If I was the consignor of this coin, I'd be PI$$ED.

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 12:33PM

How could Heritage possibly be acting in the interest of an owner/consignor of this coin? Are their pockets so high that they could not have had this reholdered before photographing it? The hairlines in the photo are likely to be on the holder, but they still diminish the value of the description, especially for those who don't have the opportunity to see the coin in person, or have an agent view it for them before it crosses the block.

All scratched up

speety · March 5, 2007 12:34PM

What coin?

Edit: Link is there now and i'd be pissed as well!

techeff · March 5, 2007 12:34PM

That coin looks great to me!

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 12:35PM

Fuggedded the link. Look agin.

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 12:36PM

<< That coin looks great to me! >>

Not in that holder, IMHO!!

Shamika · March 5, 2007 12:38PM

I love it when the holder is all scratched up and gunky. It only means less competition for me the bidder.

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 12:41PM

<< I love it when the holder is all scratched up and gunky. It only means less competition for me the bidder.

>>

Way to deflect the issue

So, lets say you own that coin and you consigned it. Now how do you feel?

rec78 · March 5, 2007 12:55PM

The person that owns the coin should have had it reholdered. Heritage is just the auctioneer. I put the onus on the seller. If he wants to sell it like that it is up to hjm.

notwilight · March 5, 2007 1:01PM

Is everyone in agreement that those marks are on the holder?

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 5, 2007 1:05PM

Nice coin though

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 1:11PM

<< Is everyone in agreement that those marks are on the holder? >>

If those marks were on the coin, I would take whatever Heritage could realize for it in that holder!!

coindeuce · March 5, 2007 1:14PM

<< The person that owns the coin should have had it reholdered. Heritage is just the auctioneer. I put the onus on the seller. If he wants to sell it like that it is up to hjm. >>

And just how do you justify that logic for a consignor who happens to be an uninformed heir to the coin? Still no culpability for the auction house? Not in my world.

pb2y · March 5, 2007 1:20PM

Those scratch lines must be on the slab????

Russ · March 6, 2007 1:11AM

I'm not convinced those hairlines are on the holder. It is not inconceivable for a Trade Dollar to grade PF65 at NGC even with that degree of hairlining.

Russ, NCNE

Bochiman · March 6, 2007 1:22AM

<< 

<< The person that owns the coin should have had it reholdered. Heritage is just the auctioneer. I put the onus on the seller. If he wants to sell it like that it is up to hjm. >>

And just how do you justify that logic for a consignor who happens to be an uninformed heir to the coin? Still no culpability for the auction house? Not in my world. >>

I agree with that....many heirs don't know and that is how dealers, and others, prey on them.
In addition, it is a poor business practice for heritage themselves...
1) Turns off potential future consignors (getting it reholdered would never turn one off...unless it was OGH or something)
2) Likely to realize a lower price with a severely scratched up holder which would be less in Heritage's pocket anyway.....so, bad business practice. If I were in charge of Heritage, I would want to maximize my potential commissions, which, in this case, would be a cost effective reholdering.

Cladiator · March 6, 2007 1:27AM

Don't be so sure. I won a proof (1876) on Heritage just last month and the images made it out to look like it had a scratched up holder. Well, coin in hand now and those scratches are on the coin.

notwilight · March 6, 2007 1:29AM

<< 

<< Is everyone in agreement that those marks are on the holder? >>

If those marks were on the coin, I would take whatever Heritage could realize for it in that holder!! >>

Glad to be able to enertainn you....

BECOKA · March 6, 2007 1:34AM

<< The person that owns the coin should have had it reholdered. Heritage is just the auctioneer. I put the onus on the seller. If he wants to sell it like that it is up to hjm. >>

Heritage stands to make more $$$$ by getting it re-holdered. The person who consigned it might not know better and if Heritage wants to make the most money out of it and possibly help the consignor they should at least give the option of sending out for re-holdering.

