I dont understand the resistance to a reserve. If you ask, they usually tell you. Some even post it in the listing. It's been stated before, but lots of big auction houses have reserves. If you had a coin that you paid $1000 for and wanted to make sure you didnt lose money on it, wouldnt you set a reserve to avoid taking a bath on the sale?
I ingore them for the most part but if it's something I really like I'll try and snipe it at the last second. The result is it usually doesn't make reserve at my price or the seller had a fairly low reserve but not too many bid and I got a steal with no one after me being able to bid on the item. Meeting reserve too soon if the price is right isn't good for the buyer. A better way is a realistic starting price with a "offer" option IMO.
<< <i>I have noticed that many, if not most coins on eBay that have reserves get very few bids and rarely sell. I was thinking that the reserve must be too high, but in a lot of these cases the few bidders that do bid don't even get the bid up to anywhere near grey-sheet bid. In some reserve auctions, there is a BIN way above what is reasonable, which may serve as a tip-off that the reserve will probably be too high, but a lot of times there isn't a BIN, and still there are fewer bidders than average, and a closing price not anywhere close to bid. Do you just ignore auctions with reserves? What are your assumptions when you see a reserve auction? Do you think that dealers that use a reserve don't want to sell, or are they just fishing for a "bidiot"? >>
I'm a full-time coin dealer and sell a lot of coins on eBay, and although I rarely have a reserve, it works for me about 30% of the time. Still, with a reserve, the bids are still generally well under my cost and well under Graysheet wholesale, and I don't handle low end coins, as many of you may know.
Heck, most large national catalog auctions have reserves on all or most of the significant items, yet most will sell if the reserve is fair, and most times, the reserve is well over Graysheet bid. Think anyone can buy a nice smooth Chain Cent at bid or below?
My eBay rep tells me to start low and with no reserve, but whenever I've done that, the final price has been about 60% of my cost and I've lost a bundle. That simply makes no sense. Sure, eBay gets its final value fee and they could care less if i lose thousands of dollars on a sale. I certainly am not fishing for a "bidiot" by using a reserve, but I only wish to make a fair markup on a quality item. You think that's wrong?
Ira >>
Hey, Ira,
I watch your coins all the time and drool. The price for the nice stuff you carry is usually a tad out of my realm....but, if you have any of those "60% of cost and losing a bundle", just let me know I'd be there
btw....really nice looking items you have up right now
When I see an auction that has a bid, and the auction is for an item I wish to add to my collection, I always ask the seller what the reserve has been set to.
99 out of 100 sellers respond with the reserve amount.
Knowing this amount lets me know how much I will have to bid at a minimum to win the item. If I think the reserve is too high, then I just don't bid.
I look at reserves the same way I look at auction starting bids. If the starting bid is more than I am willing to pay, I just move on.
Now another question, whats the big deal as to whether an auction had a reserve or not? Most public auctions certainly don't start at 1 cent or 99 cents, they start at a preset amount determined by the auctioneer. In the case of EBay, the seller IS the auctioneer.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>No, I consider the reserve for what it is. eBay is a place for the occasional bargain but when buying coins anywhere generally there aren't bargains on truly nice coins in public sales. Not everything selling on eBay is a liquidation. So why should everything be a true auction without reserve of a sane opening bid? One can buy both the fire sale bargains and the outright sales there. The latter might be for the coins you really want and a sale anywhere is an opportunity to add that coin. You gotta buy retail sometimes if you want a nice collection. >>
Thanks for a sane and cogent reponse. As you wrote, not every sale on eBay is a true liquidation sale, and it shouldn't be. It's interesting that offtimes, those that are looking to rip a real steal on eBay often get ripped off themselves. eBay is a marketpace filled with honest and knowledgeable sellers, uneducated sellers, downright fraudulent sellers, and a combination of the last two.
I used to be in the real estate business for 30 years before I became a full-time coin dealer, and there were always those customers that were looking for the bargain of the century. You could show them a house in the area they said they wanted with all the features they said were must haves, and they still wouldn't buy. When asked why, they would say that in their opinion, the house was overpriced and they would only pay 75% of the asking price, if that. When told that houses with those features in the neighborhood they desired were never priced that low, they would answer, "That's okay. I'm in no hurry. Call me when such a house IS available." I learned to drop these prospects early on. If I hadn't, I'd have starved.
