Given the location, why isn’t the WESPEX show a bigger draw than it currently is?

Longacre · April 4, 2007 5:34AM

The WESPEX show is held four times a year in Westchester County, NY. I’ve been to the show a few times, and it is great. However, I would classify it as a strong regional show, and not nearly in the category of a “major”.

There is a ton of money in that area-- Westchester County, NY, the “Gold Coast” in Connecticut (where a very prominent collector of Southern gold lives

), Manhattan, and Northern New Jersey. Also, everyone always says that there is a serious need and demand for East Coast shows, and that is one of the reasons why the Baltimore show is growing by leaps and bounds. Does anyone know what the WESPEX show can do to entice more dealers to attend, and then expand to meet the obvious demand for a big coin show in that area?

TomB · April 4, 2007 5:38AM

1) The maze of a traffic pattern directly in front of the exposition hall.

2) The perception among many that there are security concerns beyond what might be normal.

3) Those terrible banners they hang from the front of the building that nearly invite folks to rip people off as they leave.

4) The non-secured parking across the street and behind the brook and trees.

5) The awful basement feel of some of the shows that are more like an old VFW than a nice bourse.

Cladiator · April 4, 2007 5:41AM

<< Does anyone know what the WESPEX show can do to entice more dealers to attend >>

Make the first three days of a four day show for dealer to dealer wholesale business only. Then let the dealers pack up and go home early on the fourth day.

TomB · April 4, 2007 5:42AM

<< 

<< Does anyone know what the WESPEX show can do to entice more dealers to attend >>

Make the first three days of a four day show for dealer to dealer wholesale business only. Then let the dealers pack up and go home early on the fourth day. >>

seanq · April 4, 2007 5:43AM

<< 1) The maze of a traffic pattern directly in front of the exposition hall.

2) The perception among many that there are security concerns beyond what might be normal.

3) Those terrible banners they hang from the front of the building that nearly invite folks to rip people off as they leave.

4) The non-secured parking across the street and behind the brook and trees.

5) The awful basement feel of some of the shows that are more like an old VFW than a nice bourse. >>

That all said, I just made arrangements to take next Friday afternoon off and brave the traffic, the crime, and the claustrophobia.

I've not attended, but I understand that for the last couple of years the November show was held at a nearby hotel instead of the County Center. Was attendance any better or wre there other issues at that venue as well?

Sean Reynolds

tightbudget · April 4, 2007 5:44AM

Because the damn thing is tucked away in a basement like setting...hard to find the first time I went there.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 5:49AM

These are great comments. I thought I was the only one who did not like being in the basement of the convention center. The whole appearance is pretty dank if you want my honest opinion. I think some of the shows are set up upstairs, which might be a better venue.

I also agree that the parking situation is not great. I don't like walking across the highway (basically) to get to that lot, and I never really feel safe walking from the center to the lot (and I'm a tough guy

).

In my OP, I should have asked for alternative locations. There are a bunch of hotels in that area which can host the show, but I am not aware of any convention center-type locations.

MrEureka · April 4, 2007 5:55AM

As TomB says, plus it's a long way from the major NY airports. Yes, I know you can fly into White Plains, but I doubt it's easy or cheap from most cities. Jon, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 6:00AM

<< As TomB says, plus it's a long way from the major NY airports. Yes, I know you can fly into White Plains, but I doubt it's easy or cheap from most cities. Jon, please correct me if I'm wrong. >>

It's about 30-40 minutes from LGA and JFK. I have not mapquested it to check on the actual miles, but I would consider the major airports to be very close to White Plains.

carl · April 4, 2007 6:00AM

From what's been said I'm glad I never tried to go there.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 6:26AM

OK, here are the actuals:

LGA to Westchester County Convention Center-- 28.81 miles, 37 minutes
JFK to Westchester County Convention Center-- 35.63 miles, 47 minutes

WTCG · April 4, 2007 6:40AM

<< OK, here are the actuals:

LGA to Westchester County Convention Center-- 28.81 miles, 37 minutes
JFK to Westchester County Convention Center-- 35.63 miles, 47 minutes >>

Those numbers are calculated by travelling at the speed limits. During any traffic or construction whatsoever the travel times increase significantly.

I believe I have mentioned to Jon before that the dates for the show aren't advertised far enough in advance. Once you hear about the upcoming show dates it's too short notice to make a schedule change or to find affordable transportation.

