Who Were the Best Dead Ball Era (1900-1919) Players at Each Position?

Blackborder · January 13, 2007 3:19AM

Essentially, lets build a dead ball era fantasy team and why you'd pick them. The players can have played past the era but must have spent the majority of their career in the 1900-1919 range, i.e. although Babe Ruth broke into the majors in 1914, he is not a dead ball era player.

I'll start off with this: Christy Mathewson as pitcher. Walter Johnson and Cy Young had more wins, and Walter Johnson had an impresive 3000+ strikeouts, the only non living player to have reached that goal, but I'm picking "Matty" on the statistic that counts most in my opinion, winning percentage. At .665, no one comes close. Matty was the greatest dead ball era pitcher and possibly the greatest pitcher of all time.

Ladder7 · January 13, 2007 4:04AM

1st; Hal Chase

Stone193 · January 13, 2007 4:08AM

SS - Honus Wagner

edit: didn't have time to say why:

In a career that spanned 21 seasons (1897-1917), he led the National League in batting average eight times, and in RBI and stolen bases five times each.

He had a lifetime BA of .327. Many have considered him one of the top players of all time. John McGraw considered him the best he had ever seen play the game. He also felt Honus could have excelled at other positions - a rare tribute IMO.

effe · January 13, 2007 4:15AM

2nd, Nap Lajoie

MikeyLikesIt · January 13, 2007 4:38AM

According to Bill James, from the Historical Baseball Abstract:

C - Chief Meyers
1B - Ed Konetchy
2B - Eddie Collins
3B - Homerun Baker
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Joe Jackson
CF - Tris Speaker
RF - Ty Cobb

RHP - Walter Johnson
RHP - Pete Alexander
RHP - Christy Matthewson
LHP - Hippo Vaughn

calaban7 · January 13, 2007 4:48AM

Great topic. For starting pither, I'd have to go with the " Big Train " Walter Johson. Won a ton of games on mostly crappy teams. A fact that I have never heard brought up about him is in 1913 , it was the 1st and only time in major league history that a picture had the Highest (K's / 9 innings ) in league, Lowest ( Hits / 9 Innings ) and Lowest ( Walks / 9 Inning ) all in the same season . Its the only time in history that it has occured. If he would've pitched on a contending team , with normal batting support, he would've won a frightining amount of games.

For catching--- Bresnahan. At the other extreme , please pull up Bill Bergen. some of the scariest stats I've ever seen.

For 1B --- Frank Chance

2B---- Eddie Collins or Nap Lajoie

SS-- Honus Wagner

3B----Frank " The Big HOME RUN " Baker and ( the Pete Rose or Bill Clinton of his day ) Heinie Zimmerman

Lf--Zach Wheat or Sherry Magee or Joe Jackson

Cf---The 1st really hated ball player , John Rocker ,, I mean TY Cobb or Mike Donlin

Rf--Sam Crawford or Tris Speaker

Let the debating begin, Sonny

Stone193 · January 13, 2007 4:55AM

Mike and Calaban

I'm not tryin to be the post police but I think the spirit was to just pick one position and each contributor adds a player to the team.

mike

calaban7 · January 13, 2007 5:00AM

Thanks, I'm new to this, I must have missed the rules along the way. I'll try to do better in the future, Sonny

bigfische · January 13, 2007 5:01AM

Calaban what did you mean by Bergan's stats being scary? Like scary good? Im a little confused.

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1901 23 CIN NL 87 308 15 55 6 4 1 17 2 8 .179 .199 .234 29 72 10 0
1902 24 CIN NL 89 322 19 58 8 3 0 36 2 14 .180 .214 .224 30 72 6 0
1903 25 CIN NL 58 207 21 47 4 2 0 19 2 7 .227 .252 .266 41 55 4 0
1904 26 BRO NL 96 329 17 60 4 2 0 12 3 9 .182 .204 .207 28 68 9 0
1905 27 BRO NL 79 247 12 47 3 2 0 22 4 7 .190 .213 .219 32 54 11 0
1906 28 BRO NL 103 353 9 56 3 3 0 19 2 7 .159 .175 .184 16 65 12 0
1907 29 BRO NL 51 138 2 22 3 0 0 14 1 1 .159 .165 .181 12 25 4 0
1908 30 BRO NL 99 302 8 53 8 2 0 15 1 5 .175 .189 .215 31 65 13 0
1909 31 BRO NL 112 346 16 48 1 1 1 15 4 10 .139 .163 .156 1 54 16 0
1910 32 BRO NL 89 249 11 40 2 1 0 14 0 6 39 .161 .180 .177 6 44 18 0
1911 33 BRO NL 84 227 8 30 3 1 0 10 2 14 42 .132 .183 .154 -4 35 9 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
11 Seasons 947 3028 138 516 45 21 2 193 23 0 88 81 .170 .194 .201 20 609 112 0 0 0 0
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+

*Edited to remove comment about the years played*

Stone193 · January 13, 2007 5:05AM

<< <i>Thanks, I'm new to this, I must have missed the rules along the way. I'll try to do better in the future, Sonny >>

Sonny
I didn't mean for you to have to apologize or anything.

The first 3 posters gave one position - the flow had been established.

"I" apologize for putting you guys on the spot - didn't mean to do that.

mike

calaban7 · January 13, 2007 5:48AM

Bill Bergen : I hope we're kidding here. Where do I begin? According to SABR , for players that have batted over 2,500 times Bergens average of .170 is no where near the second worse at .210. In 1909 , 346 at bats (1 ) Double , (1 ) triple , (1 ) homerun, batted .139 with 15 rbi's . This is better than what I may have done, but I think he might have been considered a desent hitter , if he were a pitcher. In 11 years he had I think 1 year that he batted above .190 .
I must add , I believe he must have an unbelievable fielder or handlers of pitchers to have been kept on the roster for that long. Feel free to go to Retrosheet .org , punch up Bill Bergen, there's a great read by SABR. thanks,Sonny

bigfische · January 13, 2007 5:55AM

Thats what i thought you meant by that. For a second i couldnt tell if you thought his stats were good or not. Were on the same page.

thesplendidsplinter · January 13, 2007 6:30AM

That guy with no shoes is my right fielder

MikeyLikesIt · January 13, 2007 6:53AM

<< <i>Mike and Calaban

I'm not tryin to be the post police but I think the spirit was to just pick one position and each contributor adds a player to the team.

mike >>

Fair enough.

Ty Cobb - CF

MikeyLikesIt · January 13, 2007 6:57AM

And just to keep the conversation going, I'm not sure I'd pick Bresnahan at Catcher - shin guard inventor or not.

Blackborder · January 13, 2007 6:59AM

<< <i>Great topic. For starting pither, I'd have to go with the " Big Train " Walter Johson. Won a ton of games on mostly crappy teams. A fact that I have never heard brought up about him is in 1913 , it was the 1st and only time in major league history that a picture had the Highest (K's / 9 innings ) in league, Lowest ( Hits / 9 Innings ) and Lowest ( Walks / 9 Inning ) all in the same season . Its the only time in history that it has occured. If he would've pitched on a contending team , with normal batting support, he would've won a frightining amount of games. >>

You have a valid point. I almost chose Johnson for pitcher instead of Matty. It is interesting to speculate what he could have done if he wasn't stuck on the dreadful Senators teams of the era. I think it's more than noteworthy that he's the only 3000+ strike out pitcher who isn't still living.

Who Were the Best Dead Ball Era (1900-1919) Players at Each Position?

Comments