What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000?

TahoeDale · February 10, 2007 3:40AM

I remember as a kid the easiest to find nickel being the 38-D. I had 2 or 3 raw, that in later life certified as 64, 65, and 66. I paid 25 cents for each.

But today, in a national auction, a MS 68 is now bid over $16,000. PCGS has graded 8, and NGC even more. While the series is one of the most popular, I find it difficult to understand the demand and value of this generic date.

The same might be said of a recent sale of a 1941-S Walker- over $90,000 for a date that in the next lower grade sells regularly for under $2000. And the $90,000 coin is one of about 7.

Condition rarity (even the highest graded) should not be valued this high, IMO.

True rarity( by mintage and survival) has taken a back seat to the popular series, and it may be due(only?) to Registry fever. I am a strong supporter of the Registries, but a warning needs to go out to the collectors that will pay such prices for common dates in ultra-high grades. These coins will never retain their most recent pricing,

OR

The rare dates in series like the Barbers and Seated that are lagging behind need a ton of collectors to increase the demand.

OR

I need to start looking more closely at the Buffalos I have not certified

dragon · February 10, 2007 3:45AM

<<< Condition rarity (even the highest graded) should not be valued this high, IMO. >>>

I agree 100%. 16K for a 38-D Buff is insanity regardless of condition IMO.

MrEureka · February 10, 2007 3:48AM

If you are a Registry Set collector of Buffalos, and if you don't know and don't care about other coins or collectibles, the price of a 68 38-D can make sense.

Fortunately for most of us, we have a broader field of vision.

PonyExpress8 · February 10, 2007 4:29AM

Couldn't agree with you more Dale. Someday maybe this will shift.

For my money I would rather buy something that has overall rarity and looks great in a 65 than a one grade higher coin that recieved a gift on a happy grader day. Considering the average coin is looked at a total of 10 seconds each on average by two graders, and if there is a disagreement a third tie breaker if you will, there are inconsistencies.

There are likely roll quantities of coins like the 38-D nickel and 1941-S walker around still today with rolls being held back like this starting more in the mid-30's. Overall rarity in a US coin for the most part dates from 1933 back, with the exceptions being some quantities of gold that was overseas, examples being certain date/mint mark Saints and all those Morgans that sat around for years in vaults.

I am thinking these high prices for high condition common dates, condition rarities stems from the registry approach as well as all the newer mint products that get graded 69 and 70 for extra money. I was looking at pop reports just last night at bullion type coins and 98% of most of these coins are 69's, a few 70's and a scattered few 68's and lower. This modern graded product had created the market perception supporting the type of pricing for condition rarity as well. In a good market in popular series there condition rarity prices seem to go up, but these are also the types of coina that will take a serious drop in a down market.

Glenn

RichieURich · February 10, 2007 4:32AM

Roll quantity - definitely! They were breaking up bags in the 1970's and 1980's! IMO $16K could buy a really RARE coin, or a condition rarity that in one grade lower is worth what, $100?

Shamika · February 10, 2007 4:35AM

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

The plastic that it's in.

cladking · February 10, 2007 4:40AM

It's interesting that a common nickel with lots of just missed coins
can get up to $16,000 while a much scarcer nickel with very few
just missed coins like the '82-P won't bring nearly this price.

Ironically the collector base for the '82-P is growing far faster than
for the '38-D.

Everyone keeps talking about the registries being the biggest dri-
ver and obviously they may be a big factor but when you have most
"serious" collectors pursuing coins in the best condition they can af-
ford and the coins are available because of TPG's and the net then
it's hard to imagine any other outcome.

It's ironic that this coin was one of very few classics that I was ever
able to purchase in astounding condition. Mine easily graded 68 and
would have a shot at 69. Sure, I saw others but they were far too
high priced for my budget.

tradedollarnut · February 10, 2007 4:51AM

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

Having too much money...

291fifth · February 10, 2007 4:52AM

No matter how high the grade, I can't get excited about a 38-D Buffalo Nickel.

coinkat · February 10, 2007 4:59AM

It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I have 3 that are in plastic... 2 are NGC graded 66 with lovely color and the other is PCGS... they are fine... good enough... registry or no registry

RBinTex · February 10, 2007 5:01AM

To answer your question as succintly as possible - IDIOCY.

Garneteye · February 10, 2007 5:17AM

An underbidder

cape · February 10, 2007 5:22AM

dale, i agree i wouldnt pony up for this common date widget!

