Was I too tough on this ebayer?

Newb · February 13, 2007 11:08AM

I don't think I was, but it's good to get a view from outside the box.

I'm selling a 20th Ann Gold PCGS PR69, and my auction has good pics. Not Mark or Lee or Russview worthy, but good.

Hello,
I am looking for a 100% clear coin. Free of any discoloration, spots, marks, and specks. Is this coin one like that?
Thank you.

If you're looking for "perfection", I'd suggest finding a PCGS PR70 to bid on. Even then, no coin is perfect. No coin is "100% clear".

Good luck,
Greg

Barndog · February 13, 2007 11:10AM

you should also block the bidder, IMO. My experience tells me that if the bidder wins, when he/she finds a micron sized speck on the coin or the holder, you are looking at a return. Those questions often lead to dissatisfied sellers.

Russ · February 13, 2007 11:11AM

Yes, you were too tough on him. Most MS69's would meet his criteria, as most bidders who ask this question are concerned with stuff that is readily visible.

Russ, NCNE

TomB · February 13, 2007 11:11AM

I didn't think the question was over the line.

Rampage · February 13, 2007 11:14AM

<< I don't think I was, but it's good to get a view from outside the box.
I'm selling a 20th Ann Gold PCGS PR69, and my auction has good pics. Not Mark or Lee or Russview worthy, but good.
Hello,
I am looking for a 100% clear coin. Free of any discoloration, spots, marks, and specks. Is this coin one like that?
Thank you.
If you're looking for "perfection", I'd suggest finding a PCGS PR70 to bid on. Even then, no coin is perfect. No coin is "100% clear".
Good luck,
Greg >>

Greg,

If I asked that question and that was your response, I certainly would not bid. I think you could have been more sensitive to the possible buyer's question. After all the posts here on the PCGS message boards, I am sure you know by now that some coins graded MS/PF 69 have turned while in the holders. THAT is what this person was asking, and in fact, he/she even stated that. It was not that the buyer wanted a PF/MS 70 coin as you suggest (which, by the way, can also turn later on in the holders, e.g. see the PF70 Lincoln cent from last year or two), but one free of spots and such. He/She did not want to buy a coin that has turned in the holder. It woud then be a problem coin.

Finally, I think your response was highly unprofessional.

Rampage · February 13, 2007 11:16AM

<< you should also block the bidder, IMO. My experience tells me that if the bidder wins, when he/she finds a micron sized speck on the coin or the holder, you are looking at a return. Those questions often lead to dissatisfied sellers. >>

And, I might add, I am surprised at Barndog's response to your thread. There have been many MANY times where buyers have emailed me about a particular coin and asked about certain features. If you are honest with the potential buyer, then you have nothing to worry about. However, if you are dishonest in your response to the buyers, then sure, problems may come up later. Always be honest in what you are selling.

Dabigkahuna · February 13, 2007 11:17AM

That sounded like a legitimate question to me but maybe that's because my photos are so bad.?

ziggy29 · February 13, 2007 11:17AM

<< Yes, you were too tough on him. Most MS69's would meet his criteria, as most bidders who ask this question are concerned with stuff that is readily visible. >>

But was he concerned with *any* marks, or only those visible with the naked eye? I think the question DID make it sound like they were expecting perfection.

I would say "yes, there probably ARE marks on this coin, but they are very small and not visible with the naked eye. If that's all you mean by "mark-free" then this coin is that. But if you mean perfect even under magnification, probably not, and if that's what you insist on, this isn't the one for you and you should look for a coin graded MS-70."

Rampage · February 13, 2007 11:21AM

<< 

<< Yes, you were too tough on him. Most MS69's would meet his criteria, as most bidders who ask this question are concerned with stuff that is readily visible. >>

But was he concerned with *any* marks, or only those visible with the naked eye? I think the question DID make it sound like they were expecting perfection.

