Options
Poll: are Jefferson nickels destined to become a classic series?
mirabela
Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
mirabela
0
Comments
<< <i>Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
You ask will they one day be regarded, one day is a very long time so I would have to say yes that one day they will
Rex
So until we can sell Virginia to the russians, Jeffies are screwed!
Going against them are that Jeffs don't have any real low mintage examples. The roll collecting craze was in full swing, so all potential keys have been saved in large numbers. Current sale of rolls from the mint, again means there are lots of nice examples. Unlike the series mentioned, Jeffs are a long set with lots of coins to buy. I see this as another negative. One positive is that a person can get 80% of the coins for a circulated set from searching rolls.
Jeffs are probably destined for a similar fate to the series mentioned in that many folks that complete the set go on to sell it, and that some folks just buy the entire set because there are so many low cost coins.
Even if folks start melting nickels for the metal content, all the uncirculated rolls that have been bought and put away probably mean there well preserved specimens for every date and mintmark.
<< <i>I don't think it has anything to do with "classic" or a lack of respect, I think it's just a matter that they have been so well saved, in high grades, that they will never be as scarce or rare (read "valuable") as the keys from the other series you mentioned...
Rex >>
The steps turn this upside down, plus define "high" grade. Nickel is such a hard metal that high grade mark free coins are hens teeth. Planchet flaws are present on every one of them, nearly. MS62 coins are common, but not GEM+. Then you have to consider how many of these are going to end up in the smelter, a bunch.
will always be modern crap. To those who collect them they are already
a classic closed series with individual characteristics and availabilities.
Most of those who consider them crap will be out of the hobby in twenty
years or even have come to appreciate them, and before that time most
individuals will consider them classic right along with most other coins. It
doesn't seem very many of the young people are buying into the notion
that a coin has to be exactly between 84 and 231 years old to be real.
There are many real coins outside of this range and some of the coins with-
in it are barely real at all.
Who knows in twenty years it might even be popular to collect the yet to
be made moderns again.
Saying they won't be classic is extremely short sighted.
<< <i>I don't think any current design can ever become "classic" if they are never changed. As long as a particular design is commonly still in circulation it's not a classic. >>
I voted "yes", but I agree with Ziggy. A coin must be obsolete to be classic. If a Franklin half can be a classic, so can a workhorse coin like a Jefferson nickel, which has an illustrious history, linked to WWII with a composition change, design changes in the 21st century, etc.
not in the lifetime of my two year old daughter's children, but maybe after that.
I also agree with Barndog in that it might be a while, but I think sooner than he thinks, especially if the series gets terminated. The World War II silver-nickel coins probably can be considered "classic" already.
within a few fews later.
But, will PCGS ever reconize the rarity and beauty
of the six step coins that are out there?
Some of them are quite rare.
Regards, Steve.
The Lincoln cent, Jefferson Nickels, and probably Roosevelt dimes need to be retired in favor of a single 5 cent coin the size of a current dime.
then vending machines could be easily reprogrammed with the new coins worth 5 instead of 10 cents and quarters and dollar coins the same.
when all that happens, obsolete presidents will become more classic
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
San Diego, CA
going to start again? Hasn't everyone noticed that this design has been changed,
or to put it another way; the US mint will never again make the Schlag design of
the Jefferson nickel. It's done. Kaput. It ain't comin' back and the fat lady has sung
her song and gone home. Hey time flies guys even when it's not busily bounding
and leaping. The grammar may be wrong but try reading your coins sometime. It's
history.
At the risk of disturbing your long nap, even the nickel itself appears to be on the
way out. They cost about a dime apiece to make and circulate so it's likely some-
thing will have to give sooner than later. In all probability all those old classic coins
from before 1965 that everyone saved in huge numbers are going to be melted
right al;ong with the billions of nickels made later that no one saved because they
are modern crap. Even all thos nice AU 2003 nickels in circlation will be melted.
It's ironic that some 40% of the buffalo nickels made in tiny quantities and considered
"oh so collectible" by most traditional collectors still survive and are likely to soon out-
number the surviving '65 to '03 coins by more than 10: 1.
I wonder what a really nice, well struck '92-P XF/ AU nickel will be worth in ten years.
I'll bet on a percentage basis it outperforms every single "classic" coin by a factor of
twenty. This would be a conservative guess since some classics might do quite well.
I wonder what a reall badly struck nickel like my icon will be worth in ten years?
San Diego, CA
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think it has anything to do with "classic" or a lack of respect, I think it's just a matter that they have been so well saved, in high grades, that they will never be as scarce or rare (read "valuable") as the keys from the other series you mentioned...
