Options
coins as investments?
cohocorp
Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
what advice would you guys give if someone were to dump $20,000 to $25,000 into coins at this time? although i dont really care for moderns, are there possibly any offerings from the mint worth while this year such as the gold eagles again? i find it difficult to think that the mint will leave money on the table 2 years in a row. i am not a seasoned coin person. i parked some money in early dollars about 18 months ago and i cant even figure out what they are worth. i posted the pics awhile back. the 1797 dollar cost me alittle under $5000 if i remember correctly. as for this time around, the time frame would be about 2 to 3 years to hold. i realize that some people's views are that coins should be a hobby and not to look at it from an investment point. bottom line is there is big money in coins so it is very difficult not to view them as investments. i realize going forward to be extremely careful is buying raw.
just curious to member's opinions.
just curious to member's opinions.
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
i am very bad with pics btw.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Russ, NCNE
Take Russ for example. He specializes in Silver Kennedy's. Look at any Silver Kennedy proof on e-bay and then look at anything he has. All of his look dramatically better and I mean not even close. He has learned this series and knows what to look for. In return people look to him for nice examples and he makes some nice side money to boot.
<< <i>here is a pic of the early dollars i bought.
i am very bad with pics btw.
These all look like problem coins that if genuine will most likely not make it into a PCGS or NGC slab due to rim dings, cleaning, environmental damage etc... It would be tough to imagine a short or long term investment return on something like these.
<< <i>yes russ i bought them raw. >>
Have you ever taken these to an expert for an opinion?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>so its basically the same principle as sportscards it sounds. >>
Yep
I knew it would happen.
Edited to add: just noticed that you already said you knew to be careful with buying raw coins.
russ- never got the expert opinion. i really like the early dollars so to me it was worth it. i think the 1797 was $4500. the 1795 was about $2000 and the 1800 was about $1000. although i cannot remember the sellers (2 different) i purchased them from, i wouldnt have bought them from anyone who had any bad or questionable feedback at all. also, i would have made sure that it was normal for the sellers to be listing these items. i wouldnt by raw items from anyone who also sold slabbed items for fear of the problem coins. just normal considerations i make when purchasing. the rim dings are the issue with the 1797.
<< <i>tightbudget- obviously i missed your thread or i wouldnt have started another. oops. >>
No problem.
<< <i>although i cannot remember the sellers (2 different) i purchased them from, i wouldnt have bought them from anyone who had any bad or questionable feedback at all. >>
So you ponied up several thousand dollars buying these raw on eBay? All I can say is that you have more balls then I do!
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Something like this was once posted here. >>
Geez, this guy's just full of charm.
<< <i>
<< <i>although i cannot remember the sellers (2 different) i purchased them from, i wouldnt have bought them from anyone who had any bad or questionable feedback at all. >>
So you ponied up several thousand dollars buying these raw on eBay? All I can say is that you have more balls then I do!
Russ, NCNE >>
russ- as i mentioned, i wouldnt buy raw again. not worth it.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Coin collecting is a fine and wonderfull hobby but an investment war that true collectors eschew.
I have failed since 1956 in collecting a complete set of US coins from 1793 and have now resigned.
My Son and Daughter well have a ball selling them for a parcil of the many many K that was spent.
Coins For Profit?
<< <i>If you're doing a 60/35/5, stock/bond/alternate investment split, would it be interesting to do a 55/35/5/5 split with the other 5% being into coins, realizing they too are a risky, alternate investment? >>
yes in my opinion, the right coins could be viewed as an alternative investment, though I think you have to have a willingness to hold 5 to 8 years.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>what advice would you guys give if someone were to dump $20,000 to $25,000 into coins at this time? although i dont really care for moderns, are there possibly any offerings from the mint worth while this year such as the gold eagles again? i find it difficult to think that the mint will leave money on the table 2 years in a row. i am not a seasoned coin person. i parked some money in early dollars about 18 months ago and i cant even figure out what they are worth. i posted the pics awhile back. the 1797 dollar cost me alittle under $5000 if i remember correctly. as for this time around, the time frame would be about 2 to 3 years to hold. i realize that some people's views are that coins should be a hobby and not to look at it from an investment point. bottom line is there is big money in coins so it is very difficult not to view them as investments. i realize going forward to be extremely careful is buying raw.
just curious to member's opinions. >>
for a two to 3 year hold I would buy Gem 65 Saints ( uh, have someone help you pick solid for the grade coins) and gem classic foreign
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I was thinking of keeping more like 20 years, when my grandaughters are trying to pay off their college loans... >>
even better
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Coins can be a rewarding investment for very sophisticated numismatists.
Here's my definition of a very sophisticated numismatist: one who can answer your question.
My own opinion is that until you can answer your question yourself, "dump" is the operative word for your $20,000-$25,000.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Tis a pipe dream
<< <i>cohocorp,
Coins can be a rewarding investment for very sophisticated numismatists.
Here's my definition of a very sophisticated numismatist: one who can answer your question.
My own opinion is that until you can answer your question yourself, "dump" is the operative word for your $20,000-$25,000. >>
That is really the key, it takes a lot of knowledge, skill and excellent contacts to make money in classic coins. It is a difficult market for a novice. A few novices beat the odds, but it is a poor percentage play. This is the opposite of stocks, where index funds and passive management out does the majority of experts that have years of education and excellent contacts. The "dumb" money that makes much in coins has been buying new U. S. Mint issues on speculation. That goose may be cooked soon with the huge lineup of new issues and a slew of speculators playing with hot money. Sooner or later it will burn out, my guess would be sooner.
Those who harbor coins for profit are only pretenders to the hobby.
We know and accept this while respecting the efforts of them to preserve the same.
Of course all that's very un-ethical and I'd never do that.
