Poll:Should PCGS change their policy of not giving MS70 grades for "W" mint Silver Eagles

quattrocoins · January 16, 2007 7:18AM

Should PCGS change their policy of not giving MS70 grades for "W" mint Silver Eagles, since the planchets for thes are prepared in the same manner as the planchets for proofs?

Perhaps they can change their policy before the 2007-W's come out?

quattrocoins · January 16, 2007 8:30AM

Back to the first pgae!

David, Ron, you there?

LucyBop · January 16, 2007 8:36AM

If the coin is truely a MS70, then it should be graded as so.....

quattrocoins · January 16, 2007 8:42AM

<< If the coin is truely a MS70, then it should be graded as so..... >>

I don't believe there will be "milk spot problems" with the "W" coins.

Thanks, Lucy.
I know that David respects your views.

Bear · January 16, 2007 8:53AM

What say that the 2006 W MS are resubmited a year after they were issued.

If they do not have milk spots by then, they are awarded their proper grade.

Texast · January 16, 2007 8:55AM

If PCGS is decided to never assign an MS70 grade to a 2006 W ASE then why bother with sending them to PCGS, it's like the lottery, everyone likes to dream they will be the one that gets it. If it's predetermined that they won't then the dream is gone.

Now the question, would you rather have a PCGS MS69 or an NGC MS70?

Barndog · January 16, 2007 8:57AM

if a 70 is not possible, none should be graded at all.

Bochiman · January 16, 2007 10:38AM

How about they agree to grade them up to MS70 but that no grade guarantee for the MS70 ones.
Would people like that?

LindeDad · January 16, 2007 10:42AM

Is there really a 70 coin?

newport · January 16, 2007 10:52AM

That answer is NO. IMHO there is no such thing as a Perfect Coin. Only G-d Is Perfect.

Bochiman · January 16, 2007 10:53AM

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I believe there are 70 coins (depending on magnification allowed).
That's my opinion.

newport · January 16, 2007 11:02AM

I take your point well. 70 is in the eye of the beholder.

ziggy29 · January 16, 2007 11:02AM

People fall into two camps: those who think 70 is a theoretical "perfect" grade that should never be given because nothing's perfect, and those who think the 70 can be given if a coin meets certain standards of looking flawless under X magnification. In the former case, no, it shouldn't be given; in the latter case, yes, if it meets the same standards.

Bottom line is, it should be held to the same standards as everything else, whether or not your standard allows for a 70 to be given.

coinman420 · January 16, 2007 11:10AM

i see no reason not to grade 70 if it deserves it. its obvious it did not get a 70 WITH milkspots. if you saw a MS70 with milkspots common sense tells you it turned in the holder. just my 2 cents.

Coxe · January 16, 2007 11:17AM

WTF is the difference? If they don't assign a 70 and you simply must have the top pop coins, you still have 69. I sincerely doubt any 70 is truly perfect anyway if you want to split hairs at finer and finer levels.

Bochiman · January 16, 2007 1:48PM

<< WTF is the difference? If they don't assign a 70 and you simply must have the top pop coins, you still have 69. I sincerely doubt any 70 is truly perfect anyway if you want to split hairs at finer and finer levels. >>

I don't go chasing 70 coins (sold the ones I got in the SAE 20th Annv sets to those that do), however, having held them, I COULD see a difference between them and some of the 69 coins I had as well.
So, if someone has the money, and has a certain "standard" they want, then go for it. Why do others whine about it, I never know.

All 69 coins are not created equal. A 70 should be.

robertpr · January 16, 2007 1:55PM

I do believe a light acetone bath prevents eagles from spotting post-grading. I have never heard of nor seen any eagle that has spotted, that is known to have been treated with acetone prior to slabbing.