Rex >>
The steps turn this upside down, plus define "high" grade. Nickel is such a hard metal that high grade mark free coins are hens teeth. Planchet flaws are present on every one of them, nearly. MS62 coins are common, but not GEM+. Then you have to consider how many of these are going to end up in the smelter, a bunch. >>
Give'em hell Brian......we know what we're doing!!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>chased with the same volume of cash, >>
The question was about the "same volume of cash." To me it is plain obvious to any objective person that because of the large number of pristine rolls that were bought and saved, plus all the mint sets, that Jeffersons will not be a high cash volume series for dealers, as compared to other coins. There are a couple of years without mint sets, but there is no way those two will make up for all those that are common as dirt.
There may be some high dollar grade rarieties for other years, but there will be like 5 examples at the high grade, high price--that does not translate into dollar volume, even if there is a line on the price chart with a high valuation. Again, even if they start melting nickels for the metal it is extremely unlikely that the pristine rolls will go into the melter because of the low face value.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>
<< <i>chased with the same volume of cash, >>
The question was about the "same volume of cash." To me it is plain obvious to any objective person that because of the large number of pristine rolls that were bought and saved, plus all the mint sets, that Jeffersons will not be a high cash volume series for dealers, as compared to other coins. There are a couple of years without mint sets, but there is no way those two will make up for all those that are common as dirt.
There may be some high dollar grade rarieties for other years, but there will be like 5 examples at the high grade, high price--that does not translate into dollar volume, even if there is a line on the price chart with a high valuation. Again, even if they start melting nickels for the metal it is extremely unlikely that the pristine rolls will go into the melter because of the low face value. >>
In all probability the government will have most of the nickels soon after
the decision is made to replace and melt them. People won't be taking their
BU nickel rolls to the bank to redeem them. So, yes, you're right that very
few rolls are going to be melted. All the rolls already sell for about as much
or more than the metal is likely to be worth for a while.
But, these rolls don't exist in the numbers that people assume they do. Most
collectors stopped all collecting at 1965 and this includes even the nickel which
was unchanged. There were exceedingly few clad rolls set aside over the years
but cent and nickel were not quite so dramatically affected. Cents are cheap to
set aside in quantity so almost all of these are readily available. There are a few
dates in the '80's and '90's that are a little less available. Despite their common-
ness most (or all)have lower numbers available than the pre 1965 cents. Since
there are also huge numbers of the older coins in collections it leaves the moderns
just a little tougher.
Nickels are much more hit and miss. People point to the two that didn't appear in
mint sets as a sort of anomaly but are missing a bigger point; there were more of
these set aside in rolls than other dates of the era!!! Everyone knew there would
be no mint sets and tried to set some aside. Still the supply is insuffient for demand.
The implication is that mint sets are virtually the sole supply of most moderns. Think
about this a second. If mint sets are the primary supply then what's in the mint sets
will mostly be in collections later. But where are the mint sets? They've been chewed
up and spit out over the decades. Coin shops would buy them for less than face and
use the coins in the cash register. And don't believe they pulled out gems first; most
didn't even check them for varieties and still don't. These are available enough to sat-
isfy weak demand but they can't supply a mass market. There are many other impli-
cations here as well. If '82-P nickels are actually common then how are you going to
find the coins that aren't in sets that weren't saved in larger numbers. Varieties are
simply going to be tough except those in circulation which are about to be destroyed.
Even common varieties may turn out to be quite scarce. Also don't write off the other
special issues and coins that don't appear in sets. Granted these are few and far be-
tween in this denomination but they are rife in other denominations.
You're certainly right that a regular BU set of Jeffersons will not contain any rarities. But
many people are not going to be satisfied without some varieties nor will they be satis-
fied with MS-60. Most of these will be upgradable to MS-63 or MS-64 for little cost but
this won't be true for many of the post-65 issues or any of the varieties.
Melting the nickels won't have an impact on the availability of the Jeffersons so much
as on peoples' perception of them. People will be nostalgic and there will be a few
issues made very difficult by melting about 25,000,000,000 coins. When attention
finally gets focused on the Jeffersons then we'll know which are tough and which aren't
so tough.
<< <i>Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
What makes you think that Jefferson nickels aren't already regarded as classics that bring in the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
Recently, in the last month or so, a 1950-D sold for $17,000. Many other Jefferson nickels have sold for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Wouldn't they qualify for a classic series selling for big cash?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>What makes you think that Jefferson nickels aren't already regarded as classics that bring in the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
That's a good question. On the one hand, I have no hard data, and obviously certain coins are already the objects of intense competition in the marketplace. On the other hand, I've been quietly tooling away at a choice & gem unc set, and I have been able to add some outrageously appealing coins to my set for what feels like very small money compared to what it would take to get comparable coins in the aforementioned series -- yet if anything, they have been even harder to find than comparable material in series of more established collector interest. In other words, it does not feel as though there is much competition for anything but the absolute very finest examples.
