1. 1964-D dollars.. where and how many 2. The 1965 Franklins, Breen mentions.. tall tale or a story waiting to be uncovered by future generations 3. Micro O counterfits.. why, who, where, when 4. True Populations of Coins
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
Re: 1895 circulation strike silver dollars. You can find the current state of research on this in Coin Values, September 2006, pp.46-55. The preponderance of evidence is that 12,000 coins were struck in June 1895 and dated 1895. Proofs were struck at various times during the year.
Re: 1964-D silver dollars. New research on these will be presented in a forthcoming book on Peace dollars, pp.51-78. Includes quantities of silver and blanks used, coins struck, cost, coins mutilated and melted, information from participants, etc. Unless someone comes up with the personal diary of a key participant or one of the coins, this may be the end of the tale.
Re: 1900-O/CC. Not on anyone's list so far, but progress is being made on this. Check your hobby publications in about 6 to 8 months.
That should keep the silver dollar aficionados happy.
<< <i>3) How many 1974 Aluminum cents are out there? >>
there's got to be a few - several hundred at least were passed out to congresscritters and other government lumiaries and more than a few were not returned (no one's saying how many, probably out of embarassment). i suspect that they'll turn up eventually, it's only been 30 years, give it another 30.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Is the 1959 Lincoln Head Cent with Wheat Reverse really a legitimate issue ?
Is there a complete set of all 1870 San Francisco minted coins in the corner stone of the SF Mint ?
Where are the other fifteen 1894-S Barber Dimes...did most of the missing coins get lost in the 1906 earthquake ?
Is there really another roll of MS 1901-S quarters somewhere in Hawaii or are they all cleaned up "nice and pretty" in the Phillippines ?
Did the 12,000 Morgan dollars of mint state 1895 Philadelphia coins get melted under the Pittman Act of 1918 ?
Is there a 1964 Ben Franklin...a 1964-D Peace dollar...a 1931-P or S Standing Liberty quarter ?
Why did I throw away a 1955 DDO when I was eight years old because I thought it was fake ? Only to learn about them when I was fourteen ? [ Yes, I'm originally from the Boston area].
Will an 1898-O Micro O Barber Half be located and authenticated by a major TPG this year....wishing out loud.
Will more of our National Treasures from the Numismatic Collection be put on loan to more ANA sponsored conventions ?
Plus, all the others previously mentioned.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Why did it take the race 37,500 years to invent coinage.
Sure, we spent the first few thousand years trying to harness and control fire and 35,000 years to develop farming and cities. Then we got sidetracked by the wheel and the pyramids that no one seems to understand anyway. But it was still another two thousand years before money was invented. Two thousand years of writing and poetry, two thousand years of technological advancement and cussing since it was hard as hell to find change for a wagon load of hay.
Early farmers used tokens to represent farm assets when bartering. As farms grew larger someone thought of using some tokens to represent 10 cows instead of just one. Letters and writing developed from these tokens. As the economies grew and became more interconnected some staples and metals established values which had little variation from place to place. Gold became a means to make change but still it was necessary to weigh it at each juncture. Some would be stamped to attest to its purity and weight but it was till many years before true coins became standard.
How could it take 4,500 years of civilization to invent coins? What were they doing all that time?
One of them has to be the 1913 Liberty Nickels. Last year in my Platinum membership I received an excellent book by PCGS on coin grading. It has been a useful tool and I have really enjoyed using it as a reference guide. I renewed my membership this year and expected a similar type of reference guide. Instead I received a 370 page book on 5 Nickels. if 3 people are able to write a book on 5 Nickels there has to be a good mysterie story there somewhere.
I second the question that member Argentum Rex asked....... what is the true story of the Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters ?? Most of the replies to this thread ask about older, classic coin mysteries. Just give the Wisconsin State Quarters a few more years and they maybe near the top of the list of mysteries !! Chris Pilloid and Rick Snow have been kind enough to put many of the pieces of the Wisconsin Quarter Puzzle together for all of us to enjoy. Maybe in one's dreams, but I wish the person(s) responsible in the Denver Die Room would stand up and be accounted for !! The human mystery will continue to add interest in these modern day classics. Everyone have a great day !! Mark.