Swampboy · January 16, 2007 2:50PM

<< I do believe a light acetone bath prevents eagles from spotting post-grading. I have never heard of nor seen any eagle that has spotted, that is known to have been treated with acetone prior to slabbing. >>

That's the last reminder I needed.
I'm off to buy some acetone tomorrow....
Thanks robertpr.

stman · January 16, 2007 3:00PM

<< since the planchets for thes are prepared in the same manner as the planchets for proofs? >>

And I have seen a reverse proof silver that ended up getting a ton of spots very quickly. Slabbed "First strike" as well. Not sure if this was your point
or your comparison, but it didn't have spots at first, within a VERY short time it was loaded.

bulloncoins · January 17, 2007 4:05AM

I think it would be to everyones benefit to let PCGS handle this on their own terms.....when they are ready to put their reputation and THEIR OWN MONEYon the line for an ms70, I think the milk spot problem will be a thing of the past. A benefit to anyone who collects these coins.

If they were to no longer back the grades they are giving out, that would hurt everyone who owns a pcgs slabbed coin. I know I would no longer want to continue collecting PCGS ASEs. I already sold everything else in a PCGS slab.

Goldeagle1981 · January 30, 2007 5:30AM

It is unfortunate that many 2006W uncirculated silver eagles seem to have the famous "milky" spots and if I receive a PCGS MS70 2006W Silver Eagle with a spot on it, I will be extremely upset. For that reason alone, I agree that PCGS should not give a "MS70" to any ASE until the U.S. Mint can get their acts together. I truly believe 80 or more % of ASE currently selling on the ebay has at least one or more milky spots on them. This is from my personal experience from returning all these spotted coins to the dealers.

Goldeagle1981 · January 30, 2007 5:32AM

Acetone is extremely rough and if you leave a residue on it without rinsing it thoroughly with distilled (or better yet deionized) water, it may corrode the coin's surface in long term.

tmot99 · January 30, 2007 5:35AM

<< if a 70 is not possible, none should be graded at all. >>

I agree with this completely. The grade is based on the condition of the coin in hand. If PCGS is afraid of what the coin will look like down the road (and I can understand why), then they shouldn't grade them at all. The grade is not based on what they grade MAY look like in the future.

basestealer · January 30, 2007 5:43AM

For a period of a hundred years, nobody broke the 4 minute mile. It was said in the media and by experts, that no human could break the 4 minute mile--that 4+ minutes was the extent of human physical capacity. That surely did a number of runner's pshyches, because nobody could crack it for what, 100 years? And when the first person did, everyone did. Now, a 4 minute mile is considered "slow" by racing standards. What this tells me, is that when we have a scale where the upper and lower extremes are merely "theoritical" and not to be taken seriously, we cheat ourselves.

In a college class we were asked to take a political opinion survey, grading ourselves from 1 to 5 on each issue, 1 being "heavily against" and 5 being "strongly for", with 2, 3, and 4 somewhere in between. It never ceases to amaze me how often humans are driven to stick to the middle of the road answers, no matter how strongly they feel about something. It was assumed, in student's minds, that "1" and "5" were off limits. The professor handed them back and told us to do it again and not to avoid answering the extremes if this is how we truly feel.

I can see the validity behind arguments that no coin is really a perfect 70, because what if down the road we come up with new technology that allows us to inspect a coin at magnifications previously unheard of? Surely we would find flaws then. So, should we grade a coin as perfect when we're inspecting it with today's standards? How many coins would have graded a 70 over 100 years ago would suddenly be a 68 today because we have better insight and magnification? My argument is this--if a coin is a 70 today, it will always be a 70. If new technology should suddenly render some coins "unperfect" under a fine tooth comb, it doesn't make them not a 70, it means the bar (the grading scale) might need to be raised to 75. That's just my opinion.

BECOKA · January 30, 2007 6:05AM

The only reason they don't grade 70 is because of the issue of milk spots forming after the fact and PCGS would be stuck paying for the coin.

I would recommend dipping all Silver Eagles before slabbing to neutralize the rinse that is causing all of this.

tmot99 · January 30, 2007 6:10AM

<< The only reason they don't grade 70 is because of the issue of milk spots forming after the fact and PCGS would be stuck paying for the coin. >>

I understand this, but that's not the idea of grading. What is the grade of the coin when they grade it? That's the grade that should be on the holder. Not what they perceive to be a possible grade 3 years or whatever down the road after the coin has changed.

