Another dumb Newbie question about cleaning.
slucas
Posts: 121
If you're not supposed to clean coins and PCGS doesn't like them, then what do you call it when you use acetone?
I am always reading hear about using it. Just curious of the definition.
I am always reading hear about using it. Just curious of the definition.
-s
0
Comments
-Paul
Will’sProoflikes
It's called "cleaning".
Dave
<< <i>If you're not supposed to clean coins and PCGS doesn't like them, then what do you call it when you use acetone?
I am always reading hear about using it. Just curious of the definition. >>
It's all the same thing. People get together and through years of bantor, worry, debate, and propaganda, they decide to make certain forms of cleaning and alterring acceptable, while increasing the rate at which they frown upon the methods they find unacceptable. In 20 years artificial toning will be kosher, just like dipping is. One day, polishing coins might come back in vogue. The truth is, a coin is to be judged for what it is at any given time--every chemical treatment or alterration included. If it cannot be detected, it will not affect the coin's value. If it can, it will. And that will never change.
-Paul
<< <i>Dave, it may be cleaning to the average person, but in the numismatic world, cleaning has a connotation of "improperly cleaned" and that is why I call it conservation, or dipping Silver eagles in acetone to prevent spotting would be preservation. IMO
-Paul >>
In a decade or two, people will be talking about how the only silver eagles that are guaranteed genuine and unalterred are the ones with milk spots.
The most frightening threads I read on this forum concern newbies asking about 'dipping coins'.
I’m in the numismatic world, and I consider dipping a coin in acetone cleaning. Not abrasive cleaning, but cleaning none the less. Calling it 'conservation' doesn’t make it any better in my book. Maybe a dip in acetone will improve a coin, maybe it won’t. You roll the bones each time you do it. After enough dips, we all know what the end product will likely look like.
All I know is coins are lost or damaged every day by both newbies AND pros, when folks try to ‘improve’ them --- this is a sad fact in the numismatic world. In fact, I expect this is true of most collectables.
I’m of the school that a coin is what it is. If you don’t like the look, don’t buy it. If a coin you own develops an issue, oh well...live with it.
I encourage collectors, young and old, to leave them well enough alone. If they would, the hobby would be much better off.
<End of rant!>
Take care - Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>Dave, it may be cleaning to the average person, but in the numismatic world, cleaning has a connotation of "improperly cleaned" and that is why I call it conservation, or dipping Silver eagles in acetone to prevent spotting would be preservation. IMO
-Paul >>
In a decade or two, people will be talking about how the only silver eagles that are guaranteed genuine and unalterred are the ones with milk spots. >>
Hoard the spots!!!! You go!
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I have a low grade 1899-S Barber Quarter. I grade it Good details, perhaps it has been cleaned. Anyhow it had some gunk on it. It might be residue from tape. So I soaked it in acetone and removed the gunk. Did I harm this coin? I don't think so.
Before:
After:
There isn't a dip or liquid made that is acceptable to dunk your coins into if the end result is alterring the coin to the point that it can be detected. Intent doesn't matter and never really did, even with the artificial toning issue. What really matters is what other collectors think when they see a coin. What is acceptable one day is not the next, and the only way to safeguard collections from the changing times is to leave them as they are.
I think Paul is reasonable and Dave99B, while a good person, might be overlooking a situation like mine where acetone can help a coin...
I think the spots are a result of a wash the mint used that wasn't properly rinsed off at the mint. I might be wrong about that but I had the opinion that the spots didn't come from ageing...
Dealers dip cuz people whine about the natural skin and say "oooh, that's gross". So the dealer in his quest to pay his mortgage runs in the back and comes back with a coin that the guy says :
" Oh my word, I've searched my life over for this one, how much ?" The dealer thinks of the virginity he just stole from a perfectly good coin and makes a thousand percent cuz that's the coin the customer wanted.
It's an age old problem and NGC and PCGS got thrown to the wolves by the collecting public cuz so many people got ripped for so long.
