Your picture makes the mark look around 50 times better. With the coin in hand there is this big brown ugly mark. Retrospectively there is a mark present on the listing when the image is enlarged but there is no clue that there is a huge brown discoloration.
If I can't work things out with seller, and it doesn't appear that way, I'll contact PCGS and see what they can do. I just became a member so I have 8 submissions for starters anyway.
Bruce
P.S. Flying Eagle, there's no reason to take personal cheap shots at me.
I missed whether or not this was a PayPal/Credit Card transaction.
If PayPal/Credit Card was involved, the buyer could well prevail in a dispute. The SNAD claim would have to be based on "poor picture quality."
MANY sellers state "no returns on graded items." Most of those sellers will give a refund, if the pix were faulty, or the description was not adequate.
PCGS may/may not be able to cure the problem. If you could cure it yourself, you would have a 50/50 chance of a bump, I think. It is a pretty nice looking coin.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
How do I fix the coin myself? I have never attemped to do this. Do I use acetone and if so how do I apply it? Will acetone alter the surface of the coin in non affected areas so I have a mirror with a white spot. Thanks for the interesting idea.
Teach the seller a lesson and give him a big negatory. That will cure his photography problems in the future. Meanwhile I checked your buying habits and you're spending a ton of cash on these ebay auctions. You need to get to a show and cut down on the ebay thing.
I do not think I was harsh but rather I find skier07's actions very poor to want to change terms of the auction, threaten the seller, and come here crying and badmouthing the seller. Terms were up front and he made the decision to bid and is now unhappy. I do not feel that the seller deserves a negative for this nor does he deserve to be badmouthed here. Customer service is alive and well even in this transaction. The buyer got the coin pictured in the auction and I assume it was shipped promptly and the terms and conditions of the auction were met by the seller. Just because the buyer wants to change those terms and now add a return privilege does not mean customer service is lacking. If the buyer wants a return privilege then he should have sought out an auction that offered this or better yet purchased the coin in person.
All of this is just fine and dandy, but you have a crummy take on the situation if you think that this seller is not misrepresenting a coin. And I believe that misrepresenting the coin trumps the auction terms. This seller knows what he is doing, and he should be outed. skier07 did a service by posting this. I only wish that there was a better solution to his problem. He doesn't deserve the criticism, even if he misjudged the seller's (sh!tty) character.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I also told him that I would hate for his 100% feedback to be threatened. >>
IMHO, you lost right here. You lapsed into feedback extortion. Even if you do leave a neg, the seller can probably complain to eBay and using your email as proof, get the neg removed.
<< <i>he has a Numitrust MS67 that he says " 1902 P MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 100% WHITE AND FLASHY AND BASICALLY FLAWLESS.............CERTIFIED AND PROFESIONALY GRADED MS67 BY NTC!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE GRADED MS68........" For auction as well, AND he shows the PCGS price guide! NO return >>
That tells me all I need to know about this seller.
I wouldn't neg him. At worse I would leave a neutral stating the pic was possibly doctored. Personally I wouldn't even do that, just wouldn't leave FB at all. Move on. Send it to PCGS. That is your best recourse. And QUIT bidding on auctions if you can't live with the terms. Bad terms should be an instant red flag. A-holes do business like A-holes. Don't support them with your hard earned funds.....JMHO
AKA kokimoki the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt [L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>he has a Numitrust MS67 that he says " 1902 P MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 100% WHITE AND FLASHY AND BASICALLY FLAWLESS.............CERTIFIED AND PROFESIONALY GRADED MS67 BY NTC!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE GRADED MS68........" For auction as well, AND he shows the PCGS price guide! NO return >>
That tells me all I need to know about this seller.
Russ, NCNE >>
That's a given, Russ, ... but for this particular thread, that seller has his bases covered. I am not defending the seller's honor when I say I agree with him, I am defending the position he took with his listing. He didn't pull any punches and we all know that pictures don't tell the whole story.