RichieURich · February 10, 2007 5:28AM

<< 

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

Having too much money... >>

I was going to say a buyer with more money than brains, but I think TDN captured it also.

RegistryCoin · February 10, 2007 5:32AM

I'm not sure if it's is the same '38D p8. I think that Larry may have had his for sale on Heritage for a while but now it is on his site at $24,995, so if it isn't the same coin then two of the eight are for sale, and if Larry's price is considered "market" than $16k may be quite a buy, if one were in the market. What site did you see it on, or what auction is it in?
PQ's listing

cladking · February 10, 2007 5:57AM

It looks like we all agree that this coin is very high priced.

This implies the price is headed far higher.

tradedollarnut · February 10, 2007 6:01AM

With an ex PCGS grader bragging about coloring buffs and getting them upgraded, I wouldn't touch a colored buffalo with a ten foot pole right about now...

Michigan · February 10, 2007 6:02AM

For $16,000 you could get a very nice late model used car. Can't see spending that kind of money on a 1938-D buffalo nickel no matter
what the plastic says.

MrEureka · February 10, 2007 6:34AM

With an ex PCGS grader bragging about coloring buffs and getting them upgraded, I wouldn't touch a colored buffalo with a ten foot pole right about now...

But you would buy Gobrechts?

tradedollarnut · February 10, 2007 6:35AM

<< With an ex PCGS grader bragging about coloring buffs and getting them upgraded, I wouldn't touch a colored buffalo with a ten foot pole right about now...

But you would buy Gobrechts?

>>

Not blue ones that haven't been a part of the same collection for 50 years, I wouldn't!

MAD4MORGANS · February 10, 2007 6:36AM

Money laundering

coinkat · February 10, 2007 6:42AM

I haven't tried to upgrade mine yet...

roadrunner · February 10, 2007 6:43AM

Interesting that Bob Campbell on his AT video in 2001 stated that there were so many toned buffs made at that time that he was suspicious of nearly every one.

Don't forget that a MS68 Buff is needed in a 20th century type set as well. But it still comes down to having the cash to spend.

roadrunner

Rarity · February 10, 2007 6:44AM

For 16K, I can buy all of Mint's products of 2007 and hopefully will hit a few winners.

jbsteven · February 10, 2007 6:45AM

I would pay more than $16,000 for a PCGS ms69 Morgan. There are 10 of those total.

I think 31 total ms68 Buff's so 16k does not seem THAT out of line.

PrivateCoinCollector · February 10, 2007 6:47AM

You stumped me. I cannot think of anything that would make a Indian Nickel worth $16,000. Is this a trick question?

thisnamztaken · February 10, 2007 6:53AM

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

Umm, err, ahh, the fact that someone out there is willing to spend that much for it?

dbldie55 · February 10, 2007 7:03AM

Why do find it interesting that a Buffalo nickel can bring this much money when an unpopular coin like a jefferson nickel cannot? It is comparing apples to oranges. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Why don't you start a thread about the high priced Jefferson's and ask why that doesn't equate to an 82 bringing more money?

BlindedByEgo · February 10, 2007 7:08AM

<< <<< Condition rarity (even the highest graded) should not be valued this high, IMO. >>>

>>

A Rolls-Royce "shouldn't" cost 700K

Nobody "should" be able to spend 8 figures on a private jet

It's not fair that some eat hamburger, and some eat filet mignon and lobster

A mere bottle of wine "shouln't" cost the median middle class annual income.

I'm not responsible for setting the value of things - the bearer of the gelt is.

Build a bridge and get over it

asin · February 10, 2007 7:21AM

<< For 16K, I can buy all of Mint's products of 2007 and hopefully will hit a few winners. >>

Then you are in the same boat. Up the creek without a pabble. Over priced mint products.

RegistryCoin · February 10, 2007 7:23AM

Hmmmm. Is it time to think about an ms64-67 buff set?

mr1931S · February 10, 2007 7:29AM

"I would pay more than $16,000 for a PCGS ms69 Morgan. There are 10 of those total. I think 31 total ms68 Buff's so 16k does not seem THAT out of line."

I've owned some of the best common-date Buffs ever made which I can't believe looked any different than most, if not all, of the "31." These are '37-S's that I painstakingly plucked from original rolls. I paid $5 each for these about 25 years ago.16K in 2007 for a '38 D Buffalo nickel is way, way out of line, in my opinion.