Cladiator · March 6, 2007 1:36AM

It's just another pea in the pod, Heritage doesn't give a rat's arse either way.

jdimmick · March 6, 2007 1:36AM

Most of what you see is on the surface of the coin.

jim

Russ · March 6, 2007 1:58AM

I now have it on good authority that most of what you're seeing in the images is NOT on the plastic.

Russ, NCNE

messydesk · March 6, 2007 1:58AM

Picture looks like crap. I'd have a hard time swallowing that it's a 65 even if half of those scratches are on the holder. Nevertheless, had this coin belonged to an Important Consignor™, they'd have had it reholdered.

coinpictures · March 6, 2007 2:32AM

65 my a$$... if it is, then my PCGS PR62 seated dollar is a 66 according to NGC standards. BLEAGH!!

Crazy4Coins · March 6, 2007 2:49AM

IMO, most of the scratches/hairlines are on the coin, with exception of a few:

vertical scratch crossing the first 8 of date is on holder,

large vertical scratch left of Liberty and scratch crossing it just above knee extending towards star 3 at a 45 deg are both on the holder, reasoning is that the shadow of the 45 deg line should lie across the large vertical as well. Since it doesn't the large vertical scratch must be on the holder as well. You can actually see the shadow of the vertical scratch and its' intersection with the 45 deg scratch just left, about the same distance as shadow left of 8 in the date.

MacCrimmon · March 6, 2007 2:51AM

<< 65 my a$$... if it is, then my PCGS PR62 seated dollar is a 66 according to NGC standards. BLEAGH!! >>

Then crack that puppy, send to NGC for that "66", and then cross it back to PCGS for a 'cross at any grade....you may get that 64...Sell that SL$, and repeat.

rec78 · March 6, 2007 3:08AM

There may be other reasons for not reslabbing it. Maybe the seller wants the proceeds right away and doesn't care, or he thinks that the amount of extra money he gets for it reslabbed is not worth the effort or that it may reslab at a lower grade. OR maybe, just maybe, a lot of the apparent scratches are on the coin. I will agree that if Heritage talked him into selling it like that then shame on them. I still say it is the owner who is responsible to reslab the coin if he wants to so. You say in the title of the thread "If I was the consignor of this coin, I'd be pi$$ed.", however i do not think that you would consign such a coin with your knowlege. You would have it reslabbed beforehand and not expect Heritage to automatically do it for you.

poorguy · March 6, 2007 3:27AM

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of those scratches ARE actually hairlines on the coin. I can see them clearly in the lower right obverse field. It may have been a deceptive decision to not reholder the coin as many people viewing the auction would also assume that the scratches are on the holder as you can plainly see many smudgy scratches on the holder as well.

Outhaul · March 6, 2007 5:58AM

Is that a faint "X" scratched on the right side (2:00-ish) obverse field?

Monstavet · March 6, 2007 6:53AM

I agree with Jim. The big one through the 8 and a couple fo the large ones in the left-hand field are likely on the holder, but a lot fo that is on the coin itself. IMHO.

stev32k · March 6, 2007 7:41AM

It's not possible to know the history behind this consignment. Maybe Heritage recommended reholdering and the owner refused for whatever reason. One thing that seems certain to me is that the coin will not bring cameo proof 65 money. The last (August, 2006) Heritage sale for a NGC PR65 cameo 1878 T$ went for $9,775. If this brings over $3,500 I'll be surprised.

Russ · March 6, 2007 7:49AM

<< If this brings over $3,500 I'll be surprised. >>

It's already over $9K.

Russ, NCNE

stev32k · March 6, 2007 7:58AM

<< 

<< If this brings over $3,500 I'll be surprised. >>

It's already over $9K.

Russ, NCNE >>

I can't see that - maybe because I'm not signed in or something. How do I see the bids? I'd like to watch this one.

Russ · March 6, 2007 8:02AM

Go to Heritage's site.

