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Santo better than Colavito? Come on.
RonBurgundy
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I just looked at the HOF Veterans Committee results. Santo gets 57 votes, while Rocky Colavito only gets 5? That is absurd. Santo may or may not have been a superior player to Colvaito, but even if he was a better player the gap between the two is not that large. This process is ridiculous.
Ron
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
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Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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Colavito
6 time All Star
Top 5 in MVP voting 3 times
Lead league in slugging 1958
Lead league in total bases 1959, 1962
Lead league in home runs 1959
Lead league in RBI 1965
Santo
9 time All Star
Top 5 in MVP voting twice
Lead league in on-base % 1964, 1966
5 time Gold Glove
1973 Lou Gehrig Award winner
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I am right in that? it was his last time on the ballot?
Perhaps Colavito has other chances? In any event I would pick Santo over the Rock but not by that margin either.
I also agree Hodges should be in already.
i was pleased to see how well kaat did. maybe one day...........
Steve
"I know my numbers, they can't take them away from me. I don't want to tell you I don't want to be there, because I should be there. It's hard to make a group of people change their minds, or whatever. Check the records: 'If he's there, why isn't he there?'
I believe that history and fan support is a greater force than the Hall Of Fame. The fans already support and remember Hodges, and Santo, and Colavito, and many others. Buck O'Neill was in our own hall of fame for many years before he passed and was given some pitifull and posthumous recognition from baseball. The Hall Of Fame is a great idea and a great place to visit and the list of it's members is impressive but it is not the be all end all. And like Tiant says, nobody can take away a player's career numbers and personal achievements, these are recorded for all time in the record books and indelibly marked in our hearts and minds. Thanks but no thanks veteran's commitee, I'll make up my own mind on this one.
<< <i>I for one like the exclusivity of the HOF. It is reserved for the best of the best. It's not like football where they are electing 6 - 9 each year. >>
Football is 3-6 per year. Plus, they have 52 guys on a roster versus 25 for baseball, and 2 more teams in the league. Plus the average football career is probably much shorter. Not to mention essentially 22 positions versus 15 for baseball (8position, 5 pitchers, 2 other).
So its not as different as it seems.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I for one like the exclusivity of the HOF. It is reserved for the best of the best. It's not like football where they are electing 6 - 9 each year. >>
Football is 3-6 per year. Plus, they have 52 guys on a roster versus 25 for baseball, and 2 more teams in the league. Plus the average football career is probably much shorter. Not to mention essentially 22 positions versus 15 for baseball (8position, 5 pitchers, 2 other).
So its not as different as it seems. >>
Text
Well...Seeing how all 52 or 25 guys do not play it's closer than you think. 8 everyday players plus a starting rotation makes 13 "starters" for baseball and of course in football it is 11 "starters" per team.
Football has inducted 7 or more players 10 times with the most recent in 2001. As for baseball the most was the original class of 5 in 1936 with 4 being inducted twice, most recently in 1955.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Ron Santo an excellent ballplayer? Of course.
Hall of Famer? No.
Either way I agree about the Veterns clamping down on the voting
...such as Phil Rizzuto.
compiling nearly 1600 hits! and an impressive .272 average.
yeah, he really deserves to be in the HOF.
<bring on the yankee fans!>
"Molon Labe"
Honestly if he was anyone but Ron Santo he probably would have made it in on weak ballot year or veteran selection. But since he is Ron Santo he gets hammered as the guy who could never get hit when it mattered, only able to get RBI's when it didnt matter, the 69 Cub debacle, lack of leadership and general pandering for the sympathy vote.
<< <i>I believe that history and fan support is a greater force than the Hall Of Fame. The fans already support and remember Hodges, and Santo, and Colavito, and many others. Buck O'Neill was in our own hall of fame for many years before he passed and was given some pitifull and posthumous recognition from baseball. The Hall Of Fame is a great idea and a great place to visit and the list of it's members is impressive but it is not the be all end all. And like Tiant says, nobody can take away a player's career numbers and personal achievements, these are recorded for all time in the record books and indelibly marked in our hearts and minds. Thanks but no thanks veteran's commitee, I'll make up my own mind on this one. >>
Well put
In re Puckett...I don't begrudge him his inclusion, but I really think that the fact that Mattingly's stats are so close to his and their careers are so parallel, that it really smarts to have Donnie Baseball (a name that Puckett gave him, IIRC, just to finish the analogy with a flourish) being stuck outside on a "Good but not great" basis.
there are tons of players that should get in the Hall, and we all have our opinions as to who. i stated in the other thread that i believe Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker should be side by side as they were for 18 seasons turning more DP's together than anyone in history (and yes, that 78T card is a Trammell rookie!! Molitor was a glorified DH, with 3000 hits and a .306 BA). well, kinda kidding on that last part.....
so yeah, let's turn this into a thread where we fight for our favorites and curse the fallacies like Bruce Sutter?!??!?!
The two rings for Puckett sure helped his cause
I've been through numerous examples of such on here, and those debates are exhausting(mainly because fans want to see their guy get recognized, and it is hard to blame them when some other guy is in who is a smidge better, or maybe even a smidge or more lower).
While it is true that the fans remember the guys who haven't been voted in, there isn't denying the fact that they still aren't looked at in the same light as a member of the HOF(a member who often times isn't any better). Player A always has "Hall of Famer" attached to his name, while player B....
I don't want to use specific examples of players...done that enough, almost to the point where I'm not sure if I ever want to do a HOF debate again.
The HOF is a great baseball museum, but really falls short in their attempt to bestow honors on the right players. It really isn't fair, to do what they do. They certainly don't have a very consisten track record.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing all these guys who are talked about so much on here, be inducted. They are being championed by a lot of fans for a reason, and that reason may be worthwhile enough for future generations to know that man existed a long time ago, and they should be recognized too. A lot of these guys aren't as far away from the immortals as many think, adn they are certainly close to many of hte current HOFers.