Here is one you don't see all the time...

Bruceswar · February 16, 2007 9:09PM

OK sure we see toners all the time, but when was the last time you saw a really pretty worn out buffalo nickel? Here is one that is F-12 and a nice toner. Enjoy this 100% NT coin.

Georgems65 · February 16, 2007 9:37PM

Thats a very nice coin. Are you sure that it is NT?????

Bruceswar · February 16, 2007 9:38PM

100% sure it is NT

Georgems65 · February 16, 2007 9:42PM

if thats the case very nice coin

Bruceswar · February 16, 2007 9:45PM

It is a nice coin even if it is lower grade circ coin. I want someone to show me another one like it. Please

Animalkeeper · February 16, 2007 10:47PM

Please explain how you can be sure it is 100% NT.

It is a nice looking coin BTW but too many threads here have convinced me that there is such a thing as aNT (artificial NT) or maybe nAT (natural AT).

nankraut · February 16, 2007 10:53PM

<< 100% sure it is NT >>

What factual, foolproof evidence do you have that it's NT? Sure looks like a "cook job" to me.

pharmer · February 16, 2007 11:34PM

Impossible to know for a fact. You can be sure, of course, but you can't know. You can only opine.

BRdude · February 16, 2007 11:35PM

<< Please explain how you can be sure it is 100% NT. >>

I've seen a whitman folder full of ones that looked just like that. I don't doubt a bit it is NT.

JRocco · February 17, 2007 12:56AM

A worn coin would not have those nice concentric toning bands if left to tone on its own naturally---this one was "helped" to look like this in my opinion. The metal on the worn coin would cause a different toning pattern.
It is nice and pretty though

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 17, 2007 5:15AM

hurrah for albums!

xphobe · February 17, 2007 5:40AM

<< Impossible to know for a fact. You can be sure, of course, but you can't know. You can only opine. >>

He could know, if it was his.

pharmer · February 17, 2007 5:45AM

Think it through.

mirabela · February 17, 2007 5:51AM

<< A worn coin would not have those nice concentric toning bands if left to tone on its own naturally---this one was "helped" to look like this in my opinion. The metal on the worn coin would cause a different toning pattern. >>

NONSENSE! I have a cousin who collected coins from circulation throughout his childhood with my great grandfather as a mentor. Every Friday afternoon they would bring rolls upon rolls home from the bank, and over the years he filled albums -- Whitman and Mehrig slide albums -- with complete sets of practically everything from Barbers forward. I don't think he ever got a 1916 SLQ, but he got just about *everything* else. I have not seen his sets since I was about eleven (20+ years ago) but a good many of his coins looked like that then, and they have certainly never been messed with in any way.

Somewhere in my cousin's attic is a collection that would make many of us here piss ourselves if we saw it.

DieClash · February 17, 2007 5:51AM

Myqqy · February 17, 2007 6:17AM

That buffalo doesn't look nt to me, but that's just me- I usually don't like heavily circulated coins with intense purples and the like...

JRocco · February 17, 2007 6:32AM

<< 

<< A worn coin would not have those nice concentric toning bands if left to tone on its own naturally---this one was "helped" to look like this in my opinion. The metal on the worn coin would cause a different toning pattern. >>

NONSENSE! I have a cousin who collected coins from circulation throughout his childhood with my great grandfather as a mentor. Every Friday afternoon they would bring rolls upon rolls home from the bank, and over the years he filled albums -- Whitman and Mehrig slide albums -- with complete sets of practically everything from Barbers forward. I don't think he ever got a 1916 SLQ, but he got just about *everything* else. I have not seen his sets since I was about eleven (20+ years ago) but a good many of his coins looked like that then, and they have certainly never been messed with in any way.

Somewhere in my cousin's attic is a collection that would make many of us here piss ourselves if we saw it. >>

I respect your opinion mirabela, I just think your opinion is nonsense to me.
I hold by my thoughts on this coin.

Mercury10c · February 17, 2007 7:05AM

<< Please explain how you can be sure it is 100% NT. >>

Because he did it himself, naturally!

Bruceswar · February 17, 2007 9:05AM

<< Please explain how you can be sure it is 100% NT.

It is a nice looking coin BTW but too many threads here have convinced me that there is such a thing as aNT (artificial NT) or maybe nAT (natural AT). >>

I originally got this coin back in 1991. The coin was silver colored. It was sitting in a holder for years in a safe. Over the years the color got to how it is. I took the coin out in like 2003 when I noticed it had got colors.

Edited to add:

This was a cardboard year set holder. One of each type from 1935. It was in a plastic case after that.