I'd suggest NO FEEDBACK and take Boom's advice, skier07. You may not like the coin, but you likely will not lose on it. Regardless of what you think, you won fair and square. I can empathize with your situation, but the truth is: YOU WON an auction where the seller covered his .
in looking at the origional pic i see the mark at 4 o'clock. funny pics usually lead to funny coins
a no return policy on slabbed stuff with lousy pics like this woulda made me run the other way. (JM2C), unless I was going to take a gamble i could risk getting burned on.
that price is pretty steep for me to buy site unseen with a no refund policy, maybe not you though
i'd give a neutral feedback in a "polite" way and learn and move on.
some other wise men gave you advice, I'd go that route.
>>>>>>><< he has a Numitrust MS67 that he says " 1902 P MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 100% WHITE AND FLASHY AND BASICALLY FLAWLESS.............CERTIFIED AND PROFESIONALY GRADED MS67 BY NTC!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE GRADED MS68........" For auction as well, AND he shows the PCGS price guide! NO return >>
Ah this is why there is a no return policy on slabbed coins...........................NEG HIM just as a favor to everyone else.
<< <i>Thanks for all the feedback. I expected to hear multiple opinions voiced.
I have a small business and customer service has and always is number one. This guy, whether it was intentional or not, misrepresented his product. Anybody with half a brain whether they stated they don't have a return policy, would reluctantly agree to accept a return. There were 23 bids on the coin. It's not like this coin doesn't have a market. He told me I should sell it, I've never sold on ebay before, so selling a $600 coin for a new seller is not practical.
If we look at what he sells, and I didn't do a real good job of this before the auction, he sells a lot of junk and he is overgrading his coins. Looking at his products leads me to believe that he probably is not the most scrupulous fellow in the world.
I still haven't decided what I will do. I'm leaning towards negging him. I don't sell on ebay so the retaliatory negative doesn't phase me at all. I really do think deep down inside that he deliberately misrepresented the coin with his photo techniques. Notice how clear the label is. And secondly any reputable person doing business under these circumstances whether they have a return policy or not should be able to deviate in extreme situations.
Moral of the story is I should have done a better job when bidding, but it was just one of those days.
Bruce >>
You have sold on e-bay , you sold some Basketball tickets . While agree with the majority that this seller did not disclose the problems with this coin , I'm not sure that a neg feedback is in your best interest .
Dan
Fishing is not a matter of life and death.......It's much more important than that........
This thread is like a long spaghetti noodle, no good place to stop and bite it off, so you just gotta suck it up. Very useful to hear so many thoughts. It seems true that, at best, the seller is being intentionally deceitful. His actions dilute the value of the slabs we all hold. Yet, he is positioned in such a way that the buyer has no recourse, which dilutes the integrity of the marketplace we rely on. Still, the seller is unassailable, the issue is not actionable. He get high marks as a skilled scumbag.
I agree with those that vote to withhold feedback, and Skier07, like with the noodles, you'll just have to suck this one up. Most, if not all, of your loss here can be recovered through re-sale, since it is a PCGS slabbed coin. Secondly, as has been suggested, there's some chance to get some help from PCGS, in which case you could profit. Though I'm far less experienced than many who have offered advice here, I think any further attempt to punish this seller will only cause you more loss.
raz
Markets (governments) can remain irrational longer than an investor can remain solvent.
I agree, send it to PCGS for review & leave no feedback. Here's why --
whether you leave a neg or a neutral, you will get a neg in return. Furthermore, do you think a person who would willingly bid in light of his no-return policy, crappy pics, 3rd tier slabs & all the other hallmarks of a bad egg is going to be magically disuaded by one neg?
Some people will not pay attention to any of the signs, and that's who is going to buy his coins. That's who bought his coin in this case (no slam intended here, it's just what happened) and that's who will do it in the future, and your feedback is unlikely to change that.
You watch and study an auction that has questionable photo's, see that the seller has a NO RETURN policy on TPG graded coins, drop a snipe in the last 10 seconds of the auction trying to guarantee a win, receive a coin that has a brown spot on it that clearly shows up in the photo's, want to return the coin even though the seller has his NO RETURN policy, threaten to neg the seller if he doesn't be as reasonable as you are by accepting this return, and then come to this board asking if you should neg the guy?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
For those suggesting he send it to PCGS on a guarantee submission - he'd likely just be wasting his money. According to his first post, the rest of the coin looks great. If that's the case, the spot is likely why it graded MS65.
