My first Capped Bust Half Dime

walkerminus1 · February 19, 2007 10:52PM

Ok, so I picked up my first one last night, no pics or scans, will try to do that later to get thoughts.

It is an 1837 Anacs EF 45 large 5, LM5 die marriage. The first thing I did, before taking the coin out of the store, had the guy bust it out of the case. Tonight, I will be studying the coin and admiring my purchase. Maybe this weekend I will get some pictures up for some real professional opinions from this forum's members. Until then, if it really were an EF 45, about what would have been a fair price? I trust the dealer I got it from, but sometimes wonder if I'm paying a huge premium for the knowledge he is imparting on me.

Rob

1/92 CBHD

1/123 CBHD remarriages

I believe I will have a few people saying there is only 91 or 122...hmmm.

Barndog · February 19, 2007 11:01PM

congratulations on your purchase! Regarding the 91/92 and 122/123 thing -- some people haven't updated their numbers to include the newly-discovered 1835 LM-12, that's all. Full retail would be $150-$180 for an XF-45 coin, IMO.

Dennis88 · February 19, 2007 11:15PM

walkerminus1 · February 19, 2007 11:32PM

<< congratulations on your purchase! Regarding the 91/92 and 122/123 thing -- some people haven't updated their numbers to include the newly-discovered 1835 LM-12, that's all. Full retail would be $150-$180 for an XF-45 coin, IMO. >>

So here is a dumb question for you. Newly-discovered die marriage, what is the possibility of a newly discovered die? It seems like it would be possible. If a die marriage can go unnoticed for over 170 years, couldn't a die?

Also, how do you guys cherry pick these things? Wouldn't most every coin dealer be aware enough to know and look for rare die marriages?

Rob

I believe I will only be able to get a few of these a year until my kids are older...but it's not a race right?

Dennis88 · February 19, 2007 11:46PM

<< 

<< congratulations on your purchase! Regarding the 91/92 and 122/123 thing -- some people haven't updated their numbers to include the newly-discovered 1835 LM-12, that's all. Full retail would be $150-$180 for an XF-45 coin, IMO. >>

So here is a dumb question for you. Newly-discovered die marriage, what is the possibility of a newly discovered die? It seems like it would be possible. If a die marriage can go unnoticed for over 170 years, couldn't a die?

Also, how do you guys cherry pick these things? Wouldn't most every coin dealer be aware enough to know and look for rare die marriages?

Rob

I believe I will only be able to get a few of these a year until my kids are older...but it's not a race right? >>

Most dealers don't have or don't want to take the time, leaving cherrypicks certainly possible

Dennis

Cladiator · February 20, 2007 12:26AM

Congrats on the new pick up...the addiction is soon to follow

The correct numbers are indeed 92 and 123. If anyone tells you differently just smile and politely say "ok" as you laugh inside. I agree with Barndogs pricing assesment for an XF45 coin, maybe $200 max. You'll see them sell for more but remember it could be the die marriage or die state demanding that premium. You'll also see examples that sell higher if they are extremely eye appealing or ones that folks may think they can "score" an upgrade on.

As for cherrypicking...

I'd say about 5% of coin dealers actually try and attribute their half dimes. To most it's not worth their time, or so they think (which is fine by me). Remember just because a dealer has LMsomething written on the 2x2 doesn't mean that coin is what it says for sure. The only persons attribution you can trust is your own.

rhedden · February 20, 2007 12:56AM

Remember just because a dealer has LMsomething written on the 2x2 doesn't mean that coin is what it says for sure.

If it says R5 or R6 or R7 on the holder, and nobody has bought it yet, you'd better take a real good look at the attribution. I see tons of dealer mistakes on Bust coin attribution at shows, and they frequently go the dealer's way in terms of price. The ones that were marked R1 and were actually R6 are usually cherry picked rather quickly, leaving the overpriced, misattributed ones lurking on the tables. Another good ruse is when the coin was considered R5 in 1977, and is marked R5, despite having been lowered to an R3- in the mean time.

Barndog · February 20, 2007 1:04AM

<< 

<< congratulations on your purchase! Regarding the 91/92 and 122/123 thing -- some people haven't updated their numbers to include the newly-discovered 1835 LM-12, that's all. Full retail would be $150-$180 for an XF-45 coin, IMO. >>

So here is a dumb question for you. Newly-discovered die marriage, what is the possibility of a newly discovered die? It seems like it would be possible. If a die marriage can go unnoticed for over 170 years, couldn't a die?

Also, how do you guys cherry pick these things? Wouldn't most every coin dealer be aware enough to know and look for rare die marriages?

Rob

I believe I will only be able to get a few of these a year until my kids are older...but it's not a race right? >>

you are right, it is not a race. We all have the rest of our lives to complete a set of die marriages and remarriages in a grade that satisfies our personal preferences. I think too that it is possible that there is an undiscovered die marriage out there that features a die not yet seen. We'll more likely see a newly discovered die marriage that results from a mating between known dies, but I would not rule out discovery of a new obverse or a new reverse!

If you frequent a few dealers who are generalists, don't let them know you are seeking rare die marriages, otherwise they will be afraid to sell anything to you (many dealers are this way, but not all). If you wish to be able to cherrypick half dimes, I would recommend you look at more than half dimes every time you visit your favorite dealers. Look at dimes, halves, quarters, maybe even some 20th century stuff. Don't carry your book out in the open either! Poker face is important too

walkerminus1 · February 20, 2007 3:55AM

Cool. Thanks for the comments. I know I won't be able to cherrypick any from the dealer in town as he is considered the authority on Capped Bust Half Dollars and he is a half-dime collector as well. I don't think he's going to attribute anything incorrectly or let a rare one slip by unnoticed. In fact, I think he was one of the people that helped confirm the recently found die marriage for the 1835 half dime.

