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BEWARE of the Ebay seller

I bought this from KMyoung9840ot on ebay last week EBAY#330100278890. Check his scan out. I showed the coin around at a show yesterday and to a person felt the coin was misgraded and not the same as in the pic.I tried to see about a return and the guy wants to clip me for 35 bucks to return it. Ill keep it and hope PCGS stands by its grade guarantee. Check my pic and youll see the hideous toning. it actually looks better in the scan that I did than what it really looks like. It is hazy and hits al over the front. I had one in a NGC 64 holder that blows this away
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Umm. Why beware more than ordinary? The auction didn't state a return policy which means expect no returns. It's also PCGS slabbed and many sellers don't take returns on certified coins. Many auctions are not approval sales. A $35 return fee is more generous than you should have expected because the auction should have led you to conclude there would be no returns allowed at all.

    You bid on the photos in the auction in an auction without a stated return policy and it doesn't seem like the seller has done anything wrong.
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    No returns is a red flag, but the photos don't show anything negative about the coin.
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    goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    what's his reasoning for the 35.00?

    if it's fees, he can get them back.

    If it's greed, so what...I'd return it.

    It's butt ugly.
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    TomBTomB Posts: 23,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is the same coin, without doubt. Anyway, why would you ever buy anything on ebay without a spelled-out return policy?
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Looks like the same coin to me. 4 word description and poor photos so you were banking on PCGS grade to make it worthwhile. for most buyers that works fine. I generally only take a PCGS graded coin back if I described it incorrectly...with that toning I'd say "beautiful" may have been incorrect but we all know aesthetics is in the eye of the beholder.

    $35 to return an $800 coin isn't bad at all.

    I wouldn't expect PCGS to do anything unless it is an obvious error.

    Good luck,
    Jerry
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    I find proofs to be particularly difficult to judge from photos, especially ones as lacking as the seller's. Definitely the same coin, though.
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    you think he sold you a different coin?

    do you have some photos of the coin?
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    RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd suggest paying the $35 to return the coin, if you think it's too ugly to keep it. JMHO.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That is the same coin, without doubt. >>



    I agree with Tom. No question about it.

    Russ, NCNE
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    jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421
    Hideous toning and hazing should not realy affect the grade. Hits will. I have seen a lot of these proof walkers that are hazed and toned over and still grade relatively high. I have seen this in both PCGS and NGC slabs. If the obverse shows a lot of hits, I bet the reverse doesn't. Grade wise its probably right, even though it may lack eye appeal.

    You paid plenty, so if the buyer will allow a return for $35, I would do it if I wasnt completely satidfied. $35 is nothing compared to living with a very expensive coin you will dispise for as long as you own it. IMO pay it and forget it. Next time if you are going to pull the trigger on a coin like that, see it in hand first.
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have seen a lot of these proof walkers that are hazed and toned over and still grade relatively high. >>



    Yep, it's very common on these and many collectors prefer them that way because it's generally a sign of originality.

    Russ, NCNE
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    123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    If you don't like it take the hit and return it. That's a rather expensive coin to buy based on those poor pictures. I hope this will make you a wiser buyer in the future.
    image
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    DennisHDennisH Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $35 is less than a 5% return fee, which is fairly common if you read a lot of eBay coin ads. It isn't right, but it's common.

    Thirty-five bucks is cheap versus looking at a coin you don't like until you finally get fed up and dump it for an even bigger loss.
    When in doubt, don't.
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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Same coin.
    I don't like it in the auction pics nor in the attached pic you did.
    As for a different coin, did you look at the serial # on the coin you received? He listed it in the auction pic (well, he showed it).

    Going by the glare on the plastic, doesn't look photoshopped.

    No return stated. Sounding like buyer's remorse.

    On a 800+ dollar coin, if you don't like it, eat the $35.

    I had a $300+ coin I bought when getting started and ended up not liking it much. Dealer would have likely taken it back (even months later) as we have a good seller/buyer relationship (he is local) but I felt since I knew what I was doing (ummm...sure I did image, but he didn't hype it nor push it on me, so it was all me), it was my problem. I sat on it for over a year and wouldn't accept offers for less than I paid (Morgan in MS65 grade...semi-common coin...greysheet was just under $400) and finally sold it as part of a trade in for cash+trade.