I would say "yes, there probably ARE marks on this coin, but they are very small and not visible with the naked eye. If that's all you mean by "mark-free" then this coin is that. But if you mean perfect even under magnification, probably not, and if that's what you insist on, this isn't the one for you and you should look for a coin graded MS-70." >>

No, it appears obvious to me that the potential buyer was asking if the coin had "discoloration, spots, marks, and specks". I think the word marks can have more than one meaning, and in this case, the meaning is the same as "discoloration, spots, and specks". Of course, these are just my opinions. He/She clearly wanted to know whether or not the coin turned after being slabbed by PCGS.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 13, 2007 11:25AM

I think you were a little too tough...... PR69 is pretty much the same as PR70, just thenumber on the holder is the same

ziggy29 · February 13, 2007 11:27AM

<< No, it appears obvious to me that the potential buyer was asking if the coin had "discoloration, spots, marks, and specks". I think the word marks can have more than one meaning, and in this case, the meaning is the same as "discoloration, spots, and specks". Of course, these are just my opinions. He/She clearly wanted to know whether or not the coin turned after being slabbed by PCGS. >>

Not obvious to me at all. There's no indication that they clearly understand that they understand the topic of "turning in the holder" or even that they know what an MS-69 typically represents.

ABSilvercoins · February 13, 2007 11:43AM

Pretty new at this, but have notice one little aspect of selling on eBay: When you point out some small defect or scratch on a coin, it gets more bids. Human nature being what it is.

I guess it makes the auction seem more 'truthful' if you point out a minor rim ding, or other defect that should be noticed anyway.

I sold a well-cleaned IHC last week. SHINY was in the title of the auction and the decription contained this para:

<< Numismatically Incorrect! This coin has been cleaned better than most surgical instruments. The cleaning, while it is very obvious, did not seem to damage the surface of the coin. It will turn darker in what, maybe 3 or 4 years. >>

First bid took 5 minutes and the One-Dollar coin sold for $8.51 + S&H

Perhaps your customer was looking for that type of validation to make himself go ahead and bid. (Not that there was anything WRONG with your coin...)

Newb · February 13, 2007 11:44AM

He said "100% clear".....is any coin 100% clear? No. That's the point.

He said free of "specks"...define "specks"....let's break out the micrometer.

Barndog...that's the impression I'm getting. I'm thinking whatever he gets is going to be thrown under a microscope. I won't block him - he has strong feedback and seems to be straight up - I've been honest with him and he can take the next step.

Rampage, it's 2006 20th Ann. Gold ...how many of those have turned in their holders? I think he's looking for perfection, which I can't guarantee in a PR70, much less a PR69.

BobaFett72 · February 13, 2007 11:47AM

I think you were a little rough on him with your reply. I don't think he will be bidding lol.

Barndog · February 13, 2007 11:47AM

my response was based on experience with similar bidders' questions, not an opinion. I stand by it and act in accordance with my experience.

TomB · February 13, 2007 11:53AM

You do not appear to truly want the view from outside the box that you have requested in your first post, and if one were to parse any sentence enough one may come up with various interpretations. I have seen quite a few recent gold coins in PCGS MS69 and PF69 holders that have uneven toning, specks or toning splotches and in my opinion a "100% clear" coin would not have them. Again, in my opinion, it would have been much better to simply answer the question instead of giving advice.

Rampage · February 13, 2007 11:53AM

<< my response was based on experience with similar bidders' questions, not an opinion. I stand by it and act in accordance with my experience. >>

Barndog, I certainly respect your choices, but I have never had any experiences like that. Of course, I only sell a handful of coins every three or four months, so maybe I have not had the luck of getting such bidders.

Newb, I certainly repsect your choices, too, but I do feel you were too hard on the bidder. To answer your question, I do not buy/sell/trade modern bullion coins, so I cannot fairly answer that question. I collect the silver eagles from 1986 to 1994 and then I stopped. Those are in an album and have turned as one would expect, but I do not have any slabbed, other than the CU freebies from joining the CC. I just know what I've read from what other folks write about them.

EDITED TO SAY: And, as TomB mentioned above my post, you wanted a view from outside the box and that is what several people gave you. It so happens, the majority feel you were too hard.

Newb · February 13, 2007 12:03PM

<< You do not appear to truly want the view from outside the box that you have requested in your first post, and if one were to parse any sentence enough one may come up with various interpretations. I have seen quite a few recent gold coins in PCGS MS69 and PF69 holders that have uneven toning, specks or toning splotches and in my opinion a "100% clear" coin would not have them. Again, in my opinion, it would have been much better to simply answer the question instead of giving advice. >>

Well, you're wrong. I do want the view, but as I said, I don't think I was too harsh, and will debate contrary opinions while heeding what is offered constructively.