Aside from that, become an expert on coins and sell your knowledge. Otherwise as stated earlier, I'd stick to bullion, but that market is hyper inflated right now. Then again, maybe not if you believe a collapse is impending.
Just my 2 cents.
BN
Web Application Architect - ColdFusion, AJAX, CSS, XHTML, JavaScript, Oracle, MySQL
I agree.
You are better off buying a CD.
When you buy a coin it should be like buying art. If the value goes to zero at least you enjoy looking at it. If you want to make money on it either you must know more than everybody else in the market or you must work hard or you must get lucky.
Anyway, the collector in me really took control of almost every common early eagle I bought except a 1795 9 Leaf that I paid 90K for and flipped to a customer for just under 100K, graded MS-61. He sold it at a Heritage sale not long after that. His Wife wanted him to sell it. It brought 170K. Probably upgraded since then.
My eagles? Well, I took a few years off and traveled thru and lived in the far east. Vietnam for a year and a half, Thailand. Came back after getting my brains beat in financially while "retired". Broke out some of those eagles and sold a few of them for just under 10K. In fact I think I sold one or 2 to Bob Green for 8500.00. A few months later there were a few people out there interested when these coins hit 14-15K and I sold an 1799 R-7 variety to a sports card dealer in Pennsylvania, in AU-58 for 14,500. Boy they sure went zoom after that. Break outs too. I saw a couple of my 58's in 61 holders. Someone sold them probably in the mid 30's. I sold one of mine to a lawyer in Philadelphia for 17,500 and he turned right around and consigned it to an ANR sale where it sold for 23K and change just a few months later. I saw a 1796 that I owned sell for 100K. I paid in the 40's for it and flipped it for 12% over cost.
While I'm happy to take those dates on consignment now, I still think they need to come down some.
But nobody I know has been unhappy about how their collections of early gold did over the years. Well, maybe some of the people who bought early common tens in the last year but I don't know them. I know that most of my customers made a heck of a lot more money on those coins than I did. That darn colector in me........
Think and buy like a collector. Sell like an investor might be a good way to go. But by all means, buy something cool. Something so nice that when you show it to someone who is in the know about coins, they will look at it, say wow, nice, wanna sell it? Figure out what you like. Invest in some books and periodicals. Talk to a few dealers that seem to know what they are talking about and learn baby learn.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Oh yes and I am laughing al the way to the poor house
<< <i>But by all means, buy something cool. Something so nice that when you show it to someone who is in the know about coins, they will look at it, say wow, nice, wanna sell it? >>
This is it, right here. Great story!
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
Heritage
Teletrade
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
i think the 1797 was $4500. the 1795 was about $2000 and the 1800 was about $1000.
<<
sorry to say it but you are already in a hole...stop digging.
basically it looks like i outta stick to what i know. i am already heavy into real estate, stocks, antique cars and vintage sportscards. it gets boring the same old thing though, so i was interested in expanding into coins a little bit. but there it just alot of negativity i see. from the spirit of this thread, it certainly feels as though coins arent worth persuing. instead of direction, pretty much was just ridiculed. i thought i was clear regarding going forward, not mistakes made in the past, i.e. the early dollars. i didnt realize how few people here made mistakes. my bad. thanks to those who were helpful.
a courteous response would have been -- "looks like platinum 1/2 ounces may be ok or pcgs ms 65 saints look promissing."
i wasnt looking for the old -- "you f'd up by buying raw 18 months ago, give it up."
i was forthright with that fact and disclaimed as such. no need to drive the point home.
without a doubt, i someone came to me looking for advice for say 1952 topps baseball, which i know very well, i wouldnt drive home the point of his past mistakes which he clearly stated were mistakes as opposed to giving him forward looking advice.
Early or condition or rarity.
Any of those 3 criteria will always be in demand and rising.
If you show a coin to a dealer and he just WON'T let you "walk away" you've hit the area.
<< <i>Jcarney- i appreciate the info. thanks.
basically it looks like i outta stick to what i know. i am already heavy into real estate, stocks, antique cars and vintage sportscards. it gets boring the same old thing though, so i was interested in expanding into coins a little bit. but there it just alot of negativity i see. from the spirit of this thread, it certainly feels as though coins arent worth persuing. instead of direction, pretty much was just ridiculed. i thought i was clear regarding going forward, not mistakes made in the past, i.e. the early dollars. i didnt realize how few people here made mistakes. my bad. thanks to those who were helpful.
a courteous response would have been -- "looks like platinum 1/2 ounces may be ok or pcgs ms 65 saints look promissing."
i wasnt looking for the old -- "you f'd up by buying raw 18 months ago, give it up."
i was forthright with that fact and disclaimed as such. no need to drive the point home.
without a doubt, i someone came to me looking for advice for say 1952 topps baseball, which i know very well, i wouldnt drive home the point of his past mistakes which he clearly stated were mistakes as opposed to giving him forward looking advice. >>
By your statement above it looks like you might have been more interested in the metals market and not so much in coins. This goes well with what you just explained you have experience in. This is a market where you can buy futures etc... Right now many are speculating that gold will hit $750-800 buy next year. This could potentially be a good area to invest in. Silver fluctuates enough that you might be able to buy on the next dip for a short term gain.
Your best bet is to prepare for a mint purchase that you can re-sell within a year, or better yet, at Christmastime.
<< <i>what advice would you guys give if someone were to dump $20,000 to $25,000 into coins at this time?... i am not a seasoned coin person. >>
Based on your own words: don't.
But if you are really looking to dump. Check out some deals on the Home Shopping Network or I'll even sell you some coins.
I specialize in Wisconsin currency! Looking for information on WI national banknotes. Census stands at 12,318 notes.
**"Wisconsin National Bank Notes - 2nd Edition" is out!!!" Only $20PPd!!!