Will the stamp scandal curtail your Ebay buying?

RedTiger · February 27, 2007 1:14AM

Already mentioned here is the Ebay stamp fraud scandal
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17171372/
link

Will this kind of news change your Ebay coin buying habits? There have been several recent posts about buying altered, enhanced or counterfeit raw coins on Ebay. Also the widely publicized case on this board of toning a coin inside an old rattler holder.

bluespaceant · February 27, 2007 1:21AM

Lakesammman · February 27, 2007 1:25AM

I'm skeptical of raw and certified coins.

notwilight · February 27, 2007 1:54AM

First I'd heard about it but in general, calling a scam an "Ebay scam" is keyword spamming. Ebay is very popular and attracts readership. This scam had nothing to do with the Ebay process and in fact, ocurred both on and off ebay. It was just a scammer selling fakes. The fact is there are more scammers OFF ebay than ON. But posse members can't search for the Ebay variety of scum late at night from their office or bedroom...We should feel safer that it is so easy for posse members to point out the scammers and bust them rather than be more afraid.

--Jerry

notwilight · February 27, 2007 1:55AM

BTW, you don't have an answer "No, buying on Ebay is safer than buying off ebay."

Connecticoin · February 27, 2007 2:02AM

Well, once the certified stamp market develops legs, the scammers can switch to a self-slabbing stamps operation, which would be more difficult, if not impossible to take down.

mrearlygold · February 27, 2007 2:05AM

Wow

RedTiger · February 27, 2007 3:07AM

<< <i>First I'd heard about it but in general, calling a scam an "Ebay scam" is keyword spamming. Ebay is very popular and attracts readership. This scam had nothing to do with the Ebay process and in fact, ocurred both on and off ebay. It was just a scammer selling fakes. The fact is there are more scammers OFF ebay than ON. But posse members can't search for the Ebay variety of scum late at night from their office or bedroom...We should feel safer that it is so easy for posse members to point out the scammers and bust them rather than be more afraid.

--Jerry >>

All of the cases I cited involved selling on Ebay. If that doesn't warrant Ebay in the subject line, almost nothing does. I have in the past and will again point out that there are problem coins available in almost all venues. If a person thinks buying a raw coin off Ebay is safer than buying a raw coin at a coin show, they are certainly entitled to that opinion, but it is not one that I share. Magazine ads with raw coins at low ball prices, probably rate about the same as Ebay.

The frightening part of the story to me, is that the stamp scam has been so well researched and documented. The scammer has probably made millions, and yet nothing can be done, has been done, other than making the person get new IDs. A case against a coin doctor can probably never be as solid as the case against this stamp guy. The scammer is practically operating in the open, and sticking out his tongue while he cashes check after hefty check.

ziggy29 · February 27, 2007 3:14AM

No -- the moon money being thrown at decent classic coins with reasonable eye appeal is doing that for me already.

RedTiger · February 27, 2007 3:15AM

Let me add that if a magazine discovered an advertiser selling altered items such as described in the article, they would almost certainly get the boot, and any future ads from that area of the country would be given close scrutiny before being run. If that kind of scammer tried selling such goods over such a long period of time at shows, they would be run out on a rail or worse. In my opinion, it is the distance and impersonal nature of Ebay that is most conducive to this particularly insidious kind of scammer.

notwilight · February 27, 2007 3:30AM

Red Tiger,
I wasn't clear. I'm fine with your subject line. It was the article that I was accusing of keyword spamming.

--jerry

Coxe · February 27, 2007 3:49AM

Prosecution for counnterfeit or altered coins would probably be easier with the equivalent evidence. By alteration, I mean date, mintmark, that sort of thing. Dipping, cleaning and that stuff would not be prosecutable as there is not legal status for it and they actually have historical precedents where it was encouraged and accepted. Accelerated toning also is a no win situation. It would come down to proving the exact circumstances and that they were not simply storage preference: a century in a bag in a damp vault or a few months wrapped in tissue paper stacked on the window sill.

It always comes down to the same things for collectibles. There is no substitute for in close inspection and your risk is inversely proportional to your expertise. Online sources naturally admit significant risk in the former by their nature.

The nice thing about vatiety collecting is that a keen eye and understanding of unique details makes it hard to fall for the alteration and counterfeit scams. The one that almost got me was someone apparently intentionally marring the holder of a certified coin in a way to make it appear that the holder marks were coin features. Saw that twice. One was a far from believable tail bar 1890-CC Morgan.

fishcooker · February 27, 2007 4:51AM

Ebays a garage sale. Go beyond that at your own peril.

flaminio · February 27, 2007 5:42AM

This is why I only buy slabbed stamps.

Waitaminute -- scratch that, I don't buy stamps at all. Dropped out years ago when the deluge of commems became overwhelming. The nail in the philatelic coffin was the switch to self adhesive stamps. If I can't hinge 'em, I can't collect 'em, and so my stamp binder has sat on the shelf untouched for decades.

combatmailman · February 27, 2007 5:59AM

No I am just more cautious when purchasing a coin off ebay out of a slab, would much prefer a slab to at least verify authenticity.

19Lyds · February 27, 2007 6:17AM

<< <i>Will they someday write about the Coin Posse? >>

You gotta come up with a catchy acronym first and then catch some big time crook with his/her hands in the till. Pam Donnelly comes to mind (aka Savannah Scammer) but that didn't generate a whole lot of news. It just pissed her and Jim off!

Will the stamp scandal curtail your Ebay buying?

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