"false advertising, threaten to neg him if he doesnt refund"
The threat to neg is called feedback extortion. It's a big no-no with ebay and can you suspended from trading on their venue.
Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there
is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." --- Gospel of Thomas (Lamdin translation)
Geez, it sounds like ebay is crazy about the fb extortion. I thought a solid case of extortion was something like, "I don't like this item as much as I thought I would, but I still want to keep it. Give me a 50% refund or I'll neg you."
It would seem to me that an explanation of the facts, a review of the return policy, and a hint about "acting in a manner consistent with your outstanding current feedback rating" would get the point across while staying under the radar of the ebay drones.
FWIW I wouldn't want to be the buyer in this situation. The title and original description references to "NGC" could be dismissed as a mere typo (no wonder how the con artists at "NGS" picked their name and slab appearance), because, after all, the photo was accurate (and there's no confusing those labels) -- and the correct information added to the description before the bid was made. (Just to be clear, the description itself was not "revised." It merely had information added to it in accordance with ebay's rules about revising auctions 12h before end.)
"I thought a solid case of extortion was something like, "I don't like this item as much as I thought I would, but I still want to keep it. Give me a 50% refund or I'll neg you." ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Yes. You are correct. Merely stating that you will NEG somebody absent their compliance with their listings' terms is NOT FB-extortion, under the EBAY TOS. ......................................................................... //////////////////////////////////////////
"The title and original description references to "NGC" could be dismissed as a mere typo..." ................................................................
Seller is still blamed for the buyer's confusion, under EBAY's "misleading title" TOS. ....................................................................... ///////////////////////////////////////////
"It merely had information added to it in accordance with ebay's rules about revising auctions 12h before end." ...................................................................
Sellers can ADD to listings' description, notwithstanding the amount of time left. ........................................ /////////////////////////////////////////////
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
The seller misrepresented the coin in the title and in the description. Whatever his intentions were, he did not provide an accurate description and is responsible for the error. He did not supply an NGC coin, and is culpable for the damages. Collecting is another matter all together.
Too bad we can't bring back the "Tar and Feather" method of punishment.
<< <i>This burn is a slam-dunk for a refund from PayPal, first resort; credit-card company, last resort. If PayPal says "no," just call your credit card company >>
The timing on this can be somewhat problematic as PP suggests that you wait 45 days following the close of the transaction, I believe, before you initiate activity in their "resolution center" to give time for self-policing, and some CC companies want you to act within 30 days, so sometimes the timing makes for a tough decision. Also, if PP knows or finds out that you went to your CC Co., they will immediately stop their investigation/resolution process, I believe.
"The timing on this can be somewhat problematic as PP suggests that you wait 45 days following the close of the transaction, I believe, before you initiate activity in their "resolution center" to give time for self-policing, and some CC companies want you to act within 30 days, so sometimes the timing makes for a tough decision. Also, if PP knows or finds out that you went to your CC Co., they will immediately stop their investigation/resolution process, I believe. "
////////////////////////////////////////
You must file your PayPal claim within 45-days of the transaction, or you are out of the game. You should always file immediately when you discover the problem.
ALL credit card companies are VERY flexible on time limits. Some will open a chargeback between 180-days and 360-days after the complained of transaction. Most CC companies tell their customers to "let us know within 30-days," but none of them can enforce that and they do not try to.
PayPal is VERY punitive toward customers who go to their CC company before PayPal has "completed the dispute/claim process." They routinely cancel the PayPal accounts of customers who go nuclear too soon. You must allow PayPal to finish their look-see, if you want to stay friendly with them.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Thanks Storm888, for making that clearer. It is a tricky and sometimes complicated path. I hope that in this particular case, the buyer is able to find resolution, and that this discussion may help others if/when a problem occurs.
With Zero negative feedback and his obvious attempt to Fix the Problem ( The addition to the description 9 Hours BEFORE YOUR BID ) I think he will be reasonable to a return if you are reasonable with your interaction with them. No one likes to be called 'names', you become defensive. His return policy is a joke "can not be removed from original holder and/or plastic flips" yes but "if removed from original holder or packaging, if it is damaged or the seal on the packaging is broken" is obsurd and even EBAY will laugh at that one. It is in the original holder so it is returnable in my opinion, obviously your going to open the package .
