What is a error coin?

silverpop · April 9, 2007 2:57PM

Someone told me that a die crack coin isn't a error coin, i had always thought die crack coins were errors

Am i wrong to think this or not

could someone please clear this little question up so i can understand better the term error coin and what type of errors are considered offically errors and which ones aren't

hookooekoo · April 9, 2007 3:12PM

I would consider a die crack to be an error coin. But the problem is that they are so common that they don't give a coin any premium unless there is something special about the locaton of the crack (like the pissing minunte man on the MA quarter or "spitting" horse on the DE quarter).

Otherwise, my best stab as a definition of an error coin is "A coin that has been released into circulation by the U.S. Mint that the Mint's quality control shouldn't have allow to be released."

silverpop · April 9, 2007 3:18PM

Thanks for the input

Anyone else want to give their input on this question?

DesertRat · April 9, 2007 3:25PM

I would say similar. That an error coin is a coin that was indeed struck in "error". A die crack, while not a desired result in the minting process was obviously a common occurance and therefore one could say that they were an accepted outcome of the process or within normal quality control guidelines for the period.

Doubles, clips, blank planchets, partials etc.. were not an accepted outcome and therefore considered to be an error.

silverpop · April 9, 2007 3:28PM

Thanks for your input DR

Anyone else want to add their input on this subject?

rec78 · April 9, 2007 3:30PM

Also include mules, wrong metals or off specs,coins struck on wrong planchets,etc. . I do not consider die cracks to be error though.

AskRaq · April 9, 2007 3:42PM

How about die clashes? **My Personal Favorite**

silverpop · April 9, 2007 3:47PM

Ok

If die cracked coins aren't errors what are they excatly then?

AskRaq · April 9, 2007 3:48PM

BooBoo's....??

silverpop · April 9, 2007 4:05PM

All i'm doing is getting both sides of the error coin question which is a great help to me cause then i can see where some people stand on this and why

Seriously what is a die cracked coin called if not called a error coin?

AskRaq · April 9, 2007 4:10PM

I'm really trying here..... But, um... no one else is helping!!!!!!

(Me, I think they are errors, but common errors... others??? Hmmm...) So, I'll bump ya again and see if you get a bite!!

Type2 · April 9, 2007 4:10PM

<< How about die clashes? **My Personal Favorite** >>

I like this one

silverpop · April 9, 2007 4:14PM

Nice error coin Type2

Here is the coin in question my die cracked 1921 morgan

Type2 · April 9, 2007 4:20PM

you can look at this link it has all the vam you need. http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/ and thank you.

LALASD4 · April 9, 2007 4:42PM

Nice Die Clashed Nickel!

And I think die cracks, die breaks, cuds, retained cud are errors.

OffCenter · April 9, 2007 4:56PM

<< Ok

If die cracked coins aren't errors what are they excatly then? >>

They are errors but common enough not to bring much of a premium unless hyped up like the "speared bison" .....

pb2y · April 9, 2007 5:25PM

V

pb2y · April 9, 2007 5:33PM

<<What is an error coin?>>

An unintended mistake. No error coin is a type coin.

LINK

RichErrors · April 11, 2007 1:13AM

FYI
Just a liitle info
Employees at the US Mint actually call "die clashes",
die "kissing". When the 2 dies just barely touch each other leaving the oppisite dies impression, "Kissing"

In the Error Hobby we call the error "Clashing"

You can tell I have too much time on my hands today! Oh well

Thanx
Rich Schemmer
Rich Schemmer Error Coins
http://WWW.RichErrors.com/store.php

AskRaq · April 11, 2007 1:47AM

Maybe someone who is well read in the area of minting errors could help the OP (and the rest of us who like errors, but don't know everything about every type), by Posting a general list of common and rare erros in order of (1) rarity and/or (2) added value.

lasvegasteddy · April 11, 2007 7:06AM

if i may chime in here too with a kennedy half dollar i have.
it has die cracks on the obverse but the reverse has a crack.the crack is runs in length from tail feathers extending out through the leaves and claw on one side.
so it is noteworthy to me reguardless of value.
would it qualify under mint error defective planchet for the reverse?

foundinrolls · April 11, 2007 9:47AM

Hi

There is a difference between the terms errors and varieties. Varieties such as doubled dies, although they may result from an error in the manufacturing process of hubs or dies are usually not classified as errors.

The general defenition and Mr. Weinberg may want to add or take away from this is that an error is the result of a mishap in the minting process and are in fact unique as a coin but not necessarily unique as an error type. Coins struck on incomplete planchets for example fall into the category labeled as "incomplete planchets" but each coin is technically unique although it may be similar to others.

