how ironic it is that so many modern counterfeits now come from that same region. About pieces of eight and how pirates often holed them and wore them around their neck to avoid theft. There are a thousand more. >>
I would tend to agree with this to a large degree..... If you would insist upon THIS story, I would run it by the instructor first for approval.....