Deal with the vendor via PHONE as it is a little more personal and you can discuss your problem with a little more clearity than by Email
I also left him a little blurb via contact ...
"Sir as One vendor to another you should handle this problem quickly and discreetly as this problem is becoming VERY PUBLIC. US 1926 NGC MS63 $2 1/2 INDIAN ( Title And Description as stated is false wether there is an 'addition' to the description or not ) Regards, Mike"
<< <i>I need your input. Have you ever made a purchase on ebay and were shipped something different? What recourse would I have besides Paypal or filing a dispute?
Here's what happened:
I bought a gold coin, with several descriptions as a NGC, but when I got it it was a NGS. NGS was mentioned in a afterthought 4 hours before closing. The guy doesn't want to refund. What do you guys think?
100% feedback and the other listing are correct. Type-o. The picture is clearly NGS. SOOOOOOOOOOO, why are you doing this????
Do you like the coin? Do you feel you were ripped off because of the holder? Is is a matter of principal?
He made a mistake and tried to correct it before there were bids. You can go after him for TOS on Ebay and get a charge back on PayPal. All of the regulations are in favor of the buyer, basically none for the seller.
Will it make you "feel" better to go after him especially since he will not accept a return.
Ask more questions of him and yourself, but so not threaten him with negs and the likes, you'll get Naru'd for that.
"I thought a solid case of extortion was something like, "I don't like this item as much as I thought I would, but I still want to keep it. Give me a 50% refund or I'll neg you." ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Yes. You are correct. Merely stating that you will NEG somebody absent their compliance with their listings' terms is NOT FB-extortion, under the EBAY TOS.
Technically, you guys might be right but keep in mind that ebay's balance scale of justice tends to tip to the seller's side, especially if the seller is established. Seller fees for ebay are not without weight, if you know what I mean. Its possible for a buyer to be both swindled and Naru'd. It has happened.
A buyer should not document a threat to neg through email. If one must, do it on the phone.The possibility is high that a buyer will "blow his case" by doing a threat to neg by "writing" it.
Just trying to be helpful.
Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there
is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." --- Gospel of Thomas (Lamdin translation)
Comments
The threat to neg is called feedback extortion. It's a big no-no with ebay and can you suspended from trading on their venue.
Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there
is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." --- Gospel of Thomas (Lamdin translation)
It would seem to me that an explanation of the facts, a review of the return policy, and a hint about "acting in a manner consistent with your outstanding current feedback rating" would get the point across while staying under the radar of the ebay drones.
FWIW I wouldn't want to be the buyer in this situation. The title and original description references to "NGC" could be dismissed as a mere typo (no wonder how the con artists at "NGS" picked their name and slab appearance), because, after all, the photo was accurate (and there's no confusing those labels) -- and the correct information added to the description before the bid was made. (Just to be clear, the description itself was not "revised." It merely had information added to it in accordance with ebay's rules about revising auctions 12h before end.)
"I don't like this item as much as I thought I would, but
I still want to keep it. Give me a 50% refund or I'll neg you."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Yes. You are correct. Merely stating that you will NEG
somebody absent their compliance with their listings' terms is
NOT FB-extortion, under the EBAY TOS.
.........................................................................
//////////////////////////////////////////
"The title and original description references to "NGC" could be dismissed as a mere typo..."
................................................................
Seller is still blamed for the buyer's confusion, under EBAY's "misleading title" TOS.
.......................................................................
///////////////////////////////////////////
"It merely had information added to it in accordance with ebay's rules about revising auctions 12h before end."
...................................................................
Sellers can ADD to listings' description, notwithstanding the amount of time left.
........................................
/////////////////////////////////////////////
he did not provide an accurate description and is responsible for the error. He did not supply an NGC
coin, and is culpable for the damages. Collecting is another matter all together.
Too bad we can't bring back the "Tar and Feather" method of punishment.
Neg him too! POS!
