Buying coins from Coin World advertizers - Seeking advice

Barbercoin · January 14, 2007 1:00AM

I recently bought two different coins from two different dealers who advertized in Coin World. I took them at their grade and bought coins sight unseen. Both coins were disappointing.

Before I do this again, what are your comments? Is there hope or am I just unlucky?

PS: I realize attending coin shows is probably the best practice, but I don't get the chance to. do this. So, I try other venues: Ebay, Heritage, DLRC, dealer websites, etc. This does not seem to provide enough choices for my series.

Thanks,

Barbercoin

PerryHall · January 14, 2007 1:02AM

Stick with top tier slabs and you should have fewer problems. Also, make sure there is a return privalage.

sTONER · January 14, 2007 1:13AM

don,t do it again, theres been quite a few threads on coin world and NN advertisers,,

compromonedas · January 14, 2007 1:19AM

barbercoin, do a search for Coin World here in the coin forum and read the threads

Keith

WinPitcher · January 14, 2007 1:25AM

I once bought a coin from a CW advertizer and I too was disapointed.

I had to jump thru all types of hoops to get my money back.

The seller at that time.............20 years ago was fort worth coin and jewlery exchange.

It is sad when an industry is made up of mostly crooks or 'operators' like a previous thread mentioned them as. Another sad thing is that you can ask all the right questions and still be blatantly lied to. Now please do not bite my head off I know that the hobby also has many fine dealers too.

For instance the time 3 years ago when i bought a 20.00 gold coin from Bowers and Merena. It was bought off the website. It was stated as certified ngc ms 60. The coin arrived and again i was Disapointed! Certified? It was a RAW coin. I emailed back and forth with some schmuck (took 3 or 4 emails for the guy to understand what my plight was). Then he advised me it was most prolly a mistake. No crap i thought, yeah i said I always seem to be the guy that gets these mistakes. I then asked him if I could exchange it and asked him about coin A...sold...B....sold etc etc etc So back it went. Cost of doing business with them? 20.00 in postage.

left a very bad taste in my mouth as they were supposed to be the top notch dealers.

So I settled on buying from an ebay auction. I ended up with an Anacs coin and a raw coin from a dealer. I asked before bidding if the raw coin was ever cleaned. His answer NO. Coin in hand? CLEANED! I emailed him and reminded him that he said it was not cleaned. His reply? He was sure it wasn't. He is a seller of Gold coins I reminded him! I kept the POS cuz I was able to get it at basically melt at the time. Gold was at 400.00 then.

End of rant.

Steve

Barndog · January 14, 2007 1:26AM

some advertisers in Coin World are reputable, some are not. Search for specific dealer names in threads on this forum to learn more. For example, Kern and Greer and Beymer will generally satisfy you...some notable multi-page, weekly advertisers will not.

claychaser · January 14, 2007 1:28AM

Find some nice coin shows instead and look up dealers who post on these forums. If they don't have the coins you are looking for, they would likely know who does and point you in a good direction.

Barbercoin · January 14, 2007 1:35AM

I'm beginning to see a little faith building here among the members. I'm definitely an outsider and will need to feel this forum out before being totally comfortable.

I have checked out many of the dealer websites and liked what I've ssen. Some of the inventories are amazing.

In another thread I started, I got some great advice.

Thanks

ram1946 · January 14, 2007 1:52AM

It's gotten to the point with CW advertising that I seriously doubt I'll renew my subscription. While I've not bought anything directly from a CW ad in years, the clutter of hyped coins takes away from the enjoyment of the publication. People are coming up with their own grading standards (stars, EAs, 1-10, etc) that it borders on the ridiculous. Combine the clearly mis-leading ads (IMO) with the banter about Mint delivery times that proliferate the letters to the editor section and my name will soon be on the side of an ex-subscriber. The sellers I frequent are known, reputable dealers, some of whom compete with the "full-pagers" in every issue. I can't envision needing an industry publication to find a solid seller. As for the educational content (which I do value), this forum provides a more than satisfactory avenue to listen and learn.

Rodius · January 14, 2007 1:59AM

I too had a bad experience from a CW advertiser, one of the big ads, you know the ones that are 4 pages. Even with my untrained eye I could clearly see that the Barber Dime was EF cleaned. I was able to return it, but I dropped out of the hobby until the age of computers came around.