Here's a good one: How were matte proofs created during the early 20th century?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The question of how "matte" proof were made was settled by correspondence from mint officials: 1. cents & nickels - dies sandblasted before hardening. Struck on medal press. 2. gold & certain silver - "Roman" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. No further finishing. Now called "satin" proof. 3. gold & certain silver - "matte" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. Coins individually sandblasted. Now called "sandblast" proof.
1)Why my coins all tone an ugly color? 2)Why all my high dollar Ebay auctions seem to end evenings when Ebay is having computer problems? 3)Why if I drop a coin its always the most valuable one? 4)Why "I collect coins" never seems to work as a pick up line? 5)Why dealers always say my PCGS graded coins just barely made the grade and lack eye appeal? 6)Why bullion prices drop the day after I buy?
<< <i>The question of how "matte" proof were made was settled by correspondence from mint officials: 1. cents & nickels - dies sandblasted before hardening. Struck on medal press. 2. gold & certain silver - "Roman" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. No further finishing. Now called "satin" proof. 3. gold & certain silver - "matte" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. Coins individually sandblasted. Now called "sandblast" proof. >>
Great information!! Thanks!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
3. gold & certain silver - "matte" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. Coins individually sandblasted. Now called "sandblast" proof.
Roger - That still doesn't tell us what gave each issue its own distinctive color. Was the coin treated with something before being sandblasted? Is the color caused by a residue of sandblasting? This is an issue because dipped matte gold loses most if not all of these distinctive colors. If we can figure this out, we might stem the tide of destruction and widgetization in the matte gold arena.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Although it has now been solved..... I feel the mystery of the missing 1913 Liberty Nickel was as good as it gets (until they actually found it in their closet after 50 years).
<< <i>Has anyone yet mentioned the "E" and "L" counterstamps on 1815 & 1825 Capped Bust quarters? >>
Good one! There are at least 10 different theories, but no conclusive evidence. We are still waiting for the "smoking gun" on this mystery. A letter, newspaper account, mint document........something.
The coins were produced in small batches and individually sandblasted. Every coin is, in effect, a hand finished product defined by the angle of the sand stream, size of grit, type of grit, pressure of the air, speed of the operator in treating the coin, etc. What is amazing is the overall uniformity within any one year.
<< <i>Has anyone yet mentioned the "E" and "L" counterstamps on 1815 & 1825 Capped Bust quarters? >>
Good one! There are at least 10 different theories, but no conclusive evidence. We are still waiting for the "smoking gun" on this mystery. A letter, newspaper account, mint document........something. >>
Has anyone searched the mint records to see who deposited silver to make quarters? In theory, they would have done so in 1815 or so and again in 1825 or so, but not during the intervening years. That cannot be too many people.
<< <i>I second the question that member Argentum Rex asked....... what is the true story of the Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters ?? Most of the replies to this thread ask about older, classic coin mysteries. Just give the Wisconsin State Quarters a few more years and they maybe near the top of the list of mysteries !! Chris Pilloid and Rick Snow have been kind enough to put many of the pieces of the Wisconsin Quarter Puzzle together for all of us to enjoy. Maybe in one's dreams, but I wish the person(s) responsible in the Denver Die Room would stand up and be accounted for !! The human mystery will continue to add interest in these modern day classics. Everyone have a great day !! Mark. >>
The story with his counterfeit cents was (if I remember correctly) that he developed a way of shooting a coin out of a shotgun and into a piece of steel, which would be used as a die later. Apparently, the softer coin would actually leave a usuable impression on the harder piece of steel as a result of the high velocity it was traveling at. There is a much better description of the process in Numismatic Forgery...