Edit -- Hi, Leo. Thanks for chiming in. I am slowly figuring out who the Jefferson people around here are. Obviously you are one. Pleased to meet you!
MD
<< <i>
<< <i>Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
What makes you think that Jefferson nickels aren't already regarded as classics that bring in the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
Recently, in the last month or so, a 1950-D sold for $17,000. Many other Jefferson nickels have sold for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Wouldn't they qualify for a classic series selling for big cash?
Leo >>
If I had to guess, I would guess numismatic Jeffs are about 10% of the dollar volume of numismatic Peace dollars. Peace dollars are probably between 1% and 2% of total numismatic trading dollar volume. Other people are welcome to their guesses. For some folks one tenth is close enough to equal, perhaps I am too much a stickler for numbers.
As I always say, collect what you like. Enjoy the hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
What makes you think that Jefferson nickels aren't already regarded as classics that bring in the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
Recently, in the last month or so, a 1950-D sold for $17,000. Many other Jefferson nickels have sold for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Wouldn't they qualify for a classic series selling for big cash?
Leo >>
I don't think they do on this basis. If you add up the total value times
the populations these still constitute a tiny segment of the market.
Of course that doesn't mean that it can't change as time goes on.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters? >>
What makes you think that Jefferson nickels aren't already regarded as classics that bring in the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
Recently, in the last month or so, a 1950-D sold for $17,000. Many other Jefferson nickels have sold for hundreds and thousands of dollars. Wouldn't they qualify for a classic series selling for big cash?
Leo >>
If I had to guess, I would guess numismatic Jeffs are about 10% of the dollar volume of numismatic Peace dollars. Peace dollars are probably between 1% and 2% of total numismatic trading dollar volume. Other people are welcome to their guesses. For some folks one tenth is close enough to equal, perhaps I am too much a stickler for numbers.
As I always say, collect what you like. Enjoy the hobby. >>
Mirabela
I'm pleased to meet you too. You can see some 250 nickels in my profile.
Redtiger
That sounds about right. While I can afford some nickels for less than a $1000, a complete Gem Peace dollar collection is out of my reach.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
They give true meaning to the term " modern junk ".
well, actually no it wasn't, that's only part of what the question was. here it is in it's entirity:
Will these coins one day be regarded with the same respect and enthusiasm, and chased with the same volume of cash, as are 20th century classics such as Peace dollars, Mercury dimes, Walker halves and Standing Liberty quarters?
in some ways they already are held in high regard by some of us and collected with enthusiasm. there are keys to the series although that status is often predicated by grade since most of the dates are readily available and with some patience can still be found in pocket change. as others have mentioned, the series is already closed, at least the obverse is closed. a consideration for all ModernCrap™ might be that dealers will eventually play out the string on 19th Century coinage and will then be forced to move forward or close up shop. how long can they continue to rely on each other to support the price structure of coins??
So I'd say the "old" Jefferson set can be referred to as the "Classic Jefferson Set", and the '38 to date set would be the "Classic Jefferson Set plus new varieties".
The next generation will look at the Jeffs, as old coinage, just as we look at the Buffalos, and although the design isn't as artistic as the Buffs, in the future to the next generation, the Jeffs will just be another set from "before I was born", and will be collected just as we collect coins from before we were born.
If you subscribe to the thought that the world began when you were born, and ends when you die, none of this applies, but if you realize the effects of time, all current "modern coins" will eventually be replaced by new "modern coins", and the coins we now call "modern" will, in time, become "classic".
ps. For those who don't think much of the Jeffs as collectible, get 100 (or 1000) or so varied date mint sets, and a few 100 (or 1000) rolls and try to find the high grade full steppers.
<< <i>Sure. They already are a great set to collect, affordable and challenging. They never will be considered a "precious metal" set, so (1964 was so arbitrary where this set is concerned) that isn't an issue, so "cut-off" dates will only be when the series stops, or changes drastically, and it looks like that has already taken place just recently with the "new look" obverse and new reverse(s).
So I'd say the "old" Jefferson set can be referred to as the "Classic Jefferson Set", and the '38 to date set would be the "Classic Jefferson Set plus new varieties".