I have been to the show venue once for the Pre-ANA in 2002. I remember that the venue is reasonably close to the train station but the bourse room itself is a rather old building that bears a not-so-pleasant odor.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 6:48AM

<< Those numbers are calculated by travelling at the speed limits. During any traffic or construction whatsoever the travel times increase significantly. >>

Details, details.

seanq · April 4, 2007 7:04AM

<< From what's been said I'm glad I never tried to go there. >>

I actually like the show a lot, especially the one in November which used to be in the larger upstairs hall. It is the only mid-sized show within an hour of me, and I try to make a point of attending at least once a year. The neighborhood seems a little tough but parking in the smaller lot in front of the building I've never felt unsafe. Crossing a six-lane interchange to reach the building can be a little dicey, though.

Before I had kids, I used to trek up north to similar-sized shows in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, and those were typically in roomier venues in nicer locations. It is just much harder to justify the three-hour trip.

Sean Reynolds

WTCG · April 4, 2007 7:15AM

<< 

<< Those numbers are calculated by travelling at the speed limits. During any traffic or construction whatsoever the travel times increase significantly. >>

Details, details.

>>

Based experiences locally and when travelling out of town, it seems that Yahoo! estimates are typically optimistic. For example, on a recent two hour drive my actual driving time was only about 5 minutes faster than the Yahoo! estimated driving time. This was when I was driving faster than the speed limit for almost the entire two hours with traffic non-existent on the roads.

From what I have witnessed firsthand there is hardly a time of day when there isn't some kind of traffic slowdown in the metropolitan New York, NY area.

CoinRaritiesOnline · April 4, 2007 7:20AM

if someone was thinking of moving the location of that show, might I suggest Connecticut? The CT border is only 10 minutes away, and there is no sales tax whatsoever on coins or bullion.

Perhaps someone could put on a show in stamford near the train station. that way people from NYC could come up ...

Or, perhaps a suburban hotel with good parking, not far from the NY and NJ lines...

WTCG · April 4, 2007 7:26AM

<< if someone was thinking of moving the location of that show, might I suggest Connecticut? The CT border is only 10 minutes away, and there is no sales tax whatsoever on coins or bullion.

Perhaps someone could put on a show in stamford near the train station. that way people from NYC could come up ...

Or, perhaps a suburban hotel with good parking, not far from the NY and NJ lines... >>

That's actually a good idea. The Stamford area seems to have some decent hotels.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 7:28AM

<< if someone was thinking of moving the location of that show, might I suggest Connecticut? The CT border is only 10 minutes away, and there is no sales tax whatsoever on coins or bullion.

Perhaps someone could put on a show in stamford near the train station. that way people from NYC could come up ...

Or, perhaps a suburban hotel with good parking, not far from the NY and NJ lines... >>

I would sponsor a show in CT (along with CoinRaritiesOnline, of course). There are lots of nice hotels, great restaurants, tons of businesses, 40 minutes from Grand Central, etc., etc. What's not to like?

CoinRaritiesOnline · April 4, 2007 7:36AM

If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-)

WTCG · April 4, 2007 7:43AM

<< If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-) >>

Dave Wnuk...have you thought about operating your own show? If it's an idea you can work with then a show in Southern Connecticut may work.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 7:48AM

<< 

<< If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-) >>

Dave Wnuk...have you thought about operating your own show? If it's an idea you can work with then a show in Southern Connecticut may work. >>

I think the demand is huge for a major show in Southern Connecticut. It would draw a lot of collectors from the tri-state region.

WTCG · April 4, 2007 7:54AM

<< 

<< 

<< If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-) >>

Dave Wnuk...have you thought about operating your own show? If it's an idea you can work with then a show in Southern Connecticut may work. >>

I think the demand is huge for a major show in Southern Connecticut. It would draw a lot of collectors from the tri-state region. >>

There may be demand for a show in Connecticut, but then for a show to be a large and well attended it must be in a location that is convenient for travelling dealers. Though commuting by rail may be convenient for some attendees, dealers who are not from the area who are setting up or otherwise carrrying a large amount of inventory may be unable to travel to the show by train. Requiring a rental car or taking a long taxicab ride to the show venue is not a feasible option to many dealers.

There are other factors also, such as the (fairly expensive) hotel rates and the in town after-show entertainment options.

Take the Bay State Show in Boston...although the bourse floor has a poor layout, the show consistently attracts many out of town dealers because of its convenient location in downtown Boston. Ditto for the Baltimore show.