Manty oif the respondents to the original post remind me of such buyers.
<< <i>I used to be in the real estate business for 30 years before I became a full-time coin dealer, and there were always those customers that were looking for the bargain of the century. ...I learned to drop these prospects early on. If I hadn't, I'd have starved.
Many of the respondents to the original post remind me of such buyers.
Over the past 6 months, I have basically quit using reserves and start everything at 99c becuase I was not getting intrest from bidders on lots of the items. Sometimes only to be listed again and selling for a little more. For some reason, bidders feel more comfortable when they see other bidders bidding (underbidder support). Once in a while, Ill take it in the shorts so I have to be very selective in my buying for re-sell and only purchase items I think will have good bidding intrest. I beleive in keeping auctions fair and honest and will even take a loss at times if the intrest is low and price realized come out lower than expected, but you can bet your *ss I will not let a 1000.00 item sell for 100 bucks.
Judging from the tone of replies the majority train of thought seems to be" If I can't rip it I don't want it". This mindset is just one of the reasons quality coins and quality dealers are slowly abandoning ebay. Some other reasons are ebay's ever increasing fees and the hordes of third world holdered coins that have saturated ebay. It's pretty apparent from following these no reserve auctions of NTC, NNC, SGS crap that there is where most of the action is and most of the money is being made. The really quality coins aren't found in flea markets. One has to travel across the country attending shows and auctions and spending a lot of time and money. Upon returning home and uploading these coins on ebay it is necessary to add a 7% markup just to cover ebay and paypal fees. Another 10% will cover overhead and travel expenses providing enough volumne is transacted. So if the coins are marked up 20% that leaves damn little profit. Since a large number of buyers would rather spend their money on photoshopped third world slabs in grades of ms 67, 68 or even 69 which are in most cases actually 3 to 4 grades below that if not body bag candidates, A dealer in high end coins just can't compete on ebay. Auctions with reserves are ignored in favor of no reserve auctions where there are any number of bidders anxious to play Russian Roulette with these coins. You know --- when you win you lose! Just follow auctions of generic gold Saints. Most that are labeled ms 66 will go for $1000 to $ 1250 depending on how the picture is. Even in the rare instances when these coins will actually grade only two grades lower at at PCGS, the buyer still is paying moon money. But it seems to be more fun than buying a really neat high end Saint for a small premium. If a dealer does list a quality coin with no reserve and after 9 days with twelve hours to go sees that his $3000 coin has a total of 17 bids, the highest being $117.07 he has two choices 1. Let it ride hoping that somehow the snipers will ride to the rescue but prepare himself for a huge loss or 2. End the auction. Remember even if someone enters a legitimate bid of say $2800 he will still rip the coin for only one increment over the underbidder. This is not meant to be a pity me rant, but just an observation as to why ebay is fast becoming a junk yard and a great venue to rid oneself of unwanted low end coins. While the charlatans are having a field day cashing in on this unregulated market, The legitimate dealers are are finding alternate avenues in order to place their quality coins coins with willing collectors. It's interesting to note as I mentioned in a previous post one particular dealer's solution. This Orlando based firm has a good reputation for deaing in high end coins.They seem to have solved all the issues I have listed above. They apparently have two inventories. One for shows where they are well respected among other dealers and only display top qujality coins graded by PCGS or NGC. The other inventory is strictlyfor ebay and is almost exclusively NTC coins that always start at 99c and no reserve. On the occasions when they list PCGS graded coins they are almost always listed with a minimum bid. This seems to at least partially validate the premises of this post. Meanwhile I have abandoned ebay auctions and only sell from my ebay store where The listings are much less expensive but still have to be sold for more than for the same coins listed on my website. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer. David J Weygant Rare Coins
A reserve does not change my opinion one way or the other. I know what i want to pay. I bid it late in the auction. I have also sold some better quality coins in auctions with reserves, and was totally satisfied with the price. Why miss out on a good coin just because it has a reserve?