You are probably correct Russ and if this is the case, then maybe a crackout and some "conservation" would bring it up to a 66?
It really depends on what the brown stuff it.
Maybe its chewin tobacky?
Regardless, I just don't think the seller deserves a neg. It is afterall, a "buyer beware" market on EBay and unfortunately, this buyer is seeking his own retaliation for making a bad decision.
JMO and now I'll STFU !
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>For those suggesting he send it to PCGS on a guarantee submission - he'd likely just be wasting his money. According to his first post, the rest of the coin looks great. If that's the case, the spot is likely why it graded MS65. >>
So send it to NCS to "conserve" the spot off, then back to PCGS for an MS66 holder, then... PROFIT!
<< <i>So send it to NCS to "conserve" the spot off, then back to PCGS for an MS66 holder, then... PROFIT! >>
Without knowing the exact nature of the spot, it's not possible to determine if that's feasible. But, if it were my coin, this is certainly the route I'd consider.
Comments
Your picture makes the mark look around 50 times better. With the coin in hand there is this big
brown ugly mark. Retrospectively there is a mark present on the listing when the image is enlarged
but there is no clue that there is a huge brown discoloration.
If I can't work things out with seller, and it doesn't appear that way, I'll contact PCGS and see what
they can do. I just became a member so I have 8 submissions for starters anyway.
Bruce
P.S. Flying Eagle, there's no reason to take personal cheap shots at me.
If PayPal/Credit Card was involved, the buyer could well prevail
in a dispute. The SNAD claim would have to be based on "poor
picture quality."
MANY sellers state "no returns on graded items." Most of those
sellers will give a refund, if the pix were faulty, or the description
was not adequate.
PCGS may/may not be able to cure the problem. If you could cure it
yourself, you would have a 50/50 chance of a bump, I think. It is
a pretty nice looking coin.
acetone and if so how do I apply it? Will acetone alter the surface of the coin
in non affected areas so I have a mirror with a white spot. Thanks for the interesting idea.
Bruce
If you send it to PCGS under "Spot Review" you will be made whole.
Lesson learned .... end of story!
Damn! Edited for spelling corrections.
All of this is just fine and dandy, but you have a crummy take on the situation if you think that this seller is not misrepresenting a coin. And I believe that misrepresenting the coin trumps the auction terms. This seller knows what he is doing, and he should be outed. skier07 did a service by posting this. I only wish that there was a better solution to his problem. He doesn't deserve the criticism, even if he misjudged the seller's (sh!tty) character.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I also told him that I would hate for his 100% feedback to be threatened. >>
IMHO, you lost right here. You lapsed into feedback extortion. Even if you do leave a neg, the seller can probably complain to eBay and using your email as proof, get the neg removed.
Move on and forget about it. It's over.
<< <i>he has a Numitrust MS67 that he says " 1902 P MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 100% WHITE AND FLASHY AND BASICALLY FLAWLESS.............CERTIFIED AND PROFESIONALY GRADED MS67 BY NTC!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE GRADED MS68........" For auction as well, AND he shows the PCGS price guide! NO return >>
That tells me all I need to know about this seller.
Russ, NCNE
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>
<< <i>he has a Numitrust MS67 that he says " 1902 P MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR 100% WHITE AND FLASHY AND BASICALLY FLAWLESS.............CERTIFIED AND PROFESIONALY GRADED MS67 BY NTC!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE GRADED MS68........" For auction as well, AND he shows the PCGS price guide! NO return >>
That tells me all I need to know about this seller.
Russ, NCNE >>
That's a given, Russ, ... but for this particular thread, that seller has his bases covered. I am not defending the seller's honor when I say I agree with him, I am defending the position he took with his listing. He didn't pull any punches and we all know that pictures don't tell the whole story.
I'd suggest NO FEEDBACK and take Boom's advice, skier07. You may not like the coin, but you likely will not lose on it. Regardless of what you think, you won fair and square. I can empathize with your situation, but the truth is: YOU WON an auction where the seller covered his
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
a no return policy on slabbed stuff with lousy pics like this woulda made me run the other way. (JM2C), unless I was going to take a gamble i could risk getting burned on.
that price is pretty steep for me to buy site unseen with a no refund policy, maybe not you though
i'd give a neutral feedback in a "polite" way and learn and move on.
some other wise men gave you advice, I'd go that route.
good luck.