BRdude · February 17, 2007 12:36PM

<< << A worn coin would not have those nice concentric toning bands if left to tone on its own naturally---this one was "helped" to look like this in my opinion. The metal on the worn coin would cause a different toning pattern. >> >>

Say WHAT???? I have several albums, some with UNC coins, some with worn coins.. Admittadly they aren't toninig exactly like this one, (yet) but it hasn't been 15 years, only about 6, but they are however all toning about the same. Only difference is on the UNC coins, the toning seems to drift into the center of the coin a little more but on the circulated ones, it is only around the rims. We'll see in another 10 years or so. I have no doubt this is album toning, about at it's finest. I put these sets together in late 2000, early 2001 after visiting one of my local dealers who had just bought a whitman of buffs, he proudly said "take a look at these" and they were all toned just about like this one, some nearly covering the entire coin. Since then, mine have been safely in my safe. Awaiting the outcome

JRocco · February 17, 2007 1:14PM

<< 

<< << A worn coin would not have those nice concentric toning bands if left to tone on its own naturally---this one was "helped" to look like this in my opinion. The metal on the worn coin would cause a different toning pattern. >> >>

Say WHAT???? I have several albums, some with UNC coins, some with worn coins.. Admittadly they aren't toninig exactly like this one, (yet) but it hasn't been 15 years, only about 6, but they are however all toning about the same. Only difference is on the UNC coins, the toning seems to drift into the center of the coin a little more but on the circulated ones, it is only around the rims. We'll see in another 10 years or so. I have no doubt this is album toning, about at it's finest. I put these sets together in late 2000, early 2001 after visiting one of my local dealers who had just bought a whitman of buffs, he proudly said "take a look at these" and they were all toned just about like this one, some nearly covering the entire coin. Since then, mine have been safely in my safe. Awaiting the outcome

>>

Can you show me a pic of any of them so I can see how similar or dis-similar ("Admittadly they aren't toninig exactly like this one, (yet)") they are?

JRocco · February 18, 2007 12:54AM

Can anyone ...mirabela or BRdude...show me a pic of a circulated Buff that looks like this....anyone???
Just one pic to help me understand that a circulated Buff can tone like this---see the toning over the word LIBERTY...
I would like to understand this a little better.

pharmer · February 18, 2007 1:02AM

<< 

<< Please explain how you can be sure it is 100% NT.

It is a nice looking coin BTW but too many threads here have convinced me that there is such a thing as aNT (artificial NT) or maybe nAT (natural AT). >>

I originally got this coin back in 1991. The coin was silver colored. It was sitting in a holder for years in a safe. Over the years the color got to how it is. I took the coin out in like 2003 when I noticed it had got colors.

Edited to add:

This was a cardboard year set holder. One of each type from 1935. It was in a plastic case after that. >>

Then the reverse should be similar. Let us see it. After all, you did say

<< I want someone to show me another one like it. Please >>

The reverse ought to qualify, right?

JRocco · February 18, 2007 1:16AM

One needs to just look at the word LIBERTY...

BRdude....mirabela....can you help with a pic to prove I am talking nonsense----just ONE little itty bitty example would do....

DesertRat · February 18, 2007 1:32AM

Honestly, with all the things I've seen and read here on what an expert doctor can do to a coin I don't believe anyone can 100% be certain of anything anymore when it comes to toning.

Regardless of AT or NT it is a nice looking Buff that I would be happy to have in my collection if it were mine.

Thanks for sharing

Type2 · February 18, 2007 1:35AM

NT or AT it looks Nice if he like's it.So be it.

and I know what you are saying

BRdude · February 18, 2007 1:41AM

<< Can you show me a pic of any of them so I can see how similar or dis-similar ("Admittadly they aren't toninig exactly like this one, (yet)") they are? >>

I said they aren't toning like that one is, not with irridescant colors (yet)

<< BRdude....mirabela....can you help with a pic to prove I am talking nonsense----just ONE little itty bitty example would do.... >>

I don't have means to post a pic or I would be glad to. I never said you were talking nonsense, I merely disagree with you like you did mirabela. I myself don't believe that to be an AT pattern of toning as I have seen them toned like that before. JMHO

JRocco · February 18, 2007 1:59AM

Hey BRdude- I appreciate your response knowing that I can get a little obnoxious at times (just don't repeat that

)
I am not saying that Bruceswar did anything suspicious to this coin first off.
As I have been told by some real top numismatists--album toning takes time and moves across the surface of the metal. When it moves across a nice open field it travels if you will in a nice concentric way, but when it hits a device--like a letter--- it now has to move UP and OVER and AROUND that device as it progresses. Normally it would not show such a nice concentric toning band when viewed from above.
Here are some nice examples of album toning as an example---I know these are silver pieces, but the basic oxidation/toning process is broadly similar.

