I predict, that the....... So Called Dollars

Bear · February 8, 2007 8:23AM

Will prove to be the new, low cost,

undiscovered country. The smart money,

is already gobbling up the good stuff. They

are beautiful, reletively plentiful as to varieties

and still reletively cheap.

MRK · February 8, 2007 8:49AM

Just a guess, but I think that interest will soar over the next few years. I notice much more exposure to them lately, many threads on the boards, the release of the new book, etc. I'll predict that prices will become strong over the next few years, but the market will remain an excellent alternative to collecting coins pricewise. They present an interesting challenge as to how one can collect. By event, metal composition, etc. Just like coins there will be the key So Called Dollars, condition rarities, and those that may just be difficult to find. There's also a ton of history to be learned by studying the events that they commemorate such as world's fairs and other events. Dive in and have fun.

Zoins · February 8, 2007 9:10AM

There seems to be an impression that SCDs only/primarily cover expos/fairs and the like. I started to put together a HK scope document to see what other areas HK SCDs cover aside from expos/fairs. It's still a work in progress but there seem to be a number of different types of SCDs that are not expo/fair related though I still need to do more research. Some of my assumptions may also be wrong but that's why I'm still researching. I'm wondering if there's a potential for non-expo/fair related SCDs. Perhaps there should be certain categories of SCDs of which expos/fairs can be one. HK already has some categories but perhaps this can be more detailed and collectors and focus on specific categories of SCDs.

MrSpud · February 8, 2007 9:21AM

So-Called Dollars are fascinating. So many interesting designs commemorating historical events. Lots of high relief coins, many higher relief than any of the classic coins. The perfect complimentary alternative to date/mm collecting where all the coins look the same. I think they will be looked at like the US Commemoratives, only with far more interesting designs.

DUIGUY · February 8, 2007 9:28AM

LOVE your "Alabamer Slammer" , Mr spud ! The others to of course !!

edited for spelling

tmot99 · February 8, 2007 12:04PM

Zoins, I think you have valid points, but HK didn't ever say that SCDs are strictly limited to expos/fairs. In general, they were issued to celebrate something or someone. In general, the world's fairs were a celebration of something. For example, the 1893 Columbian Expo was to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus discovering America, even though the fair was a year late. Many of the medals were sold in order to raise funds for the event. The Carter Harrison medal (765/766) was given to those who contributed to the memorial.

As far as the military medals of WWI and WWII, they were not issued by the Army, or Navy, etc. They were a celebration of the victories of those wars. An example, HK901/902 was a medal given to military on the "good guys" side. Similar medals were issued here and in Europe. Each country had their own design, though it had to be within certain agreed upon guidelines. They were issued to the military on a hanging ribbon. I can provide a picture if you need. However, try to find one without a hanger. I'm not certain to whom these non-hanging medals were issued, but they are there. Only the US design is included as the HK book limits to US issued medals.

Heck, we can even talk about the boxing medals. It celebrated 3 different boxing championships. Historical event? Person? Certainly not fair.

You specifically point out corporate events. The "private issue" has absolutely no guidelines within SCDs. I don't know anybody that has classified SCDs by what company minted the medals. With corporate events, some of this can be argued. The American Airlines medal that you picked out maybe should, maybe shouldn't be included. It can easily be argued that the medal is commemorating the first jet flight across America. It can also be argued that it is an advertising medal. Same goes for the Wells Fargo medal. It can be argued that this medal is as much about the expansion of the West as it is about Wells Fargo. Yet, it is issued by Wells Fargo and could then be called advertising.

Also, all of the categories that you mention can have no date. It shouldn't be limited to just SCDs of people.

Barndog · February 8, 2007 12:10PM

Bear: Shhh! Nothing to see here, folks. Please move along to something worthwhile. SCDs are not worth your time. Stay away from ebay auctions and especially Heritage.

Thank you, have a nice day. Click on another topic please...

coindeuce · February 8, 2007 12:16PM

<< Will prove to be the new, low cost,

undiscovered country. The smart money,

is already gobbling up the good stuff. They

are beautiful, reletively plentiful as to varieties

and still reletively cheap. >>

Relatively cheap in some cases. Not the case with such issues as the one below. Fabulous historical value here. No less than 5 signers of the Declaration of Independence attended the ceremony in N.Y. City harbor marking the official opening of the Erie Canal, at which these were presented as gifts - not sold, as is the case with many SCD's marking fairs or expos.

Numismanic · February 8, 2007 12:17PM

I like 'em!

tmot99 · February 8, 2007 12:27PM

coinduece, beautiful piece. I'd love to own something like that some day.

I generally prefer high relief bronze, though. Here are some of my favorites:

Then there's the proof-like aluminum pieces....

Zoins · February 8, 2007 1:57PM

Thanks for the reply Tmot99. I'm just trying to get a handle on what can be classified as a SCD to have a some better guidelines on deciding what should and should not be classified as a SCD when looking at unclassified things. Some of the things I wrote were just for clarification.