Ah this is why there is a no return policy on slabbed coins...........................NEG HIM just as a favor to everyone else.
<< <i>Thanks for all the feedback. I expected to hear multiple opinions voiced.
I have a small business and customer service has and always is number one. This guy, whether it was intentional
or not, misrepresented his product. Anybody with half a brain whether they stated they don't have
a return policy, would reluctantly agree to accept a return. There were 23 bids on the coin. It's not like
this coin doesn't have a market. He told me I should sell it, I've never sold on ebay before, so selling a $600
coin for a new seller is not practical.
If we look at what he sells, and I didn't do a real good job of this before the auction, he sells a lot
of junk and he is overgrading his coins. Looking at his products leads me to believe that he probably
is not the most scrupulous fellow in the world.
I still haven't decided what I will do. I'm leaning towards negging him. I don't sell on ebay so the retaliatory
negative doesn't phase me at all. I really do think deep down inside that he deliberately misrepresented
the coin with his photo techniques. Notice how clear the label is. And secondly any reputable person doing
business under these circumstances whether they have a return policy or not should be able to deviate
in extreme situations.
Moral of the story is I should have done a better job when bidding, but it was just one of those days.
Bruce >>
You have sold on e-bay , you sold some Basketball tickets .
While agree with the majority that this seller did not disclose the problems
with this coin , I'm not sure that a neg feedback is in your best interest .
Dan
I agree with those that vote to withhold feedback, and Skier07, like with the noodles, you'll just have to suck this one up. Most, if not all, of your loss here can be recovered through re-sale, since it is a PCGS slabbed coin. Secondly, as has been suggested, there's some chance to get some help from PCGS, in which case you could profit. Though I'm far less experienced than many who have offered advice here, I think any further attempt to punish this seller will only cause you more loss.
raz
Just leave it alone, move on and do the ONLY thing you can.
Send it to PCGS and NO, you do NOT have to burn One of your
membership submissions over this as the Service is FREE.
Get a submission form out and on the top right, write & encircle the words "Spot Review."
You'll only be out the postage. End of "Noodle."
whether you leave a neg or a neutral, you will get a neg in return. Furthermore, do you think a person who would willingly bid in light of his no-return policy, crappy pics, 3rd tier slabs & all the other hallmarks of a bad egg is going to be magically disuaded by one neg?
Some people will not pay attention to any of the signs, and that's who is going to buy his coins. That's who bought his coin in this case (no slam intended here, it's just what happened) and that's who will do it in the future, and your feedback is unlikely to change that.
Good luck --
MD
You watch and study an auction that has questionable photo's, see that the seller has a NO RETURN policy on TPG graded coins, drop a snipe in the last 10 seconds of the auction trying to guarantee a win, receive a coin that has a brown spot on it that clearly shows up in the photo's, want to return the coin even though the seller has his NO RETURN policy, threaten to neg the seller if he doesn't be as reasonable as you are by accepting this return, and then come to this board asking if you should neg the guy?
The name is LEE!
Russ, NCNE
It really depends on what the brown stuff it.
Maybe its chewin tobacky?
Regardless, I just don't think the seller deserves a neg. It is afterall, a "buyer beware" market on EBay and unfortunately, this buyer is seeking his own retaliation for making a bad decision.
JMO and now I'll STFU !
The name is LEE!
<< <i>For those suggesting he send it to PCGS on a guarantee submission - he'd likely just be wasting his money. According to his first post, the rest of the coin looks great. If that's the case, the spot is likely why it graded MS65. >>
So send it to NCS to "conserve" the spot off, then back to PCGS for an MS66 holder, then... PROFIT!
<< <i>So send it to NCS to "conserve" the spot off, then back to PCGS for an MS66 holder, then... PROFIT! >>
Without knowing the exact nature of the spot, it's not possible to determine if that's feasible. But, if it were my coin, this is certainly the route I'd consider.
Russ, NCNE