Longacre · April 4, 2007 7:57AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-) >>

Dave Wnuk...have you thought about operating your own show? If it's an idea you can work with then a show in Southern Connecticut may work. >>

I think the demand is huge for a major show in Southern Connecticut. It would draw a lot of collectors from the tri-state region. >>

There may be demand for a show in Connecticut, but then for a show to be a large and well attended it must be in a location that is convenient for travelling dealers. Though commuting by rail may be convenient for some attendees, dealers who are not from the area who are setting up or otherwise carrrying a large amount of inventory may be unable to travel to the show by train. Requiring a rental car or taking a long taxicab ride to the show venue is not a feasible option to many dealers.

There are other factors also, such as the (fairly expensive) hotel rates and the in town after-show entertainment options. >>

I know all of the strip clubs in Stamford.

Kidding aside, there is lots to do, especially if you are into good restaurants. The bar scene is outstanding due to scores of young professionals who work in Stamford. I'm a little long in the tooth for those sorts of things, but when I was a young pup just out of college, Stamford for happy hour was the place to be.

WTCG · April 4, 2007 8:04AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< If we could do up a spreadsheet showing that a show would be a profitable proposition, we'd be in. Except for the largest of coin shows, I haven't been able to make it "work" on paper. I haven't worked it out in a few years, but when I did do so a few years ago, I was shocked by how much time and effort would be put in for so small a potential return. I hope the economics have changed since I ran those rough calculations.

I highly respect people who put on coin shows. They are doing Yeoman's work, as far as I can see. :-) >>

Dave Wnuk...have you thought about operating your own show? If it's an idea you can work with then a show in Southern Connecticut may work. >>

I think the demand is huge for a major show in Southern Connecticut. It would draw a lot of collectors from the tri-state region. >>

There may be demand for a show in Connecticut, but then for a show to be a large and well attended it must be in a location that is convenient for travelling dealers. Though commuting by rail may be convenient for some attendees, dealers who are not from the area who are setting up or otherwise carrrying a large amount of inventory may be unable to travel to the show by train. Requiring a rental car or taking a long taxicab ride to the show venue is not a feasible option to many dealers.

There are other factors also, such as the (fairly expensive) hotel rates and the in town after-show entertainment options. >>

I know all of the strip clubs in Stamford.

Kidding aside, there is lots to do, especially if you are into good restaurants. The bar scene is outstanding due to scores of young professionals who work in Stamford. I'm a little long in the tooth for those sorts of things, but when I was a young pup just out of college, Stamford for happy hour was the place to be. >>

Ah yes...young professionals and the bar scene after work...a place where you can see more tools than at a Home Depot. I'm from Silicon Valley and I have a home in the only nightlife district in the Santa Clara County so I should know...

Strip clubs aside, I was thinking more in the realm of sightseeing in town by walking although good restaurants are definitely a good thing provided they're within a safe walking distance from the show venue or hotel.

Although after-show attractions may seem trivial to some, it is a significant factor for a lot of people who may travel to attend a coin show. The Santa Clara show is known for carrying the stigma of being a boring place to be after hours. Due to that stigma, I know of firsthand accounts of dealers who have in the past flat out refused to travel to the Santa Clara show solely citing its after-show boredom factor.

roadrunner · April 4, 2007 9:35AM

Connecticut had some shows in the southwest part of the state that were rather strong for many years (Milford for example). Back in the 1970's the Westchester and Boston shows were much larger and stronger. I too have the dungeon feeling in the basement of the Westchester County center. There also seemed to be too many dealers with little to offer for more advanced collectors. The November show is very good though the stamp dealers have about half the floor now. When the summer pre-ANA show was held there in 2002 that was excellent.

roadrunner

DaveG · April 4, 2007 9:36AM

Unlike just about everyone who has posted to this thread, I've been to 22 of the last 24 WESPNEX shows (that's all but two shows since November 2000, I think).

