1855 2 1/2 Gold - PCGS "Alter Surfaces" - Can you see evidence?

Windycity · February 15, 2007 10:49AM

Okay, I posted this coin a couple weeks back and said I was sending to PCGS for grading. Just got the results and PCGS say "altered surfaces." I am not a gold expert by any means but I interpret this to mean it is not counterfeit but has altered surfaces. I just can't see what they are seeing that I am apparently missing. Anyone's help on this would be appreciated.

Goldbully · February 15, 2007 10:53AM

Looks beautiful to me....but, I have no grading background.......YET!!!!!

Can't wait to get the lowdown.

sinin1 · February 15, 2007 10:59AM

a coin with that much detail should have cartwheel luster - does not look like it

by the way, PCGS did not say coin was authentic

you may need to send to ANACS or NCS to determine if authentic

raw gold sucks for most collectors - hopefully just a couple hundred dollar lesson

DaveG · February 15, 2007 11:03AM

According to the PCGS Grading Guide (1st edition), "altered surfaces" could include: 1) rubbing "nose grease" on the coin to dull shiny spots on the high points of the coin that may represent wear; 2) "Thumbing" - a similar technique ; 3) applying dental wax or auto body putty; or, 4) whizzing.

Other than whizzing (visible at certain angles), I'm not sure any of these techniques could be detected from an image.

Ronyahski · February 15, 2007 11:09AM

There is some discoloration in the obverse field where the marks are prevelant. Could this be an area of thumbing in order to try to hide the marks?

Trime · February 15, 2007 11:09AM

Looks "polished" Shiny without luster.

DeusExMachina · February 15, 2007 11:25AM

I think PCGS has been very tough on gold recently. I cracked out a quarter eagle (PCGS OGH) and submitted it--PCGS said it was cleaned. The coin is completely original and I have no idea what would lead them to believe its been cleaned. I guess its time to resubmit.

Your QE has some uneven skin which might be the result of an old cleaning. But I don't mind the look and am not 100% certain its been cleaned. Wait awhile and try it again.

darktone · February 15, 2007 11:35AM

on the obverse- what's that mark between the 5th and 6th star? What are those dark spots on the reverse? Did someone try to cover up an ex-jewelery piece?

Windycity · February 15, 2007 11:42AM

Dark spots on reverse are very light natural spotting which I decided not to attempt to clean because the surfaces appeared so original... no evidence what so ever of any jewelery markings. The photo is very accruate and represents the color, luster and condition of the coin.

REALGATOR · February 15, 2007 12:12PM

From the photos, It looks like MS63+ details, but where's the luster? Lack of luster means somethin funky goin on.

I would take it to the next major coin show in your area to a get a consensus of (hopefully) expert opinions.

-RG

roadrunner · February 15, 2007 12:24PM

I think the photo is tending to "hide" the luster. There is plenty of it on the figures.

I had a similar experience when cracking out a MS64 $10 Lib from an NGC holder. The coin appeared to be a no brainer MS65. Upon resubmission to NGC they graded it "altered surfaces." PCGS saw the coin next and said the same thing. Yet I've shown the coin to a few top gold wholesalers and they could not identify the problem.
Cartwheel luster is strong, no evidence of wiping lines, etc.

roadrunner

1855 2 1/2 Gold - PCGS "Alter Surfaces" - Can you see evidence?

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1855 2 1/2 Gold - PCGS &quot;Alter Surfaces&quot; - Can you see evidence?

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1855 2 1/2 Gold - PCGS "Alter Surfaces" - Can you see evidence?