The next generation will look at the Jeffs, as old coinage, just as we look at the Buffalos, and although the design isn't as artistic as the Buffs, in the future to the next generation, the Jeffs will just be another set from "before I was born", and will be collected just as we collect coins from before we were born.
If you subscribe to the thought that the world began when you were born, and ends when you die, none of this applies, but if you realize the effects of time, all current "modern coins" will eventually be replaced by new "modern coins", and the coins we now call "modern" will, in time, become "classic".
ps. For those who don't think much of the Jeffs as collectible, get 100 (or 1000) or so varied date mint sets, and a few 100 (or 1000) rolls and try to find the high grade full steppers.
What RegistryCoin said!
How's that WHO song go; "Won't be fooled again!"
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>When you have coins like this, they already are a "classic"!!!
I just sold one of them I made myself, I love the Jeff's but I needed cash. I will make another one soon. I have 15 early Jeffs at PCGS for grading and they are staying with me. 1938 - 1942-d plus a 1946 . Hoping for the best.
I have always collected this series and have hoped for the best. I have owned 3 1972 no s proofs and some top pop SMS.
They WILL become classics one day when collectors stop poo-poo'ing them.
I do think these will be regarded as classics. The design is actually nice and the series is quite popular.
<< <i>I do think these will be regarded as classics. The design is actually nice and the series is quite popular. >>
If they discontinue the design, I agree they can be. I just don't know if something can be called a "classic" type if it's still being produced.
I suppose early Lincolns (say 1909-1933 or so) could be considered classic, but half of that type is obsolete.
<< <i>If they discontinue the series it will become classic,
within a few fews later.
But, will PCGS ever reconize the rarity and beauty
of the six step coins that are out there?
Some of them are quite rare.
Regards, Steve. >>
They did discontinue the series in 2003. The Jefferson nickel went through a design change in 2006. Of course, the change only occured on the obverse. And yes, it's still Thomas Jefferson. But the Lincoln cent went through a similar change in 1959 where only the reverse design was changed. As others have mentioned, yeah the nickel needs a major change to make it a classic. Then let me say this, because the Jefferson nickel series is so long, it's the 1938 to 1970 set that will be the collection to complete. The reason lies in the fact that most of those dates were made from one set of Master hubs, the reverse of 1939 was used on all regular issues through 1970. When the US Mint officially ended the use of the Obverse of 1938 and Reverse of 1939 Master hubs after 1970 and created new master hubs for 1971, this marked an end to an era, a series that will be very difficult to complete. And to think this happened 37 years ago!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>If they discontinue the series it will become classic,
within a few fews later.
But, will PCGS ever reconize the rarity and beauty
of the six step coins that are out there?
Some of them are quite rare.
Regards, Steve. >>
They did discontinue the series in 2003. The Jefferson nickel went through a design change in 2006. Of course, the change only occured on the obverse. And yes, it's still Thomas Jefferson. But the Lincoln cent went through a similar change in 1959 where only the reverse design was changed. As others have mentioned, yeah the nickel needs a major change to make it a classic. Then let me say this, because the Jefferson nickel series is so long, it's the 1938 to 1970 set that will be the collection to complete. The reason lies in the fact that most of those dates were made from one set of Master hubs, the reverse of 1939 was used on all regular issues through 1970. When the US Mint officially ended the use of the Obverse of 1938 and Reverse of 1939 Master hubs after 1970 and created new master hubs for 1971, this marked an end to an era, a series that will be very difficult to complete. And to think this happened 37 years ago!
Leo >>
While that is all very interesting, to a simpleton like me, they still look the same (through 2003) and are close enough in name and form to be the same now. Until they change the name and design (ie. the Pelosi nickel
<< <i> >>
While that is all very interesting, to a simpleton like me, they still look the same (through 2003) and are close enough in name and form to be the same now. Until they change the name and design (ie. the Pelosi nickel
I suppose the Gods sit around debating whether or not US coins are collectible since they aren't a closed series.
<< <i>
While that is all very interesting, to a simpleton like me, they still look the same (through 2003) and are close enough in name and form to be the same now. Until they change the name and design (ie. the Pelosi nickel
They are very close to being a melted series.
<< <i>Personally, I'm afraid I've got the bug but good.
Very nice mirabela and someone posted a nice 1939.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
While that is all very interesting, to a simpleton like me, they still look the same (through 2003) and are close enough in name and form to be the same now. Until they change the name and design (ie. the Pelosi nickel
I suppose the Gods sit around debating whether or not US coins are collectible since they aren't a closed series.
I never suggested that is was not collectible, just not classic. I do not think that a coin type that you can readily find in pocket change is classic, but frankly, it was the obsoletes that attracted me to coins in the first place.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.