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
<<The story with his counterfeit cents was (if I remember correctly) that he developed a way of shooting a coin out of a shotgun and into a piece of steel, which would be used as a die later. Apparently, the softer coin would actually leave a usuable impression on the harder piece of steel as a result of the high velocity it was traveling at. There is a much better description of the process in Numismatic Forgery...>>
A most intriguing book, that everyone should read. Makes you wonder how many more Hofmanns are out there.
<< <i>The coins were produced in small batches and individually sandblasted. Every coin is, in effect, a hand finished product defined by the angle of the sand stream, size of grit, type of grit, pressure of the air, speed of the operator in treating the coin, etc. What is amazing is the overall uniformity within any one year. >>
So these proofs were sandblasted AFTER they were struck???
The first step was to strike the coin from new dies on a medal press. There was no special preparation or post-striking treatment. (You can see vestiges of this in early strike 1921 Peace dollars. The coins that have smooth, satin-like surfaces lacking in luster actually show the die as it was originally, before use altered the surface.)
The gold and silver pieces struck on a medal press were known at the mint as "bright" proofs. Collectors of gold proofs in 1909-1910 didn't like them because they were not distinctive enough from normal press strikes. The mint went back to sandblasting the "bright" proofs in 1911 at the urging of the ANA and William Woodin. Mint official did not like sandblasted proofs because they were too different from normal production coins to be put into circulation if not sold.
Artists of the day liked sandblasted proofs because it showed the design to its best as a medallic composition. The artists uniformly rejected brilliant proofs, calling them "cheap" and "distracting."
“Sandblast” was the commonly used term in hobby publications prior to about 1940 or 1950. Thereafter, for reasons I do not understand, the terms “matte” and “Roman” came into use and the story was told that no one knew how these proof coins were made.
You can learn more about this in “Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908” where you will also find original letters and references.
Comments
2. The 1965 Franklins, Breen mentions.. tall tale or a story waiting to be uncovered by future generations
3. Micro O counterfits.. why, who, where, when
4. True Populations of Coins
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is Dorkkarl? >>
Yes, WHO is Dorkkarl?
That IS the question >>
Dorkkarl is David Hall's alt. He laughs maniacally as he posts that he doesn't own any slabbed coins.
Re: 1964-D silver dollars. New research on these will be presented in a forthcoming book on Peace dollars, pp.51-78. Includes quantities of silver and blanks used, coins struck, cost, coins mutilated and melted, information from participants, etc. Unless someone comes up with the personal diary of a key participant or one of the coins, this may be the end of the tale.
Re: 1900-O/CC. Not on anyone's list so far, but progress is being made on this. Check your hobby publications in about 6 to 8 months.
That should keep the silver dollar aficionados happy.
<< <i>I would have to add:
What exactly were the so-called Continental Dollars?
What were the Brasher Doubloons?
How many business cards currently comprise a complete set for RLH collectors? >>
And to the latter question I might add: Does that include a "Go directly to Jail. Do not pass GO." card?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>3) How many 1974 Aluminum cents are out there? >>
there's got to be a few - several hundred at least were passed out to congresscritters and other government lumiaries and more than a few were not returned (no one's saying how many, probably out of embarassment). i suspect that they'll turn up eventually, it's only been 30 years, give it another 30.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Is the 1959 Lincoln Head Cent with Wheat Reverse really a legitimate issue ?
Is there a complete set of all 1870 San Francisco minted coins in the corner stone of the SF Mint ?
Where are the other fifteen 1894-S Barber Dimes...did most of the missing coins get lost in
the 1906 earthquake ?
Is there really another roll of MS 1901-S quarters somewhere in Hawaii or are they all cleaned up
"nice and pretty" in the Phillippines ?
Did the 12,000 Morgan dollars of mint state 1895 Philadelphia coins get melted
under the Pittman Act of 1918 ?
Is there a 1964 Ben Franklin...a 1964-D Peace dollar...a 1931-P or S Standing Liberty quarter ?
Why did I throw away a 1955 DDO when I was eight years old because I thought it was fake ?
Only to learn about them when I was fourteen ? [ Yes, I'm originally from the Boston area].
Will an 1898-O Micro O Barber Half be located and authenticated
by a major TPG this year....wishing out loud.
Will more of our National Treasures from the Numismatic Collection
be put on loan to more ANA sponsored conventions ?
Plus, all the others previously mentioned.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
This is one of Mark Hofmann's creations. Would love to own it, fake or not.
Sure, we spent the first few thousand years trying to harness and control fire and
35,000 years to develop farming and cities. Then we got sidetracked by the wheel
and the pyramids that no one seems to understand anyway. But it was still another
two thousand years before money was invented. Two thousand years of writing and
poetry, two thousand years of technological advancement and cussing since it was
hard as hell to find change for a wagon load of hay.
Early farmers used tokens to represent farm assets when bartering. As farms grew
larger someone thought of using some tokens to represent 10 cows instead of just
one. Letters and writing developed from these tokens. As the economies grew and
became more interconnected some staples and metals established values which had
little variation from place to place. Gold became a means to make change but still it was
necessary to weigh it at each juncture. Some would be stamped to attest to its purity
and weight but it was till many years before true coins became standard.
How could it take 4,500 years of civilization to invent coins? What were they doing all
that time?
Sorry PCGS and forum but I couldn't resist!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
What percentage of 20th century silver coins have been melted (90%, 40% and war nickels)?
Why are 1955-D quarters so inexpensive, relative to their mintage?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Who is Dorkkarl? >>
Twin brother of Lurkkarl!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
1. cents & nickels - dies sandblasted before hardening. Struck on medal press.
2. gold & certain silver - "Roman" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. No further finishing. Now called "satin" proof.
3. gold & certain silver - "matte" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. Coins individually sandblasted. Now called "sandblast" proof.
2)Why all my high dollar Ebay auctions seem to end evenings when Ebay is having computer problems?
3)Why if I drop a coin its always the most valuable one?
4)Why "I collect coins" never seems to work as a pick up line?
5)Why dealers always say my PCGS graded coins just barely made the grade and lack eye appeal?
6)Why bullion prices drop the day after I buy?
<< <i>The question of how "matte" proof were made was settled by correspondence from mint officials:
1. cents & nickels - dies sandblasted before hardening. Struck on medal press.
2. gold & certain silver - "Roman" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. No further finishing. Now called "satin" proof.
3. gold & certain silver - "matte" proof - struck on medal press from new dies. Coins individually sandblasted. Now called "sandblast" proof. >>
Great information!! Thanks!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i><<Is the 1959 Lincoln Head Cent with Wheat Reverse really a legitimate issue ?>>
This is one of Mark Hofmann's creations. Would love to own it, fake or not.
How did he do it? Spark erosion die? The details i.e. beard, hair, lines in the wheat stalks look a little mushy.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Have u been vanzubanized?
Second Generation Coin, Currency and Precious Metals Dealer
Coin, Currency or Bullion Questions?
Call anytime 954-493-8811
Roger - That still doesn't tell us what gave each issue its own distinctive color. Was the coin treated with something before being sandblasted? Is the color caused by a residue of sandblasting? This is an issue because dipped matte gold loses most if not all of these distinctive colors. If we can figure this out, we might stem the tide of destruction and widgetization in the matte gold arena.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Has anyone yet mentioned the "E" and "L" counterstamps on 1815 & 1825 Capped Bust quarters? >>
Good one! There are at least 10 different theories, but no conclusive evidence. We are still waiting for the "smoking gun" on this mystery. A letter, newspaper account, mint document........something.
Let's just say I've heard that Jim O'Donnell had a thing going with the Queen of the Hobos back in the 60's.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Amazing that only one has ever been found after all these years. (note that the NGC and PCGS MS-67 is the same coin).
That is only revealed on a need to know basis.