If they don't want the liability of the grade, they shouldn't be grading these coins. I didn't know PCGS graded using the crystal ball method.

410a · January 30, 2007 6:11AM

Yes, anyway these companies can run for cover and they do it. Like the Young Lady in the first few posts said "If it is an MS 70 they should grade it as such" somewhat parphrased.

ziggy29 · January 30, 2007 6:15AM

Perhaps they need a new designation -- 70ASN, as in "70 As Of Now." Meaning that at the time it was slabbed it appeared to be a 70, but that it would be treated as a 69 for grade guarantee purposes.

clackamas · January 30, 2007 6:19AM

Prehaps PCGS should reconsider after a period of time has passed. Say 10 years, then look at the coins and determine if MS70 is warranted.

stockwiz · January 30, 2007 6:22AM

I like the idea of PCGS giving them a 70 if they've been slabbed for a year and show no signs of spotting... but otherwise, I agree with their policy. An MS-70 that develops spots is no longer an MS-70 and quite a number of these silver eagles seem to develop them.

I've had no problems with the raw ones I've bought on ebay so far... none of the 10 I got have noticable spots.. they are all in original mint boxes.

BAJJERFAN · January 30, 2007 10:02AM

<< I would recommend dipping all Silver Eagles before slabbing to neutralize the rinse that is causing all of this. >>

Perhaps this a service that PCGS could do for a slight additional fee.

pf70collector · January 30, 2007 10:45AM

Spotting can show up anytime I believe. I have one MS 70 ASE NGC that developed a spot after 2 years.

BECOKA · January 30, 2007 11:04AM

<< 

<< I would recommend dipping all Silver Eagles before slabbing to neutralize the rinse that is causing all of this. >>

Perhaps this a service that PCGS could do for a slight additional fee. >>

I'd pay an extra two bucks for this. If a seller buys 5000 silver eagles to sell over 2 or 3 years, has them all graded, chances are many would start to spot after 6 months and most of the investment is down the drain.

Bodie · February 3, 2007 2:40PM

There was a good remark posted earlier... Would you rather have an NGC 70 or PCGS 69 for the 2006 W Eagle? And would you stop sending them to PCGS with no hope of a 70.

Type2 · February 3, 2007 3:34PM

Why dont they put 69/70 so we can send them back in two or three years and know that the coin will be a 70 if no spots pop up, at least we will know that the coin would have been a 70. That is why we are paying to Grade the coin.Not tell us if spot my pop up some day. Spots today and next will be toneing.

BRdude · February 3, 2007 4:23PM

to me it was kind of foolish for PCGS to come out nad say they wouldn't grade them that high, they should just not do it. Since when did they have to explain why a coin didn't grade 70??

MrEureka · February 4, 2007 2:13AM

to me it was kind of foolish for PCGS to come out nad say they wouldn't grade them that high, they should just not do it. Since when did they have to explain why a coin didn't grade 70??

When and where did they state this policy?

aus3000tin · February 5, 2007 4:55AM

So the real question is:

Does the PCGS designation of MS69 mean the coin is ms69 or ms70?
I mean, excluding the fact of possible "milk spots" down the line, the overall appearance/strike of the coin would grade as ms69 or ms70?

I, personally, believe many of us with ms69 actually have some ms70 coins in hand.

Thanks,

Chris

Bear · February 5, 2007 5:11AM

Its easy to say yes, for dealers and collectors,

when the only one who has a liability will be

PCGS. I believe that If a MS coin does not show

spotting after 1-2 years, It is not going to spot.

At that point, I believe that PCGS could grade

or regrade up to MS-70.

Poll:Should PCGS change their policy of not giving MS70 grades for "W" mint Silver Eagles

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Poll:Should PCGS change their policy of not giving MS70 grades for &quot;W&quot; mint Silver Eagles

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Poll:Should PCGS change their policy of not giving MS70 grades for "W" mint Silver Eagles