The bottom line is, I value my 100% feedback, even though it's only with 260 some odd transactions, and want to keep it that way. This guy sounds like his expectations are too high. Parsing sentences this closely can avoid a negative from a bidder who is looking for "perfection".

Barndog · February 13, 2007 12:04PM

<< 

<< my response was based on experience with similar bidders' questions, not an opinion. I stand by it and act in accordance with my experience. >>

Barndog, I certainly respect your choices, but I have never had any experiences like that. Of course, I only sell a handful of coins every three or four months, so maybe I have not had the luck of getting such bidders.

Newb, I certainly repsect your choices, too, but I do feel you were too hard on the bidder. To answer your question, I do not buy/sell/trade modern bullion coins, so I cannot fairly answer that question. I collect the silver eagles from 1986 to 1994 and then I stopped. Those are in an album and have turned as one would expect, but I do not have any slabbed, other than the CU freebies from joining the CC. I just know what I've read from what other folks write about them.

EDITED TO SAY: And, as TomB mentioned above my post, you wanted a view from outside the box and that is what several people gave you. It so happens, the majority feel you were too hard. >>

understood. Each person needs to make his/her own judgment as to what is the best thing to do.

Newb · February 13, 2007 12:07PM

<< 

<< my response was based on experience with similar bidders' questions, not an opinion. I stand by it and act in accordance with my experience. >>

Barndog, I certainly respect your choices, but I have never had any experiences like that. Of course, I only sell a handful of coins every three or four months, so maybe I have not had the luck of getting such bidders.

Newb, I certainly repsect your choices, too, but I do feel you were too hard on the bidder. To answer your question, I do not buy/sell/trade modern bullion coins, so I cannot fairly answer that question. I collect the silver eagles from 1986 to 1994 and then I stopped. Those are in an album and have turned as one would expect, but I do not have any slabbed, other than the CU freebies from joining the CC. I just know what I've read from what other folks write about them.

EDITED TO SAY: And, as TomB mentioned above my post, you wanted a view from outside the box and that is what several people gave you. It so happens, the majority feel you were too hard. >>

And I respect that...I don't think I was, but then again I can be a gruff SOB sometimes

I listen to well reasoned criticism, which is what I have received from you and others, and I appreciate it.

WinPitcher · February 13, 2007 12:37PM

IMO I think telling the buyer to look for a pcgs coin in ms 70 was good advice seeing that he was looking for perfection.

I did not take the reply as rude either.

JMO

Steve

DenverDave · February 13, 2007 12:40PM

Let me guess, you do not work with the public very often

mcheath · February 13, 2007 12:42PM

You dont sell many coins then? No matter what the plastic says all ms69s are not created equal and this is a legitimate question IMO. Unless your pics are the size of the my monitor it is a fair question. Just letting him know no coin is perfect but say there are no problems splotchy toning, milkspots etc would have been sufficent.

mcheath · February 13, 2007 12:43PM

>>>>>>>IMO I think telling the buyer to look for a pcgs coin in ms 70 was good advice seeing that he was looking for perfection.

I did not take the reply as rude either.

JMO

Steve >>>>>>>>

Steve, I take it you dont buy or sell alot of 70s.

mrpotatoheadd · February 13, 2007 12:48PM

<< Pretty new at this, but have notice one little aspect of selling on eBay: When you point out some small defect or scratch on a coin, it gets more bids. Human nature being what it is. >>

I had an email question a while back about a coin I had up for auction. The prospective bidder said that although he knew I offered the option to return the coin if he wasn't satisfied, he didn't want to fool around with returns. In my email reply, I told him I was confident the coin was as described, but if he was concerned about possibly having to return it, I'd recommend that he not bid.

He bid and won. On several items.

You just never know for sure what to expect, I guess.

Bochiman · February 13, 2007 12:58PM

<< He said "100% clear".....is any coin 100% clear? No. That's the point.

He said free of "specks"...define "specks"....let's break out the micrometer.

Barndog...that's the impression I'm getting. I'm thinking whatever he gets is going to be thrown under a microscope. I won't block him - he has strong feedback and seems to be straight up - I've been honest with him and he can take the next step.