Barbercoin · January 14, 2007 2:01AM

Well, then I'm thrilled that I found you guys.

About four years ago, I became a re-energized collected. I don't know why, but I'm more determined now. My passion is XF Barber Quarters.

I crave information about my dear hobby. I've been a subscriber for about three years. CW is full of garbage, but occasionally I run across an article that fills my need: historical trivia, searching through rolls, hoard finds, etc. However, now I'm hesitant about buying from any of the advertizers.

Is there another periodical any better?

John
(Ret) Army

Tbar · January 14, 2007 2:17AM

You may want to try Harlan J Berk online,....I know alot of people have had good results with them and they have a large range of grades, and a pretty good inventory.

I have bought a couple coins from them and thier grading seems pretty conservative.

RedTiger · January 14, 2007 3:05AM

There are a couple of common mistakes newer collectors make when buying from magazine ads.

1) Buying the lowest priced coin for a given grade. This goes triple if the coin is raw. Santa Claus does not advertise in the magazines, often shopping for the lowest price results in getting even less than what is paid for.

2) Paying large premiums for generic coins just because a big name dealer is selling them. Some dealers charge 30% to 50% above what coins might typically sell for at a coin show. Sometimes it is worth it. Sometimes not. A collector will almost never get that premium back if the coin is common, certainly not if selling to a dealer.

The time for buying expensive coins from a one line listing in a magazine is past. Most dealers have websites, with pictures.

DaveG · January 14, 2007 3:48AM

Barbercoin,

Well, I can understand why you're having such a hard time, considering the series you've chosen! (XF Barber quarters)

I'm not a Barber guy, but there are Barber experts who are members here. (For example, are you in touch with TomB?)

Have you joined the BCCS? - their members may be a better source for you than a "generalist" dealer.

sinin1 · January 14, 2007 5:06AM

some sell alot of sliders and call them BU

Coast-to-Coast comes to mind

some dealers are definitely top tier

many will have websites with pictures

PerryHall · January 14, 2007 6:21AM

The dealers carrying primarily top tier slabs are mostly high quality dealers. The ones with multi-page weekly ads with mostly raw coins shold be avoided---caveat emptor.

Barry · January 14, 2007 6:32AM

John,
Coin World (and numismatics) is full of scammers. Before buying from a dealer, go to the search feature on this forum and type in their name. Odds are they've been discussed many times before. There's a wealth of information in the forum archives.

ILikeMercs · January 14, 2007 6:38AM

<< <i>John,
Coin World (and numismatics) is full of scammers. Before buying from a dealer, go to the search feature on this forum and type in their name. Odds are they've been discussed many times before. There's a wealth of information in the forum archives. >>

Barry, your sigline thingy needs to learn how to spell, it's INCOMPETENT

walkerman · January 14, 2007 7:05AM

Stop and consider how much those two page advertisers spend on adds every week. It's around $3000 a pop or $150,000 per year. To believe that any of them could buy enough quality coins at a cheap enough price and sell them at bargain prices to cover that and other overhead is at the best wishful thinking.
There have been so many complaints over the years of cleaned coins, slider coins sold for unc, problem coins etc sold by not just one but just about all of these mass marketers.
I have followed one particular ad by one of these companies that advertises a lot on the back of Coin world ( no, it's not Delaware valley). I have read for over 15 years about the "walker bonanza". How an old guy right there in their home town walked in with his lifetime accumulation of walkers and to make a long story short they are selling them by the handful. Wow! that was some accumulation or else they are having a terrible time getting rid of them. Watch for this ad. It's recycled about every three months.
Does any one have faith in the accuracy of the rest of this company's ads?
There are so many reputable dealers, both members of this forum and not, that I can't imagine any one needing to patronize these people.
I personally know many more good honest dealers than I do sleazebags.
Most all I know will honor a return policy with no hassle. This is mostly because they are handling coins of such quality that they will have no problem reselling them to satisfied customers.
I would never buy from any dealer or seller on the internet who would not offer a return policy. Period! I also don't expect Tiffany coins at Walmart prices. That's my rant for the day.

The priceless ingredient in any coin transaction is the integrity of the dealer.

David J Weygant Rare Coins

Barry · January 14, 2007 7:57AM

Barry, your sigline thingy needs to learn how to spell, it's INCOMPETENT

Yes, I know. I "borrowed" it from another board, so I can't edit it. I still like it, and it helps make it easy for me to find my own posts within a thread.

roadrunner · January 14, 2007 8:30AM

There's not much to be found in CW ads. Anything good would normally be sold immediately to the first states getting the magazine. Items are often already listed on the web or available at shows and would once again be long gone.

Concentrating on magazines for coins, is a risky game with very few winners. Odds are heavily stacked against you. You have a much higher chance if you work with some specialist dealers or collectors, and attend shows and auctions.

roadrunner

Barndog · January 14, 2007 8:31AM

<< <i>Stop and consider how much those two page advertisers spend on adds every week. It's around $3000 a pop or $150,000 per year. To believe that any of them could buy enough quality coins at a cheap enough price and sell them at bargain prices to cover that and other overhead is at the best wishful thinking. >>

ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

there are exceptions -- J. Kern comes to mind (one week is US, the next Foreign/Ancient)

granpagraf · January 14, 2007 8:33AM

American Bullion and Coin in Flagstaff, Arizona is a top notch dealer! His name is Michael Higdon and after He ships the coins He calls up to see if You like the coins and talks as if We knew each other for years!
I have got alot of great deals on slabbed coins (Slabbed coins is all He sells!).
He has a website, just go to google adn type in "American Bullion and Coin and it should take You right to His site!
granpagraf

cladking · January 14, 2007 8:36AM

Don't overlook the classified advertisers. A lot of these guys are pretty
good. Start with smaller trades until you know them. The same applies
to the big advertisers though. It's expensive and time consuming to re-
turn coins so start with little stuff where grading isn't as important so you
have a feel for the grading and how they do business. Some of these
guys are really good and some are looking for big profits quick.

PrivateCoinCollector · January 14, 2007 8:40AM

<< <i>I recently bought two different coins from two different dealers who advertized in Coin World. I took them at their grade and bought coins sight unseen. Both coins were disappointing.

Before I do this again, what are your comments? Is there hope or am I just unlucky?

PS: I realize attending coin shows is probably the best practice, but I don't get the chance to. do this. So, I try other venues: Ebay, Heritage, DLRC, dealer websites, etc. This does not seem to provide enough choices for my series.

Thanks,

Barbercoin >>

I seldom buy many coins sight unseen as there is no difference in the prepensity to overstate US vs. World. I just can't imagine doing it with World Coins.

ARCO · January 14, 2007 8:41AM

There is nothing inherently wrong with buying sight unseen in magazine ads, if...IF, you are dealing with reputable dealers with good return privileges. What you will most likely experience is a lot of disappointment receiving coins that are cleaned and overgraded.

In this internet age, there are just too many venues to peruse coins WITH photos to settle for coin purchases sight unseen. However, with return privileges, you can return a coin that does not suit you and start over. Just be prepared to make oodles of visits to the post office returning the majority of coins.

Tyler

rec78 · January 14, 2007 9:07AM

John, you pick a tough series to find in XF. Most barber series coins are tough in XF. You have to do a lot of searching to find just the right coin for some issues. I suggest you go to some big shows. I do not know who the major dealers are for barbers but i am sure there are some. You have to keep searching.

Check Heritage,eBAy,DLRC,Teaparty,etc. If and when you get a complete set of barber quarters in XF condition you will have a most unique collection. It is tough. You just have to hang in there until the right pieces come along.

You could even check the BST board here from time to time. We have one member here that is putting together a PCGS XF45 set of barber halves. I dont know how long he has been at it but he still needs about 6 more to complete his set. While it is amazing easy to get a barber quarter in XF45 for type, it is super hard to put together a date and mintmark set in strict XF45 (assuming that you want XF45). Try a wanted ad on the BST forum. The thrill is in the hunt.

Bob

Barbercoin · January 14, 2007 10:33AM

Bob,

Believe it or not, I frequent these websites often. Nothing so far...... The hunt is losing its thrill.

I guess I'll have to make the a journey and visit one of the bigger shows.

Your suggestion to post an ad on the BTS board sounds good. After I get my feet wet around here, I might give it a go.

Thanks.

John

Coxe · January 14, 2007 10:45AM

There is a definite publication latency for those ads. No coin that is really nice should be in them as it would be expected to likely sell in the interim period. The coins that do appear (plus any subsequent sales based on purchases) have to pay for the ads. Bargains and nice coins would not be my expectation there at all. If you are looking for a coin, perhaps avoid all of the overhead issues and look on the BST forum for offered sales and even post a request to buy. Never know, another collector might have a well-chosen duplicate of a recently upgraded specimen to sell very reasonably.

earlygoldnut · January 14, 2007 12:23PM

John,
"Coin World (and numismatics) is full of scammers."

This very general and very negative statement is is a bunch of crap. It is known fact that most of the negative threads regading those two publications have everything to do with people being unhappy with sellers of raw coins. It is also a known fact that the pages of Coin World and Numi News have plenty of ads from just about every major dealer in the country, at least those of us who can afford to advertise there.

Your statement seems to be meant to scare people so maybe you can drum up some business. What page is your ad on again?

Barbercoin · January 14, 2007 1:55PM

Your slam seems to be directed at me. I don't even have any ads, nor do I sell coins (maybe two or three on Ebay).

The words you have in quotes, about scammers actually came from another member giving me advice. Please review the thread.

I was just looking for some help.

rec78 · January 14, 2007 5:08PM

Here is Brian Greer's website
He is good with grading. However he does not have pics on the website. Jack Beymer is another good source for barbers but again no pics. Best to go to a big show such as Baltimore or Long Beach. I do not know where you are so i can't tell you what shows are close to you. These are two dealers that seem to have decent barber stock at times. Bob

earlygoldnut · January 15, 2007 12:15AM

Your slam seems to be directed at me.

John- you did not make that post - I know that

Barbercoin · January 15, 2007 12:44AM

Laura,

Thanks for your advice. I guess many members probably read about my initial actions and say "Why would anyone buy coins sight unseen?" And looking back at my decision, it does appear to be stupid, but then again it was an honest mistake. Although I spent 20+ years in the Army, and have been around the block "a couple of times", I am fairly naive when it comes to buying coins from strangers. Maybe I have too much faith in people.

The basis for my actions was; a dealer who spends a lot of money advertizing in CW HAS TO BE TOTALLY REPUTABLE or their money would be wasted on the "actual sale" end of the process. In other words, if (less than honorable) dealers make hundreds of bad deals, then they would wear out their welcome and go "belly-up". That's just my marketing degree thinking, sorry.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my reasoning.

Barbercoin

RedTiger · January 15, 2007 2:15AM

<< <i>....

The basis for my actions was; a dealer who spends a lot of money advertizing in CW HAS TO BE TOTALLY REPUTABLE or their money would be wasted on the "actual sale" end of the process. In other words, if (less than honorable) dealers make hundreds of bad deals, then they would wear out their welcome and go "belly-up". That's just my marketing degree thinking, sorry.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my reasoning.

Barbercoin >>

It is almost the opposite. The big advertisers have to pay for their ads some how. A dealer with similar coins but no big ads that sells at shows has much lower overhead. There is no special pipeline for inventory that magazine dealers have. In fact, if they don't go to shows, they are out of the loop for much of the best inventory.

Think about marketing, any company that spends a large amount on advertising is going to have to make that money back. Usually it is in higher prices or lower quality, and both of these are epidemic for the big magazine advertisers. The customers pay for the ads. I'd say 70% or more of the big ads are by dealers are in one of the camps. Those that make a large part of their money by selling overgraded, or low end certified coins, or if they sell quality coins, they are overpriced by 25% or more, often much more.

For a collector looking for hard to find coins, the magazines are perhaps the last place I would suggest looking. My opinion is that the magazine ads are a decent place to find recent mint products, or bullion. Most other stuff can be found at comparable or better prices AND better or comparable quality at shows or on the Internet.

earlygoldnut · January 15, 2007 4:18AM

"There is no special pipeline for inventory that magazine dealers have. "

The availability of nice or special coins directly relates to the relationships a dealer has fostered over the years and how he/she has conducted themselves over the course of those years.

"In fact, if they don't go to shows, they are out of the loop for much of the best inventory."

This is way off base, it's your relationships with others in the industry that determines whether or not you are in the loop. Some of the best coins available at a show never see the light of day at a show because they get shipped from the show to other dealers who may not be there but are "in the loop".

Buying coins from Coin World advertizers - Seeking advice

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