Errors would include things like multiple struck coins, capped die errors, incomplete planchet errors, coins struck on wrong planchets, broadstrikes, off-center strikes and any combination of striking problems.

Varieties are usually considered as coins that can be traced to particular dies or combinations of dies. So for example, every 1972 Doubled Die Obverse Lincoln Cent FS#1c -033.3 (Fivaz and Stanton) or Breen#2265 was struck with the same obverse die. In this case, the same reverse die was used as well and a small raised line above the D in UNITED on the reverse is used as a diagnostic marker on this particular variety. Not taking the die states into consideration, Each one of these coins theoretically has identical characteristics as other coins struck from the same dies. Coins struck by Doubled, Tripled, Quadrupled etc. dies are varieties.

There are some fuzzy areas. Die breaks can be used to attribute varieties and we see that all the time with respect to early copper coins and VAMS. A coin struck by a broken die can also be considered an error. What we refer to as CUDS (die breaks at the rim) are usually considered errors although they can sometimes be a marker used to attribute a variety.

How's that Fred? Clear as Mud, Right?

Have Fun,
Bill

AskRaq · April 11, 2007 9:54AM

Bill, I would have to say that you have been most helpful.

Okay, go on.....

coindeuce · April 11, 2007 10:39AM

<< Ok

If die cracked coins aren't errors what are they excatly then? >>

They're merely coins struck from a stage in the working life of a die that has sustained cracks as a result of metal fatigue. The die cracks are a normal, expected consequence of the physics of metallurgy, the stress induced by the extreme pressures used to strike coins. They are not error coins.

silverpop · April 11, 2007 10:56AM

Well if that was the case that die cracks aren't errors

In my Blackbook of US coin prices for 2003 and 2004 editions # 41 & 42 , page 71 in both books have this listed as a die error

please explain why these books and many dealers that i've talked to consider my coin an error coin?

foundinrolls · April 12, 2007 6:37AM

Hi,

There are older books out there, The one that comes to mind was an Error book by Frank Spadone. In that book, die breaks were considered errors. Some of the older concepts hang on and since some things like die breaks are classified in several ways, they end up being called errors. It is fair to say that some people will call a coin with a die break the result of an error in the manufacturing process.

It depends on who you talk to. A VAM specialist or a person used to attributing old coppers would often use die breaks and even CUDS as die markers to attribute a die marriage or a variety. Die breaks are very much used to attribute varieties where sheild nickels are concerned.

On modern coins, die breaks are fairly common and are considered the result of a worn die being used to strike a coin. Small raised lines are not uncommon and don't command a premium (Except, it seems on Ebay) . A modern coin with a thick raised line that was the result of being struck by a die that is severely broken might cross the line and be called an error.

It is an arbitrary use of the word in some cases.

Have Fun,
Bill

silverpop · April 12, 2007 6:46AM

Thanks for all the info that people have given on this issue

And thanks for taking the time to respond to my question

RichieURich · April 12, 2007 6:53AM

I think of an error coin as a unique one-of-a-kind coin, while I think of a variety as every coin that comes off of that die pair has the same feature. So a blank planchet would be an error coin, a wrong planchet would be an error coin, a Washington dollar with no edge lettering would be an error coin, but a 1955 doubled die cent would be a variety and a coin with a die crack or cud would be a die state (i.e. "late die state"). Maybe this helps.

Edit to add: some coins I have bought have been errors, but not error coins.

silverpop · April 12, 2007 6:56AM

Yes it does help me a lot to learn what info others have on this issue

and to see what their opinions are on this subject

Thanks once again for taking the time to respond to my question

Petescorner · April 12, 2007 7:06AM

Good subject. Thanks for asking the question!

foundinrolls · April 12, 2007 7:56AM

Great question actually...

jmski52 · April 12, 2007 11:22AM

I would consider a die crack to be a die state, rather than an error.

An error would be an unintended alteration of the coin's design, by some mint process during the die preparation or striking of the coin.

That's about the best distinction I can think of.

coindeuce · April 12, 2007 11:48AM

Here is an example of an error coin. One of my favorites, known as a partial collar strike, also nicknamed "railroad rim". Regardless of wether it is the result of human error or mechanical error in the striking process, it is likely to be a "one off", as opposed to a variety, or die stage of a coin which can exhibit the same die marker(i.e. a crack) in multiple coins. This partial collar strike resulted from the planchet not having been fully enclosed in the edge collar during striking of the obverse/reverse. This 1881 Morgan was recently graded By PCGS. MS-62.

What is a error coin?

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