Although I haven't read all the responses. the topic caught my eye. I've been trying to sell off some of my commemoratives in order to support my Buffalo nickel addition. I have some pieces on Ebay (please, this is not a solicitation) ending in the next hour or so. I've tried with fix prices not only on Ebay but also on the BST board. I post large, quality images, offer a solid return policy and have perfect, praise-worthy feedback. However, all I get are lookers. I took these same coins, put them at a 99c start, put in a reasonable BIN (that disappears with the first bid). Guess what? They will probably sell more than my original asking price. This is not my only experience. Rarely do I sell a coin at a fixed price, high reserve, etc. I am mst successful (sold items and financially) when the buyer perceives the opportunity to get a nice coin at a great bargain. And, as a buyer, I only look at items that are truly an uctuauction.
Whether or not an auction has a reserve has no bearing on my bidding habits or my price. If I want something, I decide beforehand the most I am willing to pay, and I place a proxy bid or I snipe it--if I meet the reserve great, if not--great. I don't overspend because of a high reserve, and I don't believe in picking apart bids or nibbling around the edges--I bid once, and that's that. I do notice that reserves are deterents to bidders though, probably because they don't have the same philosophy as me. They are the same people who get caught up in "bidding wars" and wind up spending way too much just so somebody else can't have it, or they feel a sense of entitlement that they must win at all costs. I never understood that. Everything is usually for sale in triplicate on ebay--or more.
A reserve does not change my opinion one way or the other. I know what i want to pay. I bid it late in the auction. I have also sold some better quality coins in auctions with reserves, and was totally satisfied with the price. Why miss out on a good coin just because it has a reserve? I usually start my auctions at 99 cents with no reserve because i want to sell the coins to free up money for other coins that i may want or need. But then i don't sell many high priced coins on ebay. If i snipe late in the auction and it does not meet the reserve, so what? The seller is the loser he has to list it again at a lower reserve or try the same reserve again and hope someone that did not see it before bids high on it. Having said that, i can see no reason for someone putting a $500 reserve on a $200 coin, although many do. Bob
Usually a waste of time to bid on reserve auctions, I would prefer a min bid and go from there. As A ebay buyer I will say that in the last week there was a few coins I would have bought if the seller would have responded to my e-mail asking the reserve. On the other hand it is there coin and they can sell it however is best for them. AL
Sometimes the reserve is quite reasonable. Sometimes it is even below market. It scares many people away, so often there is very little competition. I have made a few good scores sniping auctions with reserves. If the coin is decent, there is no reason not to try to get it at a price that works for you.
Let's say you are willing to pay $360 for the coin. One way or another, that's what you bid. In a true auction, you may or may not get it at or below your price. In a reserve auction, you may or may not get it at or below your price. What's the difference?
Why does eBay offer a reserve at all? If eBay has as many trusted, registered bidders as they claim, this would be close to a perfect market, and all auctions would start at less than a dollar, ending up at the true market value. In a perfect market, all sellers would provide all information the bidders need to assess the item's value, no matter what they paid for the item. A seller should be able to start an auction at the minimum he would accept, but many sellers gamble with a low starting bid to attract attention, hoping that two or more knowledgeable bidders will bring the price up to their cost and beyond.
Unfortunately, more sellers and bidders than eBay is willing to admit can't be trusted, and the public knows this. Many who play the eBay game place low bids on lots of items and end up getting only cheap stuff despite of their quest for the rip. eBay is gaining a reputation as a dumping ground which enriches only the venue and those PowerSellers who make a living off the imperfections of this market (newbie bidders, those must-have hurried buyers who don't read the descriptions or fall for impartial disclosure). Some bidders realize that there are enough imperfections in the eBay game that they will ignore quality items priced with a fair reserve, hoping to find something of similar quality at a bargain price (which happens occasionally).
A reserve tells me that the seller wants to break even, after fees, but relies on a few cheapskates to get the bidding started. If I see a coin I like, I'll bid what I can afford, based on the seller's description and pictures. Usually, a bid I place which does not meet reserve is quickly forgotten. Only once have I actually purchased a coin where my bid was close to the seller's reserve, and the seller of that coin happened to be Ira.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor
I usually do not sell coins, but I am a power seller, and I never use the reserve or best offer. I tell the people what I want with buy now and usually get it.
Comments
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
<< <i>Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd...I start a lot of my auctions at $1 and have had great success >>
Start 'em at 99c instead -- you'll make 15c more per auction.