What I thought was an exceptionally well-struck '38-D was also in my holdings. Who knows? Maybe that 16K nickel is the one that was once owned by me.

cladking · February 10, 2007 7:42AM

<< Why do find it interesting that a Buffalo nickel can bring this much money when an unpopular coin like a jefferson nickel cannot? It is comparing apples to oranges. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
>>

I think it does. The same people aren't often collecting both buffalos and Jeffersons
but in many cases similarly scarce coins in different series will have a similar price. De-
mand is the major determinant but in this case there may actually be more collectors
of the scarcer (in unc) '82 than the '38, they simply aren't willing to pay as much.

I suppose this is why I find it interesting. It is apples and oranges but usually the stores
don't charge $16,000 for an apple and give away the oranges.

dizzyfoxx · February 10, 2007 7:44AM

<What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000?>

Absolutely positively nothing!

Gemineye · February 10, 2007 7:47AM

<< 

<< For 16K, I can buy all of Mint's products of 2007 and hopefully will hit a few winners. >>

Then you are in the same boat. Up the creek without a pabble. Over priced mint products. >>

What' a...pabble..

Russ · February 10, 2007 7:49AM

<< I cannot think of anything that would make a Indian Nickel worth $16,000. >>

Have any 18/7-D's you'd like to sell? How about a '16 DDO?

Russ, NCNE

RegistryCoin · February 10, 2007 7:51AM

<< What' a...pabble..

>>

When you finb youself up a creek and neeby, you'll unberstand.

Newcomp103 · February 10, 2007 8:03AM

"INVESTORS" don't care about mintage figures, or whether it is a common date or not....Like Shamika said...it's all about the plastic...and the truth is....today's $16,000 38-D Buffalo, no matter how common of a date we as collector's view it....might be tomorrow's $25,000+ rarity! It's all about that future potential.

roadrunner · February 10, 2007 8:57AM

If I felt this buff was in the top 3 or so pieces of the 30 or so graded, then yes, I'd probably be a buyer at $16K. There are always buyers for the top coins. A PQ68+ at $16K is tomorrow's MS69 at $30K. But, I would not want to be owning the coin when the music stops.

roadrunner

RegistryCoin · February 11, 2007 11:43PM

So, what did this thing sell for (with the juice)?

13PacesEast · February 11, 2007 11:51PM

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

a fool and his money.

segoja · February 12, 2007 12:25AM

Larry's Buffalo in 68 is a beauty!

I should know, I sold it recently!!!

tradedollarnut · February 12, 2007 12:30AM

I bought a beautiful old holder MS67 for $100.

RegistryCoin · February 12, 2007 1:05AM

I see an ms68 '38d 5c in the B & M auction and will assume that this is the coin discussed in this thread. It didn't sell.

seemyauction · February 12, 2007 6:12AM

<< 

<< What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000? >>

The plastic that it's in. >>

I have to agree.....

AL

leothelyon · February 12, 2007 12:21PM

With the sell of any of these poptops, when the market begins to shift south, who will be left to consider that coin. For 16 grand, that coin better have one heck of an EDS strike!

Leo

oldcameoproofsguy · February 12, 2007 2:21PM

If the coin was a 38-D/D/D/S in MS 68 with outstanding toning then maybe $16K.

leothelyon · February 13, 2007 2:31AM

Let's not forget this infamous product! $17,250 1950-D This coin entered a checkbook registry. Here are the pics again. The coin on the right is mine and I sure would like to know who has the coin in the bottom picture.

This is the kind of coin that should had fetched the 17 grand!! Check out the bloom around Jefferson' ear.

Oops, there I go again, berating someone's registry set! sorry

Leo

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 13, 2007 4:26AM

welcome to the world of PCGS registry sets

BobGreene · February 13, 2007 5:47AM

My 38-D Buffalo is an MS65 and think it's incredibly well-struck and a beautiful coin. To pay that much for a coin that can be found in a lower grade and still looks gorgeous is, to me, incredibly stupid. Such buyers aren't really collecting, in my opinion, but investing.

carl · February 13, 2007 6:05AM

<< To answer your question as succintly as possible - IDIOCY. >>

Almost my idea too. Only I would not have said it so politely.

What makes a 1938-D Buffalo nickel worth over $16,000?

Comments

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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