    So, looking back, $35 for an immediate chance to get rid of it would have been worth it.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    ldhairldhair Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like you gave the seller a neg. "DECEPTIVE PICTURES OF ITEM!!!!!"
    I don't feel the images were deceptive. They show the coin to be ugly and you bid anyway?
    Larry

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks like you gave the seller a neg. "DECEPTIVE PICTURES OF ITEM!!!!!"
    I don't feel the images were deceptive. They show the coin to be ugly and you bid anyway? >>

    Should this thread be titled "BEWARE of the Ebay buyer"?
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    jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421
    Looks like the buyer is going to have an unfavorable ebay rating in the end.
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    It's not real smart to neg a seller before you get your refund. image

    Russ, NCNE
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    TomBTomB Posts: 23,065 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's not real smart to neg a seller before you get your refund. image

    Russ, NCNE >>


    Excellent point!
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    Returning it and taking the $35 hit seems like the best option. The seller listed it with no reserve, so took a significant risk. With those fuzzy pictures, so did any buyer. How can it possibly be a different coin, when the photo clearly shows the certification number, a number that matches in the PCGS database? What are you doing buying an $800 coin on the basis of fuzzy photos? Sometimes I wonder about folks that post these situations, this is like the third or fourth one in a row, that makes the poster look bad, rather than the other way around.

    Even if PCGS decides to make an award on the grade guarantee, it is likely to be a relatively small award. It might be the difference in price between PF64 and PF65, or maybe $100 or so, max $150. There is no certainty of that, and postage and insurance both ways will cost $20 or more. Better to return it, for a sure settlement and a $35 loss, than roll the dice again hoping that PCGS will offer a big settlement.

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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Even if PCGS decides to make an award on the grade guarantee >>



    And that is extremely unlikely since the coin was very recently graded.

    Russ, NCNE
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    "Mistakes were made."
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    nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
    I think you are being unfair to the seller, based upon the information at hand here. IMHO, you made a serious mistake when you gave the seller a negative so quickly, without really trying to resolve the issue in a fair manner. For this reason, I am putting you on my blocked list.image
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
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    Hey I tried to resolve this with the seller but he was uncooperative..IMO he tried to pull a fast one and so I got it. Im just trying to warn about this clown. This coin may end up going to NCS across the street. I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded. Anytime Ive sold stuff I give refunds and my scans are acurate unlike some people. I guess it is hard to take the highroad.
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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,801 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Looks like you gave the seller a neg. "DECEPTIVE PICTURES OF ITEM!!!!!"
    I don't feel the images were deceptive. They show the coin to be ugly and you bid anyway? >>

    Should this thread be titled "BEWARE of the Ebay buyer"? >>



    I thought the same. Lately, a lot of these anti-buyer/anti-seller threads have been biting the OPer in the rear.
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    segojasegoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
    Always get the return policy in advance.

    If you neglected to do this (The seller should advertise his/her policy..but when they don;t it's no returns) then you should eat the coin. Since you've given negative feedback, I wouldn't send the coin back now...he may just keep it. Sending the coin to PCGS will only cost you more money. Sell the coin to someone else for an appropriate amount and move on!
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
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    MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777
    I would have just sent it back and taken the $35 loss like others have stated...
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
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    notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey I tried to resolve this with the seller but he was uncooperative..IMO he tried to pull a fast one and so I got it. Im just trying to warn about this clown. This coin may end up going to NCS across the street. I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded. Anytime Ive sold stuff I give refunds and my scans are acurate unlike some people. I guess it is hard to take the highroad. >>



    Seller has a no return policy on this coin but offered to accept the return for a very reasonable fee. High road is easy to take...but not for those who can't see it from their vantage point. You've made my blocked bidder list. Thanks for the warning. --Jerry
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    123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Looks like you gave the seller a neg. "DECEPTIVE PICTURES OF ITEM!!!!!"
    I don't feel the images were deceptive. They show the coin to be ugly and you bid anyway? >>

    Should this thread be titled "BEWARE of the Ebay buyer"? >>



    I certainly think so.
    image
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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,503 ✭✭✭✭
    Im just trying to warn about this clown. This coin may end up going to NCS across the street. I guess it is hard to take the highroad. >>



    HUH?



    << <i>Hey I tried to resolve this with the seller but he was uncooperative..IMO he tried to pull a fast one and so I got it. >>


    From what you posted earlier, YOU just didn't want to pay a relatively low restocking fee! Its not like the seller wouldn't accept the return which BTW he had no obligation to do so since there was no Return Policy listed in the auction!