Rampage, it's 2006 20th Ann. Gold ...how many of those have turned in their holders? I think he's looking for perfection, which I can't guarantee in a PR70, much less a PR69. >>

You should then put in your auction description that you only want bids from those that know numismatics and all the correct terms. May have been a beginner. May know what he likes and willing to pay for it and not be a hassle.

Sometimes it seems people go out of their way to hassle people asking questions. If they are rude in their initial question, or ask many, then I could understand be wary or tired, but not with one like that.
Tonight, I got a question on the motheboard I am selling....it doesn't look the same as the one on the MB's manufacturer's site for that model. Well, I verified what mine is for him, mentioned it could possibly be a different rev but I had no idea on why the pics are different.
I could have been rude and gotten a kick out of it, but why? Now, if he comes back and is a d**k, then that may be different, but, as-is, he wants something, I potentially have it, and he wants to know more about it before purchase.

WinPitcher · February 13, 2007 1:12PM

I just do not see where he was rude. the guy asked some questions and the seller answered them.

???

Steve

Rampage · February 13, 2007 1:24PM

<< 

<< 

<< my response was based on experience with similar bidders' questions, not an opinion. I stand by it and act in accordance with my experience. >>

Barndog, I certainly respect your choices, but I have never had any experiences like that. Of course, I only sell a handful of coins every three or four months, so maybe I have not had the luck of getting such bidders.

Newb, I certainly repsect your choices, too, but I do feel you were too hard on the bidder. To answer your question, I do not buy/sell/trade modern bullion coins, so I cannot fairly answer that question. I collect the silver eagles from 1986 to 1994 and then I stopped. Those are in an album and have turned as one would expect, but I do not have any slabbed, other than the CU freebies from joining the CC. I just know what I've read from what other folks write about them.

EDITED TO SAY: And, as TomB mentioned above my post, you wanted a view from outside the box and that is what several people gave you. It so happens, the majority feel you were too hard. >>

And I respect that...I don't think I was, but then again I can be a gruff SOB sometimes

I listen to well reasoned criticism, which is what I have received from you and others, and I appreciate it. >>

Thanks Greg. Sounds fair to me.

BlindedByEgo · February 13, 2007 2:32PM

I may have answered about the same, but possibly with more diplomacy.

Still and all, nothing really wrong with a direct answer.

notwilight · February 13, 2007 3:01PM

I'd say that unless your coin has problems, you turned away a sale. I answer such questions with my jumbo photos and have never had a dissatisfied customer.

---Jerry

PrivateCoinCollector · February 13, 2007 3:10PM

<< 

<< you should also block the bidder, IMO. My experience tells me that if the bidder wins, when he/she finds a micron sized speck on the coin or the holder, you are looking at a return. Those questions often lead to dissatisfied sellers. >>

And, I might add, I am surprised at Barndog's response to your thread. There have been many MANY times where buyers have emailed me about a particular coin and asked about certain features. If you are honest with the potential buyer, then you have nothing to worry about. However, if you are dishonest in your response to the buyers, then sure, problems may come up later. Always be honest in what you are selling. >>

Although we should always be honest, it is not realistic to think that always saves the day. The world is full of scammers and idiots. I can tell you stories of buyers on eBay that would make you sit-up and go "Am I dreaming?"

PrivateCoinCollector · February 13, 2007 3:15PM

You are OK here. Some times we just have to let off some steam, and I can see how his question could be interpreted to mean he wants a 70. No worries.

mnmcoin · February 13, 2007 3:21PM

<< Yes, you were too tough on him. Most MS69's would meet his criteria, as most bidders who ask this question are concerned with stuff that is readily visible.

Russ, NCNE >>

I agree fully...remember the criteria for 69 is perfect to the naked eye and 70 is perfect to 5x magnification.

Also, as russ alluded to, some 69s have gone bad...it just sounds like this buyer was making sure this is not one of those.

morris <><

BigE · February 13, 2007 4:19PM

Yep, you were mean to him. I would have checked his fedback to see if he had lots bid retractions or if he was overly picky by his feedback, and how many coins he has purchased. One of the biggest mistakes a seller of coins can do, or a seller of anything for that matter is to tell a prospect what he or she should be buying. The bidder asked if the coin was "clear", and purposely did not use the term "perfect", who knows, he could have took over an hour looking at your auction and deciding how to ask you a question. You proved to him that you know more about coins than he does but did not make a friend-------------------BigE

basestealer · February 13, 2007 5:00PM

<< I don't think I was, but it's good to get a view from outside the box.