I will certainly defer to Jon Lerner (who is a regular table-holder) and the folks from CoinSuperStore (who sponsor a local show in Connecticut), but here are my thoughts:

While WESPNEX is located in a very affluent area, my observations (based on going to shows in northern NJ and Westchester since 1993) are, that with a few exceptions, the residents of affluent suburbs just don't go to coin shows. Why? Well, for one thing, as Longacre can tell you, as soon as his "rug rats" turn into "yard apes", he'll be spending each and every weekend of the next decade watching them play soccer, basketball, softball, baseball, lacrosse, hockey, etc., etc. If he ever gets five minutes alone, he'll be stroking [himself] on some beautifully manicured fairway, not wasting his time indoors. If a guy like that is a coin collector, what does he do? Well, he buys at auctions or he calls major dealers, like Doug Winter - but he doesn't go to coin shows regularly.

[As for later in life, well, once Longacre's kids are out of the house, he'll be selling his hopefully-appreciated-but-with-really-high-property-taxes McMansion to some young person who's moving into town for the (hopefully) excellent school system, which will allow Longacre to flee to a lower tax area.]

The Parsippany show thrives, while the WESPNEX show stumbles along. Both are about the same size, but the Parsippany show is a one-day show while the WESPNEX show is a three-day show (if you count Sundays, which is usually a ghost town). Personally, I'd say that WESPNEX isn't a "strong regional show", but a strong local show (like Parsippany). Both shows attract dealers mainly from contiguous states. Gus Tiso comes to WESPNEX from Maryland, but I'd say that he's the only dealer who travels that far (except for one dealer who comes from around the Adirondacks). The other thing about a one-day show is that there's no dealer demand for "night life" - they get up early, go to the show, do the show, and then they go home. It's a lot easier.

Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't an "obvious demand for a big coin show in that area."

On the other hand, if you're a collector, the WESPNEX show is well worth going to. Yes, it's true that three out of the four shows are held in the basement and it's also true that only about 60 of the dealers are coin dealers (the rest are stamp dealers). But, the WESPNEX show attracts a different mix of dealers than Parsippany and you can find a very wide range of material (except the really inexpensive junk boxe material).

It's also true that the traffic pattern around the building is a bit confusing - at least the first time you go to the show. Personally, I've never felt the slightest bit concerned about my personal safety either. (Frankly, if you've got the intestinal fortitude to go to Baltimore, then you'll find WESPNEX a cake-walk.) As for parking, I've always parked in the lot in front of the building - I didn't even know there was another lot until three years ago. My advice: park in the lot in front of the building - I've never seen it more than a quarter full.

Now, it is true that I've seen groups of young males clutching baseball bats loitering in front of the Convention Center - but don't worry, they're only going to the baseball collectibles show in the Main Hall. It's also true that I've seen people who remind me of Tony and Carmella Soprano loitering in front of the building, too - again, don't worry, they're only going to the Gem and Jewelry show in the Main Hall. (Personally, I feel safer at WESPNEX, with its busier venue and parking lot in full view of a busy, six-lane road than I do at Parsippany, with its parking lot out of sight of the main road and bordered by really tall bushes.)

(On the other hand, I've been really terrified by the sight of groups of paunchy, middle-aged white guys wearing "Mets" jackets - but that's a personal issue and I've been trying to deal with it.)

Longacre · April 4, 2007 10:43AM

<< Unlike just about everyone who has posted to this thread, I've been to 22 of the last 24 WESPNEX shows (that's all but two shows since November 2000, I think).

I will certainly defer to Jon Lerner (who is a regular table-holder) and the folks from CoinSuperStore (who sponsor a local show in Connecticut), but here are my thoughts:

While WESPNEX is located in a very affluent area, my observations (based on going to shows in northern NJ and Westchester since 1993) are, that with a few exceptions, the residents of affluent suburbs just don't go to coin shows. Why? Well, for one thing, as Longacre can tell you, as soon as his "rug rats" turn into "yard apes", he'll be spending each and every weekend of the next decade watching them play soccer, basketball, softball, baseball, lacrosse, hockey, etc., etc. If he ever gets five minutes alone, he'll be stroking [himself] on some beautifully manicured fairway, not wasting his time indoors. If a guy like that is a coin collector, what does he do? Well, he buys at auctions or he calls major dealers, like Doug Winter - but he doesn't go to coin shows regularly.

[As for later in life, well, once Longacre's kids are out of the house, he'll be selling his hopefully-appreciated-but-with-really-high-property-taxes McMansion to some young person who's moving into town for the (hopefully) excellent school system, which will allow Longacre to flee to a lower tax area.]