Bob
<< <i>This burn is a slam-dunk for a refund from PayPal, first resort;
credit-card company, last resort. If PayPal says "no," just call your credit card company >>
The timing on this can be somewhat problematic as PP suggests that you wait 45 days following the close of the transaction, I believe, before you initiate activity in their "resolution center" to give time for self-policing, and some CC companies want you to act within 30 days, so sometimes the timing makes for a tough decision. Also, if PP knows or finds out that you went to your CC Co., they will immediately stop their investigation/resolution process, I believe.
////////////////////////////////////////
You must file your PayPal claim within 45-days of the transaction,
or you are out of the game. You should always file immediately
when you discover the problem.
ALL credit card companies are VERY flexible on time limits. Some
will open a chargeback between 180-days and 360-days after
the complained of transaction. Most CC companies tell their
customers to "let us know within 30-days," but none of them
can enforce that and they do not try to.
PayPal is VERY punitive toward customers who go to their CC
company before PayPal has "completed the dispute/claim process."
They routinely cancel the PayPal accounts of customers who go
nuclear too soon. You must allow PayPal to finish their look-see,
if you want to stay friendly with them.
I think he will be reasonable to a return if you are reasonable with your interaction with them. No one likes to be called 'names', you become defensive.
His return policy is a joke "can not be removed from original holder and/or plastic flips" yes but "if removed from original holder or packaging, if it is damaged or the seal on the packaging is broken" is obsurd and even EBAY will laugh at that one. It is in the
original holder so it is returnable in my opinion, obviously your going to open the package
Deal with the vendor via PHONE as it is a little more personal and you can discuss your problem with a little more clearity
than by Email
I also left him a little blurb via contact ...
"Sir as One vendor to another you should handle this problem quickly and discreetly as this problem is becoming VERY PUBLIC.
US 1926 NGC MS63 $2 1/2 INDIAN ( Title And Description as stated is false wether there is an 'addition' to the description or not )
Regards, Mike"
my 2c
<< <i>I need your input. Have you ever made a purchase on ebay and were shipped something different? What recourse would I have besides Paypal or filing a dispute?
Here's what happened:
I bought a gold coin, with several descriptions as a NGC, but when I got it it was a NGS. NGS was mentioned in a afterthought 4 hours before closing. The guy doesn't want to refund. What do you guys think?
Here is the coin! Thanks guys
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230076742930&rd=1&rd=1 >>
100% feedback and the other listing are correct. Type-o. The picture is clearly NGS.
SOOOOOOOOOOO, why are you doing this????
Do you like the coin?
Do you feel you were ripped off because of the holder?
Is is a matter of principal?
He made a mistake and tried to correct it before there were bids. You can go after him for TOS on Ebay and get a charge back on PayPal. All of the regulations are in favor of the buyer, basically none for the seller.
Will it make you "feel" better to go after him especially since he will not accept a return.
Ask more questions of him and yourself, but so not threaten him with negs and the likes, you'll get Naru'd for that.
"I don't like this item as much as I thought I would, but
I still want to keep it. Give me a 50% refund or I'll neg you."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Yes. You are correct. Merely stating that you will NEG
somebody absent their compliance with their listings' terms is
NOT FB-extortion, under the EBAY TOS.
Technically, you guys might be right but keep in mind that ebay's balance scale of justice tends to tip to the seller's side, especially if the seller is established. Seller fees for ebay are not without weight, if you know what I mean. Its possible for a buyer to be both swindled and Naru'd. It has happened.
A buyer should not document a threat to neg through email. If one must, do it on the phone.The possibility is high that a buyer will "blow his case" by doing a threat to neg by "writing" it.
Just trying to be helpful.
Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you. For there
is nothing hidden which will not become manifest." --- Gospel of Thomas (Lamdin translation)
once you get it and see the coin decide what to do (it maybe a 64)
you will probably take him up on his 3 day return policy -
just make sure you don't make the mistake i made once -
send it back registered or insured with delivery confirmation
you made a bidding error and are mad at the seller when you both made a mistake
(I am assuming you know what a NGC slab looks like)