<< <i><< Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd...I start a lot of my auctions at $1 and have had great success >>
Start 'em at 99c instead -- you'll make 15c more per auction. >>
True, but then he couldn't look forward to a discount on 20c listing day.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>I have noticed that many, if not most coins on eBay that have reserves get very few bids and rarely sell. I was thinking that the reserve must be too high, but in a lot of these cases the few bidders that do bid don't even get the bid up to anywhere near grey-sheet bid. In some reserve auctions, there is a BIN way above what is reasonable, which may serve as a tip-off that the reserve will probably be too high, but a lot of times there isn't a BIN, and still there are fewer bidders than average, and a closing price not anywhere close to bid.
Do you just ignore auctions with reserves?
What are your assumptions when you see a reserve auction? Do you think that dealers that use a reserve don't want to sell, or are they just fishing for a "bidiot"? >>
I'm a full-time coin dealer and sell a lot of coins on eBay, and although I rarely have a reserve, it works for me about 30% of the time. Still, with a reserve, the bids are still generally well under my cost and well under Graysheet wholesale, and I don't handle low end coins, as many of you may know.
Heck, most large national catalog auctions have reserves on all or most of the significant items, yet most will sell if the reserve is fair, and most times, the reserve is well over Graysheet bid. Think anyone can buy a nice smooth Chain Cent at bid or below?
My eBay rep tells me to start low and with no reserve, but whenever I've done that, the final price has been about 60% of my cost and I've lost a bundle. That simply makes no sense. Sure, eBay gets its final value fee and they could care less if i lose thousands of dollars on a sale. I certainly am not fishing for a "bidiot" by using a reserve, but I only wish to make a fair markup on a quality item. You think that's wrong?
Ira >>
Hey, Ira,
I watch your coins all the time and drool. The price for the nice stuff you carry is usually a tad out of my realm....but, if you have any of those "60% of cost and losing a bundle", just let me know
btw....really nice looking items you have up right now
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
99 out of 100 sellers respond with the reserve amount.
Knowing this amount lets me know how much I will have to bid at a minimum to win the item. If I think the reserve is too high, then I just don't bid.
I look at reserves the same way I look at auction starting bids. If the starting bid is more than I am willing to pay, I just move on.
Now another question, whats the big deal as to whether an auction had a reserve or not? Most public auctions certainly don't start at 1 cent or 99 cents, they start at a preset amount determined by the auctioneer. In the case of EBay, the seller IS the auctioneer.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>No, I consider the reserve for what it is. eBay is a place for the occasional bargain but when buying coins anywhere generally there aren't bargains on truly nice coins in public sales. Not everything selling on eBay is a liquidation. So why should everything be a true auction without reserve of a sane opening bid? One can buy both the fire sale bargains and the outright sales there. The latter might be for the coins you really want and a sale anywhere is an opportunity to add that coin. You gotta buy retail sometimes if you want a nice collection. >>
Thanks for a sane and cogent reponse. As you wrote, not every sale on eBay is a true liquidation sale, and it shouldn't be. It's interesting that offtimes, those that are looking to rip a real steal on eBay often get ripped off themselves. eBay is a marketpace filled with honest and knowledgeable sellers, uneducated sellers, downright fraudulent sellers, and a combination of the last two.
I used to be in the real estate business for 30 years before I became a full-time coin dealer, and there were always those customers that were looking for the bargain of the century. You could show them a house in the area they said they wanted with all the features they said were must haves, and they still wouldn't buy. When asked why, they would say that in their opinion, the house was overpriced and they would only pay 75% of the asking price, if that. When told that houses with those features in the neighborhood they desired were never priced that low, they would answer, "That's okay. I'm in no hurry. Call me when such a house IS available." I learned to drop these prospects early on. If I hadn't, I'd have starved.
Manty oif the respondents to the original post remind me of such buyers.
Ira
<< <i>I used to be in the real estate business for 30 years before I became a full-time coin dealer, and there were always those customers that were looking for the bargain of the century. ...I learned to drop these prospects early on. If I hadn't, I'd have starved.
Many of the respondents to the original post remind me of such buyers.
Ira >>
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
jim
Some other reasons are ebay's ever increasing fees and the hordes of third world holdered coins that have saturated ebay.