    << <i>I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded. >>


    You haven't been paying attention now have you? Just because the slab says PR65 does not mean that it would grade a PR65 the second time through. Grading is subjective.



    << <i>Anytime Ive sold stuff I give refunds and my scans are acurate unlike some people. >>


    Regardless of what you do with your EBay auctions does not mean that other people have to! This seller specifically left out a Return Policy and you chose to ignore that fact.



    From what I can see, there is nothing unreasonably wrong with the auction.

    It really sounds like your suffering from Buyers Remorse over paying big bucks for a coin that you don't want and are fortifying that with the belief that the pictures the seller presented are deceptive!

    His pictures and your scan pretty much sums it up!

    Too often, folks feel empowered by this forum and look to its members for justification on the bad choices they've made. You made a bad choice by bidding on a No Returns auction, you made a bad choice by not accepting the sellers offer for a return and accepting your $35 education fee and I think you made a bad choice by airing your problem to the forum. Very few folks will support you on this especially since its evident that you just plain screwed up by bidding 6 separate times!

    Sell it, recoup some of your costs and move on.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey I tried to resolve this with the seller but he was uncooperative..IMO he tried to pull a fast one and so I got it. Im just trying to warn about this clown. This coin may end up going to NCS across the street. I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded. Anytime Ive sold stuff I give refunds and my scans are acurate unlike some people. I guess it is hard to take the highroad. >>



    what a TOOL!

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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am blocking both parties. That's how I handle these disputes. image
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    rjsriv
    Your a complete MORON!!
    You should not even be able to post here...

    You saw the pictures, it was slabbed in a PCGS slab...

    DEAL DONE.....!!!

    You are blocked from all my ebay bids you freaking moron!!!
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    skier07skier07 Posts: 4,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel for you but you have few options.

    I was the butt of jokes with a similar thread a while back. I bought a $600 coin when the auction clearly stated there
    was a no refund policy. I however chose not to leave any feedback. I filed a complaint with paypal and after six weeks they
    ruled in the sellers favor.

    I still feel very strongly that if a seller intentionaly misrepresents a coin he should be financially reponsible. Goodluck
    proving this! His pictures were terrible and he was selling his coin soley on the slab. Buying a proof coin from two
    poor scans is a crap shoot. Did he intentionaly photo the coin poorly to make it look better? Who knows and trying
    to find out is next to impossible.

    Bottum line, don't buy expensive coins unless there is a return policy. Unfortunately on ebay buyer beware and though
    most people who sell coins are probably honest people with integrity, dirtbags are out there also.

    In your scenario, similar to mine, you opted to buy a coin with poor photos and you purchased a coin which you did not
    like. Having left the negative I would call it a day and either add it to my collection or sell it.

    Take this as a learning experience and move on. I learned from my experience. Tuition can sometimes be costly.

    Bruce
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    karpman9karpman9 Posts: 310 ✭✭


    << <i>rjsriv
    Your a complete MORON!!
    You should not even be able to post here...

    DEAL DONE.....!!!

    You are blocked from all my ebay bids you freaking moron!!! >>


    Wow! Those are really harsh words and completely uncalled for. I think this poster/bidder is missing the boat BIGTIME, as we all do, but why call him names and suggest he should be barred from posting?

    Blindtiger, with only 25 posts and such a quick draw, I will expect your comeupance on these boards to come sooner rather than later.

    Welcome.

    Jeff.K. Karp

    Meet my first little guy, Benjamin. Born 4/8/2007
    Pic taken at 2.5 years of age.
    image
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    storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "It's not real smart to neg a seller before you get your refund."

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////

    It's not real nice to NEG a seller who says he will accept a return,
    when he CLEARLY is not obligated to do so.

    Another good example of why sellers should never leave FB before
    a transaction is completed to the satisfaction of both seller and buyer.

    image
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
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    Jeff Karp. what is your ebay ID?

    I want to buy from you, and then when I am not satisfied, I just leave you a negative, without ever contacting you....????