The belt tightens gradually smarter brains eventually prevail.
Bottom line is ......
Dawn™ gets the grease out
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Any extreme position is likely to have exceptions. To say one should never use acetone because it is cleaning is extreme.
I have a low grade 1899-S Barber Quarter. I grade it Good details, perhaps it has been cleaned. Anyhow it had some gunk on it. It might be residue from tape. So I soaked it in acetone and removed the gunk. Did I harm this coin? I don't think so.
Before:
After:
Take a look at the natural skin on the first coin... sure it's splotchy, but now the acetone stripped away some of that crusty brown, naturally gotten, age old look of an otherwise untampered with coin that might have been saved and stayed natural if you'd have simply used a q-tip of acetone near or on the rim where the yellow stuff was.
K, Carl.. there's my mild disagreement and protecting my stance of NOT USING ANYTHING on coins.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I call it conservation or preservation
-Paul >>
Paul(no offense)but you sound like a politician. LOL
Cleaning can also be considered restoration. Restored to a natural appearance. Just a different twist here.
K, Carl.. there's my mild disagreement and protecting my stance of NOT USING ANYTHING on coins.
>>
No, I didn't use anything! Nothing at all, just a Q-tip with a bit of acetone. All I removed was that lovely, original scotch tape residue... I know, I know, I was wrong to disturb the original unmolsted tape residue. After all it might have been left there by a mint employee... You know, the mint employee who had this coin is his pocket for many years then stuck it on a cardboard with some tape... After first cleaning it with some natural tooth paste... OK, damn me if you will. However I bow to the god of the all mighty dollar and after my amazing feat of conservation I can now earn an extra one for my efforts!
<< <i><<sure it's splotchy, but now the acetone stripped away some of that crusty brown, naturally gotten, age old look of an otherwise untampered with coin that might have been saved and stayed natural if you'd have simply used a q-tip of acetone near or on the rim where the yellow stuff was.
K, Carl.. there's my mild disagreement and protecting my stance of NOT USING ANYTHING on coins.
>>
No, I didn't use anything! Nothing at all, just a Q-tip with a bit of acetone. All I removed was that lovely, original scotch tape residue... I know, I know, I was wrong to disturb the original unmolsted tape residue. After all it might have been left there by a mint employee... You know, the mint employee who had this coin is his pocket for many years then stuck it on a cardboard with some tape... After first cleaning it with some natural tooth paste... OK, damn me if you will. However I bow to the god of the all mighty dollar and after my amazing feat of conservation I can now earn an extra one for my efforts! >>
CW your quarter looks much better after removing the man made residue.
... what's the improvement ?
yer right, it don't matter on a crappy coin. Use toothpaste or WD-40
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
... what's the improvement ?>>
Geez, I figured there would be someone who would come out in defense of tape residue!!!!
Hey, you want to pay a premium for tape residue? I have some coins here that still have some tape residue... it is not the kind you can make overnight, it has yellowed, you know, aged, for many years. It is "original" tape residue... just PM me with a premium offer and they are yours... just think you will be saving these low grade Barbers from a fate of an acetone bath... yeah, that's it, you will be saving the world!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i><<yellow/brown to yellow/purple
... what's the improvement ?>>
Geez, I figured there would be someone who would come out in defense of tape residue!!!! >>
I DID.......
I'm just trying to have some fun and at the same time suggest that some conservation is good. Feel free to disagree with me all you want; I'm still happy about my miserable coin.
<< <i>I’m in the numismatic world, and I consider dipping a coin in acetone cleaning. Not abrasive cleaning, but cleaning none the less. Calling it 'conservation' doesn’t make it any better in my book. Maybe a dip in acetone will improve a coin, maybe it won’t. You roll the bones each time you do it. After enough dips, we all know what the end product will likely look like. >>
Dave99B---Are you saying that a coin with active PVC should not be dipped in acetone?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire