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What to look for if a gold coin is fake

AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,375 ✭✭✭✭
I'm talking about the $5, $10, $20 Libs, what does one have to look for to tell they are fake or authentic?

Advice would be greatly appreciated!

AJ
All coins kept in bank vaults.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!

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    SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ttt

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

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    FjordFjord Posts: 185 ✭✭
    Can you weigh the coin? Weight is often hard to get correct in a fake.
    Fjord
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    DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭✭
    If you're looking for a reference like the one pictured below, try Bill Fivaz's United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide. (Full description here.)

    image

    image
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    ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    shameless plug....... but if you are not that familiar then try a fisch detector which we sell



    fake gold detector





    Fake gold coins don't look like fake gold coins. They look like real gold coins. Dealers, jewelers, bankers and investors have all been fooled.

    You need to know that what you buy is gold. Not someone telling you it is gold. Because if it turns out to be fool's gold, it is your hard earned cash that is out the window. Even if you have a "guarantee" that the gold is genuine.... Consider this...

    You buy a TV or a microwave. It breaks while under warranty. You take it back to the store. It will be fixed. For free. No arguments. You bought it there - the serial number makes it easy to prove - and you have the warranty.

    But how could you prove where you bought your gold? There are no serial numbers on gold coins...

    Say you buy a gold coin from XYZ Gold Corporation. Some time later (6 days or months or years.. it doesn't matter) you decide to sell. The would-be buyer says "This is a fake."

    You rush over to XYZ Gold Corporation - if they are still in business - and tell them the bad news: "Hey". you say, "this coin you sold me 6 days, months, years ago is a fake!" "With any coins, it's buyer beware"
    - U.S. Secret Service official, 1982



    What will XYZ Gold Corporation say? "Gee whiz, we're sorry. Here take this coin." Don't count on it. Put yourself in their shoes. How do they know you haven't switched coins?

    Even if you have a receipt it is not much help. As Changing Times wrote "A receipt is not a guarantee of authenticity...because coins are not individually identifiable."

    Maybe XYZ Gold Corporation consider themselves experts and are offended by your claim (and feel their business is threatened): "Listen , buddy, we've been in business for years. We are experts. We don't sell fakes. Any more from you about this and you'll hear from our lawyers."

    Like it or not, you are totally dependent on them to right their mistake. If they refuse, your only option will be to sue them in court.
    And it will be difficult to win. After all, you are going to have to prove that the dealer sold you that fake.
    "Normal investors don't stand a chance against a skilled counterfeiter unless forewarned and forearmed."
    - Silver & Gold Report, 1984



    This is the stuff that nightmares are made of. But you can protect yourself from fake gold.

    .
    YOU CAN BECOME YOUR OWN GOLD EXPERT

    How? With the Fisch Fake Coin Identification Gauge - an award winning, precision made instrument that detects common metal fakes. In seconds. Any place. Any time.

    The Fisch is used by investors and dealers in over 40 countries around the world. It can take the risk out of buying gold coins for you, too.

    .
    THE MODERN FAKE IS DANGEROUS

    Visually identical to a genuine coin, the modern fake could wreck your investment portfolio. Precious metals dealers, coin dealers, jewelers and bankers have all been fooled by fakes. But they don't like to talk about them... " Faking gold coins has long been a profitable business, especially in Italy and Beirut, so that today there are millions of fake coins in circulation."
    - Timothy Green in How to Buy Gold, 1975



    Silver & Gold Report calls fakes "The Best Kept Secret of the Bullion Industry."

    Daniel Kehrer says in his best-selling book The Cautious Investor's Guide to Profits in Precious Metals: ".... Precious metals dealers are none too anxious to admit it, but counterfeit coins are a problem."

    Kehrer adds that "recognising the problem (of fakes), and learning how to spot (them) has become standard 'training' for investors today."

    How does Silver & Gold Report and Kehrer recommend investors protect themselves against fakes?

    By using the Fisch Fake Coin Identification Gauge.