The Parsippany show thrives, while the WESPNEX show stumbles along. Both are about the same size, but the Parsippany show is a one-day show while the WESPNEX show is a three-day show (if you count Sundays, which is usually a ghost town). Personally, I'd say that WESPNEX isn't a "strong regional show", but a strong local show (like Parsippany). Both shows attract dealers mainly from contiguous states. Gus Tiso comes to WESPNEX from Maryland, but I'd say that he's the only dealer who travels that far (except for one dealer who comes from around the Adirondacks). The other thing about a one-day show is that there's no dealer demand for "night life" - they get up early, go to the show, do the show, and then they go home. It's a lot easier.

Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't an "obvious demand for a big coin show in that area."

On the other hand, if you're a collector, the WESPNEX show is well worth going to. Yes, it's true that three out of the four shows are held in the basement and it's also true that only about 60 of the dealers are coin dealers (the rest are stamp dealers). But, the WESPNEX show attracts a different mix of dealers than Parsippany and you can find a very wide range of material (except the really inexpensive junk boxe material).

It's also true that the traffic pattern around the building is a bit confusing - at least the first time you go to the show. Personally, I've never felt the slightest bit concerned about my personal safety either. (Frankly, if you've got the intestinal fortitude to go to Baltimore, then you'll find WESPNEX a cake-walk.) As for parking, I've always parked in the lot in front of the building - I didn't even know there was another lot until three years ago. My advice: park in the lot in front of the building - I've never seen it more than a quarter full.

Now, it is true that I've seen groups of young males clutching baseball bats loitering in front of the Convention Center - but don't worry, they're only going to the baseball collectibles show in the Main Hall. It's also true that I've seen people who remind me of Tony and Carmella Soprano loitering in front of the building, too - again, don't worry, they're only going to the Gem and Jewelry show in the Main Hall. (Personally, I feel safer at WESPNEX, with its busier venue and parking lot in full view of a busy, six-lane road than I do at Parsippany, with its parking lot out of sight of the main road and bordered by really tall bushes.)

(On the other hand, I've been really terrified by the sight of groups of paunchy, middle-aged white guys wearing "Mets" jackets - but that's a personal issue and I'm been trying to deal with it.) >>

This definitely gets POTD honors.

droopyd · April 4, 2007 11:05AM

I plan to be there on Saturday.... dealers, show me your nicer date MS Lincolns!

DaveG · April 4, 2007 11:34AM

This definitely gets POTD honors.

No, no - you're too modest! Your post about JFK and LaGuardia only being 10 minutes apart gets POTD - Post of the Decade!!

oreville · April 4, 2007 12:01PM

<< (On the other hand, I've been really terrified by the sight of groups of paunchy, middle-aged white guys wearing "Mets" jackets - but that's a personal issue and I'm been trying to deal with it.) >> >>

Substitute "Yankees" for the Mets and you will get me into a frenzy.

A lonely Indians fan

..............................................................in New York.

oreville · April 4, 2007 12:07PM

A couple of comments.

(1)Do not forget the Westchester County Airport. It has become a more viable airport in recent years.

(2)That being said, I agree that Stamford (or even possibly Greenwich, CT) could be a very plausible choice. It merits further investigation.
Better than the White Plains venue.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · April 4, 2007 12:35PM

it's not WESPEX, its WESPNEX (Westchester Philatelic, Numismatic Exhibition)

It has maxed out it's space--the show is crowded as heck as is, there is no more room to expand

coindeuce · April 4, 2007 1:22PM

Maybe the Wespnex show promoter would like to consider teaming up with the Buffalo Numismatic Association, which is sponsoring a new annual show at the Niagara Falls Convention center starting this year(April 19-21). The venue is located adjacent to the Niagara Casino(operated by the Seneca Indian Nation), is less than 20 minutes fom the Buffalo International Airport, and is located within walking distance of one of the most popular tourist attractions in the world - The Falls!!

See ya there!!

JSsson · April 7, 2007 4:56PM

A show in the Niagara Falls area would sound fun to go to. There would be plenty of things to see for the family while you're at the coin show.

I also agree that it is important for a coin show in order to attract a bigger out of town crowd to be held in a place that is desirable for people to travel to. Having coin shows in places like Anaheim, Orlando and Las Vegas would probably be at the top of the list for potential out of town attendees to make it to.

mommam17 · April 7, 2007 10:52PM

If you have a show near the Stamford train station, you are asking for trouble. You would have to move it uptown, or better yet, to Greenwich.

Given the location, why isn’t the WESPEX show a bigger draw than it currently is?

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