    Why would you support a buyer who handles a sale like this? Yes, give us your Ebay ID, so we may all bid on your items ,Mr.Positive..
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    rjsriv,
    Thanks for the information, you have been added to my blocked list.
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    "I guess it is hard to take the highroad. "

    you negged the seller? that was uncalled for, he offered a refund for a reasonable fee; even though he didnt have to.

    what was the reasoning>? You really shot yourself in the foot on this one.
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    lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭
    <<< I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded.>>>>

    this is sad...,
    why do people grade coins that are already graded?the long time dealers should of expressed that it is "their opinion only" in reference to the grade not that it is "OVER/UNDER GRADED"
    i'd bet some dealers would agree in the same breath that it is graded properly!
    why do people buy graded coins on ebay to do a at home appraisal and if it's a canidate for an upgrade do these same people send off additional funds?-I THINK NOT
    if the cert is good just why are you grading at home and taking it out on sellers-SERIOUSLEY

    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


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    << <i><<< I had lontime dealers look at this coin and said it is overgraded.>>>>

    this is sad...,
    why do people grade coins that are already graded?the long time dealers should of expressed that it is "their opinion only" in reference to the grade not that it is "OVER/UNDER GRADED"
    i'd bet some dealers would agree in the same breath that it is graded properly!
    why do people buy graded coins on ebay to do a at home appraisal and if it's a canidate for an upgrade do these same people send off additional funds?-I THINK NOT
    if the cert is good just why are you grading at home and taking it out on sellers-SERIOUSLEY >>


    I see both sides of this issue and one thing you might be overlooking is that "buy the coin, not the holder" philosophy. We can't really inspect a coin on the internet. So this guy buys it and inspects it, and the plastic slab doesn't match the grade. That's reasonable. The grading services are offering their opinions, too--nothing is for sure or set in stone. And things have changed quite a bit in the old days most stuff was sold raw, and when grading services came out the sellers would grade the coin anyway, and then list the certified grade, but now it's just listing what's on the plastic and nobody cares about the coin. Anyway, if the seller didn't offer refunds the buyer should accept that and just resell the coin. Negging the seller so soon seems like pulling the trigger early and now nobody is going to be happy.

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    buying coins is like the stockmarket, some days you win some days you loose. I recently bought on ebay some thing that was labled "46 silver certs" when i got them there was only 1. I questioned the seller he said 46 was a lot number because the pic only showed 1 bill thats what i was biding on so in short I payed $46 for a bill the corner was tore off of. I took the hit on dident leave any feedback, and give it to a kid for a gift. So suck it up be a man and move on. eugene
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>buying coins is like the stockmarket, some days you win some days you loose. >>

    Is buying sight unseen more like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get? image

    The problem here is that there were photos and the photos showed the coin to be ugly. He bought it anyway.
    There was no return policy. He wanted to return it anyway (and was allowed to).
    There was no reason to neg the seller. He negged the seller anyway.
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    RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    And, another backfire. image

    Russ, NCNE
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    al410al410 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭
    rjsriv, a very unfair feedback, coin was sold on very little info and bought with very little knowledge. Most sellers sell a graded coin based on the TPG's grade, especially when it is in a PCGS holder. I think the seller was more than fair offering to refund for a $35.00 fee. There are always risk involved in internet buying and selling. In my opinion on this one you are in the wrong.
    AL
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    jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421
    Wow, did this turn out real messy. We all, including myself, have made mistakes in the past. Buyer needs to let this go. If I were the buer I would talk with the seller and negotaite the refund plus the $35.00 (which I feel is very reasoanable considering he stated no return policy). I would then attempt to have the negs mutually withdrawn, save face and move on.
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    storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "I would then attempt to have the negs mutually withdrawn,... "

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    It appears that a historically good seller made the mistake
    of leaving FB for the unreasonable buyer immediately after
    the item was paid for.

    There is no "mutual withdrawal" available.

    I certainly hope the seller does NOT cave in and re-up his
    original generous return offer.

    Sellers can make a really BIG blocked-bidder list by reading
    this board.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
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    jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421
    There is no "mutual withdrawal" available.

    Sorry, I was mistaken. For some reason I thought buyer and seller could always mutualy withdraw negs. I guess that another reason to make absolutley sure you want to neg before doing so.
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    << <i>

    << <i>Looks like you gave the seller a neg. "DECEPTIVE PICTURES OF ITEM!!!!!"
    I don't feel the images were deceptive. They show the coin to be ugly and you bid anyway? >>

    Should this thread be titled "BEWARE of the Ebay buyer"? >>



    Yes, indeed. rjsriv is now on my Blocked Bidder List. I sure don't need a head case like this bidding on my stuff. He can't come up with any better picture than the eBay seller yet he thinks the seller's pictures were deceptive? People living in glass houses should not throw stones.

    Jonathan
    I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.

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