It's pretty apparent from following these no reserve auctions of NTC, NNC, SGS crap that there is where most of the action is and most of the money is being made.
The really quality coins aren't found in flea markets. One has to travel across the country attending shows and auctions and spending a lot of time and money. Upon returning home and uploading these coins on ebay it is necessary to add a 7% markup just to cover ebay and paypal fees. Another 10% will cover overhead and travel expenses providing enough volumne is transacted. So if the coins are marked up 20% that leaves damn little profit.
Since a large number of buyers would rather spend their money on photoshopped third world slabs in grades of ms 67, 68 or even 69 which are in most cases actually 3 to 4 grades below that if not body bag candidates, A dealer in high end coins just can't compete on ebay.
Auctions with reserves are ignored in favor of no reserve auctions where there are any number of bidders anxious to play Russian Roulette with these coins. You know --- when you win you lose!
Just follow auctions of generic gold Saints. Most that are labeled ms 66 will go for $1000 to $ 1250 depending on how the picture is. Even in the rare instances when these coins will actually grade only two grades lower at at PCGS, the buyer still is paying moon money. But it seems to be more fun than buying a really neat high end Saint for a small premium.
If a dealer does list a quality coin with no reserve and after 9 days with twelve hours to go sees that his $3000 coin has a total of 17 bids, the highest being $117.07 he has two choices 1. Let it ride hoping that somehow the snipers will ride to the rescue but prepare himself for a huge loss or 2. End the auction. Remember even if someone enters a legitimate bid of say $2800 he will still rip the coin for only one increment over the underbidder.
This is not meant to be a pity me rant, but just an observation as to why ebay is fast becoming a junk yard and a great venue to rid oneself of unwanted low end coins.
While the charlatans are having a field day cashing in on this unregulated market, The legitimate dealers are are finding alternate avenues in order to place their quality coins coins with willing collectors.
It's interesting to note as I mentioned in a previous post one particular dealer's solution. This Orlando based firm has a good reputation for deaing in high end coins.They seem to have solved all the issues I have listed above. They apparently have two inventories. One for shows where they are well respected among other dealers and only display top qujality coins graded by PCGS or NGC. The other inventory is strictlyfor ebay and is almost exclusively NTC coins that always start at 99c and no reserve. On the occasions when they list PCGS graded coins they are almost always listed with a minimum bid. This seems to at least partially validate the premises of this post.
Meanwhile I have abandoned ebay auctions and only sell from my ebay store where The listings are much less expensive but still have to be sold for more than for the same coins listed on my website. Dave W
The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.
David J Weygant Rare Coins
Yes.
David
I usually start my auctions at 99 cents with no reserve because i want to sell the coins to free up money for other coins that i may want or need. But then i don't sell many high priced coins on ebay.
If i snipe late in the auction and it does not meet the reserve, so what? The seller is the loser he has to list it again at a lower reserve or try the same reserve again and hope someone that did not see it before bids high on it.
Having said that, i can see no reason for someone putting a $500 reserve on a $200 coin, although many do. Bob
AL
Let's say you are willing to pay $360 for the coin. One way or another, that's what you bid. In a true auction, you may or may not get it at or below your price. In a reserve auction, you may or may not get it at or below your price. What's the difference?
Unfortunately, more sellers and bidders than eBay is willing to admit can't be trusted, and the public knows this. Many who play the eBay game place low bids on lots of items and end up getting only cheap stuff despite of their quest for the rip. eBay is gaining a reputation as a dumping ground which enriches only the venue and those PowerSellers who make a living off the imperfections of this market (newbie bidders, those must-have hurried buyers who don't read the descriptions or fall for impartial disclosure). Some bidders realize that there are enough imperfections in the eBay game that they will ignore quality items priced with a fair reserve, hoping to find something of similar quality at a bargain price (which happens occasionally).
A reserve tells me that the seller wants to break even, after fees, but relies on a few cheapskates to get the bidding started. If I see a coin I like, I'll bid what I can afford, based on the seller's description and pictures. Usually, a bid I place which does not meet reserve is quickly forgotten. Only once have I actually purchased a coin where my bid was close to the seller's reserve, and the seller of that coin happened to be Ira.