I'm selling a 20th Ann Gold PCGS PR69, and my auction has good pics. Not Mark or Lee or Russview worthy, but good.

Hello,
I am looking for a 100% clear coin. Free of any discoloration, spots, marks, and specks. Is this coin one like that?
Thank you.

If you're looking for "perfection", I'd suggest finding a PCGS PR70 to bid on. Even then, no coin is perfect. No coin is "100% clear".

Good luck,
Greg >>

My opinion is, never use eBay as a personal soapbox. What you say here, and amongst your friends, and to your family and co-workers, or alone in the shower--probably has no place on eBay, because you're dealing with a faceless dynamic comprised of over a hundred million people, each coming from a different place than you. I get stupid questions all the time, and bizzare questions, and even insulting questions, the occasional perverted question, however I think it's best to treat everyone as a valued customer and just gossip about them behind their backs. That way you get to release frustration and avoid losing business or hurting feelings at the same time. Enjoy!

Preussen · February 13, 2007 9:07PM

<< you should also block the bidder, IMO. My experience tells me that if the bidder wins, when he/she finds a micron sized speck on the coin or the holder, you are looking at a return. Those questions often lead to dissatisfied sellers. >>

-Preussen

TwoSides2aCoin · February 13, 2007 9:37PM

You should love your neighbor as yourself and send him the coin free of charge.
How dare you not be PERFECT like the coin he wants

.... I forgive you, brother

Joe

MadMarty · February 13, 2007 9:40PM

Maybe you should have answered,

It's a PCGS graded coin you NIMROD, they are all perfection!!

Russ · February 14, 2007 2:09AM

<< Maybe you should have answered,

It's a PCGS graded coin you NIMROD, they are all perfection!! >>

And, avoid NGC like the plague.

Russ, NCNE

leothelyon · February 14, 2007 3:11AM

<< I don't think I was, but it's good to get a view from outside the box.

I'm selling a 20th Ann Gold PCGS PR69, and my auction has good pics. Not Mark or Lee or Russview worthy, but good.

Hello,
I am looking for a 100% clear coin. Free of any discoloration, spots, marks, and specks. Is this coin one like that?
Thank you.

If you're looking for "perfection", I'd suggest finding a PCGS PR70 to bid on. Even then, no coin is perfect. No coin is "100% clear".

Good luck,
Greg >>

I don't believe the guy was asking for perfection when the coin is obviously a PR69. The language barrier between two people is one of the most difficult things to master. In other words, it's not uncommon to have two slightly different meanings to common descriptive word usage. For example, a collector may ask, is the coin brilliant or lustrous? You might think it looks brilliant or lustrous but the problem arrises to, how brilliant or lustrous are we talking about? What you might think is brilliant or lustrous, the other party might not agree. Because this area of selling can be so evasive, it's very important to understand the needs of the buyer or what they're asking, to level the field so to speak, to get on even ground with what the buyer wants. Do you both have a general idea about what the other is asking or describing in terms the other can understands? Let's see how many ways can I write this so you can understand.

The other problem I've had with selling coins is writing a description for a coin that caters to all buyers. And the best way to do that is simple tell the truth. In one of your auctions you write; 1 oz of pure lustrous gold in this beauty. A gorgeous coin. The photos do not do it justice. This does not tell me why the coin was graded a MS69Dcam. It says nothing about milk spots or hairlines or the ting tick that like precluded this coin from grading MS70. Your selling a coin based on a opinion and for many collectors that is not good enough. You need to say more about the coin (go out on a limb so to speak) including any minuses it might have because honesty sells.

To simple say, hey, if you want perfection, go buy a MS70 coin! This will not estabish a relationship between the buyer and seller which could result into some sales.

Leo

Athena · February 14, 2007 4:12AM

You were not too tough on the person who asked the question. "Perfect" coins should be purchased in person.

Was I too tough on this ebayer?

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