I didn't think he was overcharging me for this coin, but I'm glad I asked for this forums opinion on it. I plan on staying in the VF to XF range and look forward to my next purchase. Hopefully he'll give me as good of deal as he did on this. I'll try to post pictures soon.

Rob

I believe I have another coin on hold but can't get it until next month.

Barndog · February 20, 2007 4:04AM

you may consider joining the bust coin forum, which is here: FORUM

MrHalfDime · February 20, 2007 4:15AM

"what is the possibility of a newly discovered die? It seems like it would be possible. If a die marriage can go unnoticed for over 170 years, couldn't a die?"

As has been said many times before, there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers. I will try not to make this a dumb answer.

You are quite correct that a new, never before seen die is just as likely to be discovered as a new die marriage involving known dies. Consider the 1800 LM-4/V4 Draped Bust half dime, discovered by Ed Price in 1994. Not only had this die marriage never been seen before, but the reverse die had eluded discovery for nearly 200 years until an astute and detail oriented Mr. Price saw what others had not. There is always the possibility of discovering a new die marriage, or even a new die, in any of the early Federal issues. One must simply remain vigilent, keep your eyes wide open, and above all else, always attribute both sides of the coin; resist the urge to be lazy and attribute using only the key pick up points on just one side. You could miss a new die marriage by simply not looking closely.

Cladiator · February 20, 2007 4:23AM

<< In fact, I think he was one of the people that helped confirm the recently found die marriage for the 1835 half dime. >>

If your "dealer" was one of them guys then just tell him that Barndog, Cladiator and Mr.HalfDime says for him to give you a break on the price

Barndog · February 20, 2007 4:36AM

I think we just figured out who your dealer is. If the conclusion is right, I sure don't think you will get the chance to cherrypick him! But if you do, we all want to read about it!

walkerminus1 · February 20, 2007 4:38AM

<< 

<< In fact, I think he was one of the people that helped confirm the recently found die marriage for the 1835 half dime. >>

If your "dealer" was one of them guys then just tell him that Barndog, Cladiator and Mr.HalfDime says for him to give you a break on the price

>>

I already know my "dealer" is familiar with Mr.HalfDime, but I will ask him about you and the Barndog. Well, am I more likely to get a discount if he thinks we're buddy buddy or would I be better served financially to keep my mouth shut?

Barndog · February 20, 2007 4:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< In fact, I think he was one of the people that helped confirm the recently found die marriage for the 1835 half dime. >>

If your "dealer" was one of them guys then just tell him that Barndog, Cladiator and Mr.HalfDime says for him to give you a break on the price

>>

I already know my "dealer" is familiar with Mr.HalfDime, but I will ask him about you and the Barndog. Well, am I more likely to get a discount if he thinks we're buddy buddy or would I be better served financially to keep my mouth shut? >>

If you are buying at Coins+ you would be best served by learning everything you have the chance to learn about bust coinage. The proprietor certainly knows his stuff. If you pursue the half dimes by die marriage and remarriage, he is an excellent source to help you out.

Cladiator · February 20, 2007 4:47AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< In fact, I think he was one of the people that helped confirm the recently found die marriage for the 1835 half dime. >>

If your "dealer" was one of them guys then just tell him that Barndog, Cladiator and Mr.HalfDime says for him to give you a break on the price

>>

I already know my "dealer" is familiar with Mr.HalfDime, but I will ask him about you and the Barndog. Well, am I more likely to get a discount if he thinks we're buddy buddy or would I be better served financially to keep my mouth shut? >>

If you are buying at Coins+ you would be best served by learning everything you have the chance to learn about bust coinage. The proprietor certainly knows his stuff. If you pursue the half dimes by die marriage and remarriage, he is an excellent source to help you out. >>

Exactly. If your dealer is B.K. my suggestion to you is to absorb as much information as physically possible from him. You can do no better. Also, if that's him then pay whatever he is asking for a half dime...he will not steer you wrong and if it's priced high there's a reason for it.

Barndog · February 20, 2007 4:50AM

"hmmm, Brad, can you do a bit better on that price?"

walkerminus1 · February 20, 2007 4:51AM

<< Also, if that's him then pay whatever he is asking for a half dime...he will not steer you wrong and if it's priced high there's a reason for it.

>>

Conversely, if it's priced low, is there a reason for that as well???

Cladiator · February 20, 2007 4:53AM

<< 

<< Also, if that's him then pay whatever he is asking for a half dime...he will not steer you wrong and if it's priced high there's a reason for it.

>>

Conversely, if it's priced low, is there a reason for that as well??? >>

Most likely but that reason could be anything from damage, common, less than eye appealing or he just likes you

walkerminus1 · February 20, 2007 5:23AM

Yeah, you guys have figured out who it is. I'll tell him that you all agree and that he needs to give me a discount whenever I buy anything from him. He always gives my 10-year-old daughter a good discount, but I think he typically tacks the discount onto my bill. Is he usually sneaky like that?

Rob

I believe if I ever cherrypick one from Brad, I'll either have a good time sharing the information with you all, or blackmailing him, whichever sounds better at the time.

Barndog · February 20, 2007 5:25AM

you are figuring him out nicely

Cladiator · February 20, 2007 5:28AM

Another clear example of my theory that Brad is involved somehow in every half dime story ever told. Six degrees of Brad

OKbustchaser · February 20, 2007 7:23AM

<< 
I believe if I ever cherrypick one from Brad, I'll either have a good time sharing the information with you all, or blackmailing him, whichever sounds better at the time. >>

If you ever cherrypick one from Brad let us know....he'll NEVER live it down!

My first Capped Bust Half Dime

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