Does anyone care to discuss the Frauds perpertrated on collectors in the past??
keets
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In light of all the recent and continuing difficulty that so many are having with the Platinum issues and everything else coming out of the CoinFactory™ we so lovingly know as the United States Mint, I wonder if there would be any interest in discussing some of the well documented fraud which has been perpetrated on not only coin collectors, but the American people as a whole?? The types of things I'm talking about run the gamut of time that the CoinFactory™ has been in operation. Among the easiest to start with are some of the most popularly collected issues, Morgan Silver Dollars and some of the Classic Comemmorative Half-Dollars.
Morgan Silver Dollars are to me one of the great enigmas of the hobby. They were struck, as many well know, during tense political times and as a result of some private lobbying that still takes place today. Unneeded and unwanted, they were struck by the millions and shipped overseas and primarily to bank vaults where they languished for decades. Just after WWII, hundreds of millions were melted by another perverted act of Congress and re-coined as other circulating coins while many more millions were held hostage and released over the years until the final purge of the 1960-1970 period by the GSA.. It baffles me that coins could be struck and held for release approximately 100 years and there's no screaming!!! The importance of the Morgan Silver Dollar to our hobby cannot be denied, it forms at least a part of the backbone, but the fraud and hardship on the American people and havoc it helped reign on the economy of the late 19th Century is hard to ignore. Yet the much loved design receives little scorn. The similarity between it and the current much hated Mint products are there for everyone to see if they choose to look, for me it really comes down to the Government acting pretty much the way it always has, in typical arrogant fashion.
Now what about some of those Classic Comemmoratives we cherish so much?? From my lofty perch the whole program started out with good intentions and took about 30 years before the promoters were really able to climb in bed with with Congress and the Treasury. I see the first fraud as the 1916-17 Mckinley issues and then a short time later with the onset of the roaring 20's there were more questionable comemmorations, seemingly originating with a good cause and needing promotion to make the connection backwards in history to the right date. The Factory must have seen the oppurtunity to make money so they started to stretch out the issues over several years which stunts like the Oregon Trail series!!
Think about it, the Oregon Trail comemmorative was produced from 1926-1939, almost as long as the entire Standing Liberty Quarter Dollar. By the time the mid-1930's rolled around the entire program was steeped in corruption and seemingly controlled by whoever could get the best opromotion. Coins were issued for speculative reasons, shipped to the special interest that concocted the scheme and then sold to a duped public. The whole thing finally unravelled with the Washington-Carver Series, another that fell short of the SLQ in longevity.
There are others that get me going, things like the Boone, the Spanish Trail, the Cincinnati issues, the Arkansas Series; certainly there were wonderful and deserving events which we now remember by the beautiful coins that were issued to comemmorate them, but for the most part the series was a sham and starting to collapse by the time it was halfway through it's lifespan. Special interest always seems to do that, just as it's doing that to our current program and to the current bullion related issues. No doubt that collector demand plays a part in it, so there's blame for the hobby to bear, but restraint would be a good thing and letting the Gold/Silver/Platinum industry coin there own collectible medals and bullion items would be to me a good idea. There are enough wasteful outlets for our tax dollars, do we really need to subsidize private industry by allowing them an easy source of revenue for their "precious" metal??
Well, I'm done for now. Does anyone else care to mention a particular Numismatic Hotfoot which is similar to those above? I for one would be interested in knowing how you feel or what else is out in the wonderful Numismatic history book where our beloved elected officials have defrauded us. Thanks and enjoy.
Al H.
Morgan Silver Dollars are to me one of the great enigmas of the hobby. They were struck, as many well know, during tense political times and as a result of some private lobbying that still takes place today. Unneeded and unwanted, they were struck by the millions and shipped overseas and primarily to bank vaults where they languished for decades. Just after WWII, hundreds of millions were melted by another perverted act of Congress and re-coined as other circulating coins while many more millions were held hostage and released over the years until the final purge of the 1960-1970 period by the GSA.. It baffles me that coins could be struck and held for release approximately 100 years and there's no screaming!!! The importance of the Morgan Silver Dollar to our hobby cannot be denied, it forms at least a part of the backbone, but the fraud and hardship on the American people and havoc it helped reign on the economy of the late 19th Century is hard to ignore. Yet the much loved design receives little scorn. The similarity between it and the current much hated Mint products are there for everyone to see if they choose to look, for me it really comes down to the Government acting pretty much the way it always has, in typical arrogant fashion.
Now what about some of those Classic Comemmoratives we cherish so much?? From my lofty perch the whole program started out with good intentions and took about 30 years before the promoters were really able to climb in bed with with Congress and the Treasury. I see the first fraud as the 1916-17 Mckinley issues and then a short time later with the onset of the roaring 20's there were more questionable comemmorations, seemingly originating with a good cause and needing promotion to make the connection backwards in history to the right date. The Factory must have seen the oppurtunity to make money so they started to stretch out the issues over several years which stunts like the Oregon Trail series!!
Think about it, the Oregon Trail comemmorative was produced from 1926-1939, almost as long as the entire Standing Liberty Quarter Dollar. By the time the mid-1930's rolled around the entire program was steeped in corruption and seemingly controlled by whoever could get the best opromotion. Coins were issued for speculative reasons, shipped to the special interest that concocted the scheme and then sold to a duped public. The whole thing finally unravelled with the Washington-Carver Series, another that fell short of the SLQ in longevity.There are others that get me going, things like the Boone, the Spanish Trail, the Cincinnati issues, the Arkansas Series; certainly there were wonderful and deserving events which we now remember by the beautiful coins that were issued to comemmorate them, but for the most part the series was a sham and starting to collapse by the time it was halfway through it's lifespan. Special interest always seems to do that, just as it's doing that to our current program and to the current bullion related issues. No doubt that collector demand plays a part in it, so there's blame for the hobby to bear, but restraint would be a good thing and letting the Gold/Silver/Platinum industry coin there own collectible medals and bullion items would be to me a good idea. There are enough wasteful outlets for our tax dollars, do we really need to subsidize private industry by allowing them an easy source of revenue for their "precious" metal??
Well, I'm done for now. Does anyone else care to mention a particular Numismatic Hotfoot which is similar to those above? I for one would be interested in knowing how you feel or what else is out in the wonderful Numismatic history book where our beloved elected officials have defrauded us. Thanks and enjoy.
Al H.
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Comments
design in recent years but neglect to mention that this was a common
problem right from the beginning. Congress did just about everything
but carve the designs. The older coins are simply the PC of an earlier age.
When I read the title, I thought it would have more to do with scammers, such as boiler room telemarketers that sell coins for ten times what they are worth and produce phony investment reports that show them going up in value, so the buyers are happy to buy more. Now that approaches fraud in the legal sense.
Politics has and will continue to have a huge influence on what kind of coins and paper money the nation produces. Back in 1878, the silver lobby was well-heeled and well connected and got what they wanted, a non-circulating coin made in huge numbers to prop up the price of what was becoming a common metal with limited industrial use.
<< <i>However, the current situation where cents and nickels cost more to produce than their face value is poor fiscal management. Add the paper dollar and its relative high cost to reprint and replace, vs. a circulating dollar coin and that is many millions down the drain every year. >>
On the surface that is a valid point, however that dollar or coin constantly changes hands from one person to another... then to another...and so on.
Each time there's a change of hands, it generates taxes back to the government coffers which go back to funding whatever/whoever.
So in the end that dollar or coin makes up for itself hundred or thousands of times over.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
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Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
also, the "boilermakers" you alluded to only defraud a small number of people who's money isn't taken without their consent. the types of things i'm alluding to are foisted on the entire population of the country since they are drawing money from the Federal Treasury.
<< <i>Well, I'm done for now. Does anyone else care to mention a particular Numismatic Hotfoot which is similar to those above? I for one would be interested in knowing how you feel or what else is out in the wonderful Numismatic history book where our beloved elected officials have defrauded us. Thanks and enjoy. >>
<< <i>...where our beloved elected officials have defrauded us. >>
Sure , that's easy...
And in my opinion, today's bullion coins would not be considered as "rare and unusual coins" under the exceptions to the Act found on the pdf document of the Executive order linked below:
1933 Executive Order - Govenment Confiscation of Gold
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
Another travisty that befell our hobby was the sale of the 1933 Saint. I didn't have a problem with the coin being sold, but I did have a problem with the Mint stepping in and demanding the $20.00 to "Monitize the coin". Another perfect example of our government's arrogance. Maybe I am wrong here, but when did it become the descretion of the Secret Service to determine it was wrong to have that coin, but ok for people to have other questionable coins in thier collection? Only when the coin's sale is worth a certain dollar value do they step in and make themselves known. My two cents worth. Great thread though. makes people think.....I hope so anyway.
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