Notice how the devices show a DEFLECTION of the toning pattern?
The more wear on a coin the less symmetry on the color breaks also due to the UNEVENNESS if you will of the worn metal.
I hope I am making sense here and just want to help some of our younger members know what to look for and what to avoid.

I hope some REAL toning pro's could jump in to agree OR disagree with my thoughts.

pharmer · February 18, 2007 2:03AM

Did the coin come with a reverse? May we see it?

BRdude · February 18, 2007 2:12AM

Nice half JRocco. That looks like NT to me too

BUT

I have seen coins that are toned all the way across, fields, lettering, design and all. Look at my icon. I don't question what you are saying at all, the proof is in the pic, but I think NT has a way of forming different ways in different situations. Where it is stored, what is around it, environmental factors, etc.

edited to add, I didn't take your post as being meant to be obnoxious at all JR

BRdude · February 18, 2007 2:16AM

<< Did the coin come with a reverse? May we see it? >>

I would like to see it too, but I wonder, what SHOULD it look like?? Could it be totally untoned?? Maybe toned like the obverse?? Just wondering...

mirabela · February 18, 2007 2:48AM

JRocco -- recall that the set I have in mind has been out of my access for 25 years, so I will be unable to provide pics. But I can tell you that there were coins with similar concentric rings of color, and that many of them were circulated, with most of those from pre-1930 being heavily so. Not too long ago, too, I pirated a few coins out of an album set of heavily circulated SLQ's with rings not dissimilar to that ... granted they are silver coins and this buffalo is CN, but you get the point. Merely being circulated does not necessarily preclude this. You might also be interested to see a PCGS OGH VG10 1795 Flowing Hair half recently sold by MrD (Greattoning) for board member Cape, which although heavily circulated had some of the most spectacular bands of album color I have ever seen on a coin. It can happen.

As for the reverse -- anyone with any experience with those little cardboard & plastic 5- or 6-coin year sets knows that the obverse and reverse do not always do the same thing. I have handled lots and lots of those things -- mostly early 60's US or Canadian year sets -- and there's a felt side and a smooth side to the holder, and the coins often come out looking markedly different. The felt (top) side is usually where the magic is. I recently sold a board member a 64 Kennedy out of one of them, for instance, just a normal choice BU coin except for the striking rainbow colors on the obverse. The reverse just had golden brown rim toning. I have seen many, many examples of this.

Bottom line, I guess, is that coin doctors are very good and they've got us justifiably nervous and doubtful -- but they do what they do in the first place because the various holders, albums, cabinets, tissue paper, and all the other storage means in use over the years can and do produce some very amazing "natural" toning on coins.

Now that I've said all of that -- as before, if you don't trust it, don't buy it. I would never counsel otherwise.

dizzyfoxx · February 18, 2007 3:07AM

I question that one...

JRocco · February 18, 2007 9:49AM

Hey mirabela, thanks for the reply. The rest of you guys too.

Louis · February 18, 2007 10:09AM

roadrunner · February 18, 2007 10:22AM

If that toning on "Liberty" was done by nature, it would vary between the letters. And from the photo, that strong coloration is not present in the fields between those letters.

The order of the colors is in the proper progression as well: yellow, magenta, cyan (blue-green)...repeat.

On some bag toned Morgans, you will see that rainbow toning pattern move right across a single relief area such as the face, neck
or field. Therefore I don't know why it would be impossible for that pattern to show up on lettering with the same relief. Overall it does seem to show many of the characteristics of air transfer toning.

Now if you can spot that rainbow coloration in the recesses of
"Liberty" then that would support a liquid or gas type toning applied.
Who has the skill to paint those letters in that fashion without painting the areas around it in a similar fashion?

roadrunner

Bruceswar · February 23, 2007 4:22PM

<<

>>

This is not a shake a bake job.... 100% NT Roadrunner is right. I will get a reverse shot up soon.

bestclser1 · February 23, 2007 4:28PM

NT in my opinion

Bruceswar · February 23, 2007 9:31PM

Sorry for the blurry image but here goes...

Bruceswar · February 24, 2007 6:31AM

any comments now seeing the reverse?

darktone · February 24, 2007 7:28AM

you guy's are questioning this coin that a forum member who has owned and seen the toning take place over several years? but believe all those so called bag toned morgan are real? or those classic coins that have been dipped long ago and get a cool looking second tone after placed in an album?
As for me I say nice coin Bruce and cool NT toning! I sold a well circulated 32-D to a forum member a cuple of years ago with some nice color- I'll see if I can find some pictures of it. mike

darktone · February 24, 2007 7:32AM

Here is one you don't see all the time...

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