    THE EXPERTS CHOOSE THE Fisch
    While dealers don't like to talk about fakes, they don't want to be caught either. When it comes to protection, they choose the Fisch.
    "Counterfeiters are sophisticated and produce their coins from the presses every bit as good as their counterparts at the various American Mints."
    - David L. Ganz in The World of Coins, 1980



    The biggest bullion dealers, banks and mints in the world have bought the Fisch

    Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    color is the easiest way to tell- once you know what to look for you can spot most from a few feet away. Luster- is just not quite correct. Die crack like lines usually on the outer area's of the coin by denticles. Most good fakes seem to have the weight with-in tolerances and are made from the right gold content.
    I think you need to handle a few in person to understand things better though. I thought I could spot them pretty good and still bought a fake $2-1/2 indian sight seen. Once I figured it out I was kind of embarrased that I overlooked the obvious.
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    GandyjaiGandyjai Posts: 1,380 ✭✭
    Take a strong magnet and hold it to it....Speaker magnets work well.
    I've found some fake ones have a slight magnetic attraction to them.
    Brian

    I LOVE image TALON HEAD, PEG LEG & ERROR IKES! image
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    here's a $5v indian counterfiet.
    image
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    AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,375 ✭✭✭✭
    Darktone: thats a damn nice looking fake! I honestly wouldnt be able to tell the difference.
    Now let me ask, are real gold coins magnetic at all?

    The coins I am being offered, I have many that are slabbed, but none that are raw. So weight would be the best thing to look at I gander?

    AJ
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Darktone: thats a damn nice looking fake! I honestly wouldnt be able to tell the difference.
    Now let me ask, are real gold coins magnetic at all?

    The coins I am being offered, I have many that are slabbed, but none that are raw. So weight would be the best thing to look at I gander?

    AJ >>



    No, gold is not magnetic. But I got a nice brass magnet if you are interestedimage. Just kidding. If you are buying PCGS/NGC/ANACS slabbed coins you should be pretty darn safe. Also if the coin weighs with-in specs you should be pretty safe paying gold bullion price for it. But if you see a coin like that $5 indian raw you gotta ask yourself why ain't it slabbed?
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,540 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Fisch detector won't help with most counterfeit numismatic gold since they are being produced with the proper weight and fineness of gold.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Perry Hall you are incorrect about your statement above ... the fisch detector does work...... tens of thousands were sold to banks, dealers etc... and thousands of fakes were pulled off the market because of the device....
    Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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    mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Here's what you should look for...Try this one]

    Oh yeah...you should be reading
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,540 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Perry Hall you are incorrect about your statement above ... the fisch detector does work...... tens of thousands were sold to banks, dealers etc... and thousands of fakes were pulled off the market because of the device.... >>



    Notice I said counterfeit numismatic gold coins which have been counterfeited with the proper weight and finess of gold for many years now. The fisch detector checks the weight using a balance beam principle and measures the diameter. I stand by what I said. Most counterfeit numismatic gold coins would not be detected since they are made with the proper gold finess, weight, and dimensions. The fisch detector is usefull for detecting counterfeit kruger rands, maple leafs, and other bullion coins where the counterfeiter makes his profit by skimping on the gold content.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,167 ✭✭✭✭
    This is why I stick with slabbed gold.....

    Risk is to high to screw around
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
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    VeepVeep Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭✭
    Per JP Martin on the ANA Counterfeit Detection Video, about 70% of counterfeit Indian $2 1/2 and $5 have tooling marks on the back of the Indian's neck.
    "Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"
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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 25,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My two bits: "Detecting counterfeit gold coins, Book 2" by "Lonesome John" (John Devine). Easy to use and
    carry with. Has great examples of the most often counterfeit old gold. Does not do mondern like Krugerands and Maple Leafs.
    Can't be too careful for sure.
    bob
    That 1908 has the obverse design too close to the rim. And remember that even fake gold has value it's just not numismatic.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    << <i>If you're looking for a reference like the one pictured below, try Bill Fivaz's United States Gold Counterfeit Detection Guide. (Full description here.)

    image

    image >>




    I agree. I would begin here and purchase only NGC/PCGS/ANACS certified in the mean time.

    I have seen some fantastic counterfeit coins and with the quarter eagle/half eagle Indian series, detection can be difficult.
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    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,671 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd look to see if it's in a reputable 3rd party slab.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,540 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I would begin here and purchase only NGC/PCGS/ANACS certified in the mean time. >>



    I would add ICG to that list.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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    My Pratt-St Gaudens type set so far is only PCGS and NGC. I am not an expert on gold by any stretch, so I figured I'd leave it up to the experts at both grading services. I spot can most Morgan fakes a mile away, but gold is a whole other level.
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Per JP Martin on the ANA Counterfeit Detection Video, about 70% of counterfeit Indian $2 1/2 and $5 have tooling marks on the back of the Indian's neck. >>



    The only problem with this is that the people that don't have the expertise are not able to tell what is tooling and what is die polishing.

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