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
K S
Also, why was Consuela REALLY fired?
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone yet mentioned the "E" and "L" counterstamps on 1815 & 1825 Capped Bust quarters? >>
Good one! There are at least 10 different theories, but no conclusive evidence. We are still waiting for the "smoking gun" on this mystery. A letter, newspaper account, mint document........something. >>
Has anyone searched the mint records to see who deposited silver to make quarters? In theory, they would have done so in 1815 or so and again in 1825 or so, but not during the intervening years. That cannot be too many people.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>I second the question that member Argentum Rex asked....... what is the true story of the Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters ?? Most of the replies to this thread ask about older, classic coin mysteries. Just give the Wisconsin State Quarters a few more years and they maybe near the top of the list of mysteries !! Chris Pilloid and Rick Snow have been kind enough to put many of the pieces of the Wisconsin Quarter Puzzle together for all of us to enjoy. Maybe in one's dreams, but I wish the person(s) responsible in the Denver Die Room would stand up and be accounted for !! The human mystery will continue to add interest in these modern day classics. Everyone have a great day !! Mark. >>
Mark, you must have missed the story.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>How many Mark Hofmann counterfeits are in still in PCGS holders?
You may have a 14D Wheat made by Hofmann, or a 09s VDB, or a 16D Merc, or....................... >>
Ooohhh! that's a good one!
Some of his fake wheats were made by using a shotgun, using dies.
Apparently enough force to strike a coin, and a gorgeous one at that.
Any one of us would love to own that 59 Wheatie.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
A most intriguing book, that everyone should read. Makes you wonder how many more Hofmanns are out there.
<< <i>The coins were produced in small batches and individually sandblasted. Every coin is, in effect, a hand finished product defined by the angle of the sand stream, size of grit, type of grit, pressure of the air, speed of the operator in treating the coin, etc. What is amazing is the overall uniformity within any one year. >>
So these proofs were sandblasted AFTER they were struck???
Coin Rarities Online
I freaked out when I found that out.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
<< <i>What ever happened to Don Taxay and why did he completely disappear from the hobby?
Also, why was Consuela REALLY fired?
Longacre discovered Spanish annotations in his favorite QDB books, correcting mistakes, updating pedigree info, adding obscure bibliographic references, stuff like that.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
The first step was to strike the coin from new dies on a medal press. There was no special preparation or post-striking treatment. (You can see vestiges of this in early strike 1921 Peace dollars. The coins that have smooth, satin-like surfaces lacking in luster actually show the die as it was originally, before use altered the surface.)
The gold and silver pieces struck on a medal press were known at the mint as "bright" proofs. Collectors of gold proofs in 1909-1910 didn't like them because they were not distinctive enough from normal press strikes. The mint went back to sandblasting the "bright" proofs in 1911 at the urging of the ANA and William Woodin. Mint official did not like sandblasted proofs because they were too different from normal production coins to be put into circulation if not sold.
Artists of the day liked sandblasted proofs because it showed the design to its best as a medallic composition. The artists uniformly rejected brilliant proofs, calling them "cheap" and "distracting."
“Sandblast” was the commonly used term in hobby publications prior to about 1940 or 1950. Thereafter, for reasons I do not understand, the terms “matte” and “Roman” came into use and the story was told that no one knew how these proof coins were made.
You can learn more about this in “Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908” where you will also find original letters and references.
1. At an auction, why does somebody always bid higher than me when I try to buy?
2. How come my coins aren't worth anything when I try to sell?
3. Why do all of my coins come back BB from PCGS?
4. Why don't any of my slabs crossover?
5. Why would anybody buy anything from the mint?
6. What am I supposed to do with all that stuff I bought from the mint?
7. Why is coin grading a mystery?
8. Who was Morgan, and was he related to St. Gaudens?
9. Are there any honest coin dealers?
10. Why do people at coin shows smell bad?
<< <i>Why do people at coin shows smell bad? >>
They don't; you smell, they stink.