Regarding the WWI Victory Medal, you wrote:

<< As far as the military medals of WWI and WWII, they were not issued by the Army, or Navy, etc. They were a celebration of the victories of those wars. An example, HK901/902 was a medal given to military on the "good guys" side. Similar medals were issued here and in Europe. Each country had their own design, though it had to be within certain agreed upon guidelines. They were issued to the military on a hanging ribbon. I can provide a picture if you need. However, try to find one without a hanger. I'm not certain to whom these non-hanging medals were issued, but they are there. Only the US design is included as the HK book limits to US issued medals. >>

I'm not sure who issued the WWI medal but Wikipedia says it was authorized by the Army and Navy:

<< The World War I Victory Medal is a decoration of the United States military which was first created in 1919, designed by James Earle Fraser. The medal was originally intended to be created by an act of the United States Congress, however the bill authorizing the decoration never passed leaving the service departments to create the award through general orders. The United States Army published orders authorizing the World War I Victory Medal in April 1919 and the U.S. Navy followed in June of that same year. >>

Also the Wikipedia WWII Victory Medal page says:

<< The World War II Victory Medal is a decoration of the United States military which was created by an act of Congress in July 1945. The decoration commemorates military service during the Second World War and is awarded to any member of the United States military, including members of the armed forces of the Government of the Philippine Islands, who served on active duty, or as a reservist, between December 7, 1941 and December 31, 1946. >>

I don't need to see an unhooked version as I have seen one available for purchase. However, one question in my mind is how those unhooked ones became available. If they were just test pieces or pieces made by midnight minters, I'm not sure they would qualify as being generally available for victory celebrations. Do you have any history of the unhangered versions besides that they exist? If they were available to the general public for victory celebrations I imagine there would be a lot of information on how they were released to the general public.

<< You specifically point out corporate events. The "private issue" has absolutely no guidelines within SCDs. I don't know anybody that has classified SCDs by what company minted the medals. With corporate events, some of this can be argued. The American Airlines medal that you picked out maybe should, maybe shouldn't be included. It can easily be argued that the medal is commemorating the first jet flight across America. It can also be argued that it is an advertising medal. Same goes for the Wells Fargo medal. It can be argued that this medal is as much about the expansion of the West as it is about Wells Fargo. Yet, it is issued by Wells Fargo and could then be called advertising. >>

The reason I pointed out the First Jet Flight medal is because the issuer seems to be completely unrelated to the event in this case. For many expo/fair medals, it seems the medals were issued by fair participants. For some of the state centennials, the SCDs were commissioned by state anniversary commissions. While there may be no requirement that the SCD be officially issued, I just thought it was an interesting example of one that wasn't. BTW, I really like the HK-296 Wells Fargo Semicentennial SCD as it shows someone taking a shot at an Indian. That's so politically incorrect that it probably wouldn't be issued today but it is a good reminder of the times. I would classify it as a corporate anniversary commemorative but as you say, the themes can be related to an expansion of the West, albeit an expansion by Wells Fargo.

<< Also, all of the categories that you mention can have no date. It shouldn't be limited to just SCDs of people. >>

Thanks for mentioning this. I didn't realize this. In addition to the SCDs themselves, researching the background on these seems just as interesting.

USAROK · February 8, 2007 2:01PM

I've got a small collection. This is one of them:

tmot99 · February 8, 2007 10:21PM

USAROK, nice color on that Type IV Colorado. Just so others know, those are not hairlines all over it. These are very commonly seen with very heavy die scratchs. Is yours graded? I actually bought mine in a ICG 67 holder and thought it was a 65. Cracked it and submitted it to NGC. Came back a 67! I'll try to get good pictures of it. I hate taking pictures through slabs and forgot to take pictures before I sent it in.

CommemDude · February 9, 2007 4:27AM

Bear: I just gave away 10 of these to YNs, some are very reasonable and a great area for YNs when you consider how many recent issues can be found for $30 or less. This is the Pony Express centennial, 1960, and Pony Express Termination,1961. They are worth about $10 in MS65 red, more when slabbed by NGC.

BobaFett72 · February 9, 2007 4:44AM

These are way more interesting than Presidential Dollars

MadMarty · February 9, 2007 4:47AM

As more and more people get interested the prices are going to go up. Some SC$ have a mintage of 50 and less. We have a collector here that in the 70s and 80s would buy them for $1 or two each. Now they are in the hundreds!!

topstuf · February 9, 2007 5:18AM

But where can you GET any?
I mean other than my sigline link. but where else? And especially the Montana one that is on that BST thread. I mean look it up on Heritage. Only a hunnerd of em.
Gosh!

USAROK · February 9, 2007 10:58AM

tmot99: My Type IV Colorado is in an NGC MS66 holder. I wish my pictures of this one were better as they truely don't do it justice. Congratulations on the MS67! I see it has a 2/0 population.

Coin Finder · February 9, 2007 11:05AM

I like to collect them as "states" only, so if it says Utah, or Montana etc.. A SCD States collections is way cool.

I predict, that the....... So Called Dollars

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