Russ, NCNE

stev32k · March 6, 2007 8:17AM

That's interesting - here's the obverse image of the same coin taken from the Heritage site. Compare this one to the ebay photo. Now I really would be pissed if it were my coin.

Russ · March 6, 2007 8:20AM

<< That's interesting - here's the obverse image of the same coin taken from the Heritage site. >>

That's one of the obverse images. The other is the same as the one on eBay.

Russ, NCNE

EagleEye · March 6, 2007 8:32AM

Most of those are hairlines.

To me it looks like one picture was made to "accent the beauty of the coin" (hide the hairlines) and the other was made quickly without regard to asthetics (and shows all the hairlines). Just shows that an in-person inspection is still important.

bushmaster8 · March 6, 2007 8:33AM

Looks like Heritage is using the

S cratched
H older
I maging
T echnology™ for the Ebay auction.

coindeuce · March 6, 2007 8:46AM

stev32k · March 6, 2007 8:51AM

At the very least I think Heritage should have offered some explanation of the differences in the two photos - which image is most accurate of the coin in hand? But I guess that is an excellent example of what people mean about not being able to grade a coin from a photograph. Those two pictures make about a $6,000 difference in the apparent value. Kinda scary.

Russ · March 6, 2007 8:54AM

<< At the very least I think Heritage should have offered some explanation of the differences in the two photos >>

Why? It's a floor auction.

Russ, NCNE

coindeuce · March 6, 2007 8:57AM

That coin looks like it belongs in one of their weekly internet auctions, along with the rest of the dreck.

stev32k · March 6, 2007 9:01AM

<< 

<< At the very least I think Heritage should have offered some explanation of the differences in the two photos >>

Why? It's a floor auction.

Russ, NCNE >>

It's also being offered on ebay

Russ · March 6, 2007 9:12AM

<< << At the very least I think Heritage should have offered some explanation of the differences in the two photos >>

Why? It's a floor auction.

Russ, NCNE >>

It's also being offered on ebay >>

This is not the type of coin that should be purchased based only on images. Since there is a floor auction where the coin can be viewed in-hand an intelligent buying decision can be made.

Russ, NCNE

stev32k · March 6, 2007 9:59AM

<< 

<< << At the very least I think Heritage should have offered some explanation of the differences in the two photos >>

Why? It's a floor auction.

Russ, NCNE >>

It's also being offered on ebay >>

This is not the type of coin that should be purchased based only on images. Since there is a floor auction where the coin can be viewed in-hand an intelligent buying decision can be made.

Russ, NCNE >>

That is a very astute observation. Thanks

Coxe · March 6, 2007 10:21AM

There appears to be a little plastic haze and a few marks that appear to be in the plastic (reflected off the coin too). Most look like hairlines. People used to wipe their proofs. You have to examine such coins in person to bid them.

notwilight · March 6, 2007 10:33AM

Here are two photos of the same coin taken with the light rotated 90 degrees...which one would you rather buy? Now the kicker, the coin looks much like the second one. You need to work very, very hard to see the hairlines in hand. --jerry

VicPortland · March 6, 2007 1:06PM

All I can say is: What a difference a photo makes.

Here are pics of a coin that I recently purchased.

The first shots are from Heritage--where the coin didn't sell (small wonder). Their images make it look like someone took a brillo pad to the surfaces.

The next shots are mine. I did not try to minimize the hairlines, but rather just used natural lighting to capture what I think are fairly accurate views of the coin.

Maybe Heritage is making an effor to show the 'worst case' coin appearance in the hopes that the buyer will then be very pleased with the actual item???

PerryHall · March 6, 2007 3:33PM

Do you guys think someone will buy this coin without first looking at it in hand or have a trusted dealer do this for them? No one buys a coin like this based strictly on a pic.

mozin · March 6, 2007 3:41PM

So, the Heritage pictures show the coin as it actually looks under two different light angles. The coin has hairlines---period.

If I was the consignor of this coin, I'd be PI$$ED.

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